The Gate

Good.

Now, we might say, 'I tapped the finger', or 'the finger tapped by itself', or 'Life happens', or 'Something made the finger tap'.

Lots of options.

You seem to see that an 'I' is made-up, so in this 'whodunnit', 'I' was not in the building.

Also, notice the precision of the tapping, and all movement. Nothing is out of step. Apart from my football team's poor early form. :)

You have seen clearly that tapping and stopping is something you can do. Question is: what is the nature of you?

Are you static? Are you an idea? Are you awareness? Are you silence? Are you anything at all?

Yet, if we say you stopped tapping, then you points to something.

If you does point to something, and 'I' is made up, what then?

Ponder on this and share what shows up.

Takk!
John

Your football team asskicks my team any day of the week, month or year, except 1 day a very long, long, long time ago... :)

You have seen clearly that tapping and stopping is something you can do. Question is: what is the nature of you?
That is a hard question to answer...

Are you static? Are you an idea? Are you awareness? Are you silence? Are you anything at all?
Yes and no... All words you mention are good descriptions or pointers to my nature, but at the same time not. I am nothing and this nothing that I am is everything.

Yet, if we say you stopped tapping, then you points to something.
Yes.

If you does point to something, and 'I' is made up, what then?
Then I is the made up word/idea that points to that that nothing which is everything.
Or did I miss the question completely? :D

Thanks,
Andy

Ok. All good. :)

Well, to make a long story short:
I continued to look for "me" and when I ask "Who am I?" the answer is "me", then I ask "Who is this me?" Then there is silence.
So I commanded "SHOW YOURSELF, ME!" still only silence....
My logical conclusion is that "I" am this silence... this presense.... this awareness that is in the silence.
So I am nothing (awareness/presense/silence is no thing, hence nothing)...
This is what I currently believe, but since I do not live this beliefe I am not sure.
Can you help me find out please, or point me in the right direction?

What is it you suppose there is to be sure about?

What do you not experience now, that you suppose being sure will bring about?

What is missing?

Tusen takk,
John

What is it you suppose there is to be sure about?
The same comviction there is about my current view... I know that I am not I, but I have the experience of being an I and I do not do or think in any particular way to acheive this view.
For sure I am attached to my ego, and I want the same sureness that I am not I.

What do you not experience now, that you suppose being sure will bring about?
Nothing really, its more about the intensity of the reality/main focus of things.... I still "live in mye head" so to speach.

What is missing?
Nothing is missing as they say, I just cant make it "click" into my reality - like an incomplete brainwash....
I know all these things, but they are only learned knowledge, not lived knowledge. It's like my "knowledge" is based on theory which has no practical application when it comes down to it, maybe except walking around as a mindless slave...

I am nothing, I can do nothing, even though there are many problems in my life, they are not real because nothing is real, and even though the world comes from me, I can do nothing but accept everything that happens, because I am nobody and I can not do anything..... because nothing is real; nothing happens and nobody are real - yet here we are....

If I believed this was true I would experience it, yet reality shows the oposite.
Yes, we can analyze and say there is no I, but what we get is a theoretical understanding and belief.
Have you tested this out to the fullest?
I mean; You do not exist as a human being, your human being exists in your world, and everything and everyone in that world is you/in your awareness....
If you focus your attention on one of your I's in Australia, you can get to know everything that individual I experiences right here and now. You can take note of some facts, then turn your focus back to the "John" I and check if what you noticed as an Australian I is accurate or just fantasy.

If I got this liberation thing correct, what I just described is not possible, and to believe it is as silly as believeing in santa claus.... Unless, ofcourse, you know about out-of-body experiences and remote viewing where what I just described is absolutly possible....

If my assumptions are correct, isn't it a bit strange that you can "prove" somthing in practical application by a perspective which is supposed to be false, but you are not able to prove a perspective that is supposedly true?
To me this makes no sense, hence my doubs and stuckness.

Thanks,
Andy

Hi Andy,

What is it you suppose there is to be sure about?
The same comviction there is about my current view... I know that I am not I, but I have the experience of being an I and I do not do or think in any particular way to acheive this view.
For sure I am attached to my ego, and I want the same sureness that I am not I.

This is helpful, thank you.
Because everyone uses terms in different ways, can you give a few examples from everyday life where you might say, 'The ego is right there."

What do you not experience now, that you suppose being sure will bring about?
Nothing really, its more about the intensity of the reality/main focus of things.... I still "live in mye head" so to speach.

Ok, got it.

What is missing?
Nothing is missing as they say, I just cant make it "click" into my reality - like an incomplete brainwash....
I know all these things, but they are only learned knowledge, not lived knowledge. It's like my "knowledge" is based on theory which has no practical application when it comes down to it, maybe except walking around as a mindless slave...

Ok. Well, this in an inquiry, not an installation. :) Whereas a brainwash would be to inculcate beliefs to such an extent that they are deemed true, and therefore 'become your lived reality', this is NOT what happens here. But if that's what you're looking for, the world is full of such places.

Here we question all beliefs, ideas, assumptions deemed true. Not question in the sense of 'that's false'. But question the 'deemed true' bit. All beliefs, ideas, assumptions are thoughts ABOUT life, a map, which you'll know from NHR. :) So, rather than believe what we imagine is there, we set side the idea and LOOK AGAIN, AFRESH.

I am nothing, I can do nothing, even though there are many problems in my life, they are not real because nothing is real, and even though the world comes from me, I can do nothing but accept everything that happens, because I am nobody and I can not do anything..... because nothing is real; nothing happens and nobody are real - yet here we are....

See, this whole 'Nothing is real' thing is a bunch of ideas.

First thing, is not to ask are they true or false, but see CLEARLY for what they are. Yes?

If I believed this was true I would experience it, yet reality shows the oposite.
Yes, we can analyze and say there is no I, but what we get is a theoretical understanding and belief.
Have you tested this out to the fullest?
I mean; You do not exist as a human being, your human being exists in your world, and everything and everyone in that world is you/in your awareness....
If you focus your attention on one of your I's in Australia, you can get to know everything that individual I experiences right here and now. You can take note of some facts, then turn your focus back to the "John" I and check if what you noticed as an Australian I is accurate or just fantasy.

Courses in Remote Viewing are available. :D

If I got this liberation thing correct, what I just described is not possible, and to believe it is as silly as believeing in santa claus.... Unless, ofcourse, you know about out-of-body experiences and remote viewing where what I just described is absolutly possible....

Andy, our focus here is this: seeing more clearly the nature of what we call, 'Me', "I', 'self', 'myself' etc. Of course, at a certain point we deem that we ARE this 'me', the one and the same.

To see more clearly what is happening, then its helpful to be very clearly on what in EVERYDAY EXPERIENCE, I am calling 'Me.

If my assumptions are correct, isn't it a bit strange that you can "prove" somthing in practical application by a perspective which is supposed to be false, but you are not able to prove a perspective that is supposedly true?
To me this makes no sense, hence my doubs and stuckness.

Again, not about true or false. Nothing to be proven here. Just looking. Setting aside presuppositions, and looking again, afresh.

Takk,
John

Thanks for your reply! :)

can you give a few examples from everyday life where you might say, 'The ego is right there
No, the ego is just a consept, an idea, not something physical, so nothing can point directly at the ego. Its like thoghts and ideas, not refering to any physical object. The closest I can do is point at my head and say "ego", but that's as accurate as the boss of an construcion company saying "I built this skyskraper" when he only ordered a bunch of workers to do their job.

Ok. Well, this in an inquiry, not an installation.
Sorry, I'm not sure what an "installation" is.

Here we question all beliefs, ideas, assumptions deemed true. Not question in the sense of 'that's false'. But question the 'deemed true' bit. All beliefs, ideas, assumptions are thoughts ABOUT life, a map, which you'll know from NHR. :) So, rather than believe what we imagine is there, we set side the idea and LOOK AGAIN, AFRESH.
Ok, but do we really need to look to see this?
I, me, mine, ego - they are all words pointing to something real; either the physical person or the mental person (if you can say that as a way of illustrating). When I say "I am walking down the street" I am refering to my physical body and mental body walking down the street. Everybody can see that it is not an I walking, its self evident. Everybody knows that I is a word we use to communicate, just as everybody know they are not their names.

If I ask "Who are you?" I know that you are not a lion or a tiger; I see that you are a humanbeing so what I mean when I ask "who are you?" is what's your name?
Lets say I start talking like we do here when you ask me "who are you?"
My reply: "I am nobody"¨
You: "who is nobody?"¨
My reply: "Nobody is nothing. I am, full stopp."
You: Ok, so you don't want to tell me your name!"
Me: "I have no name, so how can I tell it?"
You: "You're not for real!"
My reply: "You got it upside down man; I AM is the only "thing" that is real, YOU, on the other hand, are not real."
I can not walk around talking like that without getting locked in to the madhouse :D

First thing, is not to ask are they true or false, but see CLEARLY for what they are. Yes?
What is the diffence? If you're going to look at something and see clearly what it is, aren't you looking at something true?

Courses in Remote Viewing are available. :D
I know, also courses in out of body travel and Lucid Dreaming are availeble, but that is not the point.
Point being; Remote viewing (and the other things mentioned) can be verrified.
You can have an idea, check out the "facts" with RV, then move over and verify these facts in your physical body.
Then you can make a claim and say "This is what I have proved and this is how I proved it."
"I can move my consiousness anywhere and witness what is going on, if I only was a physical body, this would be impossible."
So the claim, or observation that you can move around in the non physical is something that everybody that wants to can try out for them self and verify.
Can the same be done about the things we are talking about here?
If I am not my fysical body, why can I not move outside of it? If I believe I am both the body and the mind; I can check if this is true by moving my awarness outside my physical body and look - but for some strange reason NOT when I believe I am not a body? Do you understand the "two toung-problem" here?
If I look and my ideas of what I see makes sense - all good, no problem.
But if I look and my ideas of what I see makes no sens; problems, don't understand, something is wrong here...

As long as I am "stuck" in my body, I am doomed to idetify with it.
I do NOT expect a fullblown out of body experience, but I do expect a loosening of the "grip" my current realityview holds on my mind. Its hard to explain what I mean, because we are talking about things we don't have words to describe.
But you should know, you've been here and if there was no difference between you and me, we would not be having this conversation. So you know that at some point, something inside you "clicked" and your conviction changed.

To see more clearly what is happening, then its helpful to be very clearly on what in EVERYDAY EXPERIENCE, I am calling 'Me.
Ok, what I call "me" is my presens, my presense is always where I am, it's an open secret ;)

Again, not about true or false. Nothing to be proven here. Just looking. Setting aside presuppositions, and looking again, afresh.
Makes no sens.... If it is not about true or fals, true identity vs false identity, then why are we looking?
Whats the point in pondering this deep issue, if its only for entertaining puposes?
Whats the point of looking if you don't know if what you see is true or false?
You don't have to answer these questions, they are only questions I ask my self.

Thanks for your help and patiense!
Andy

can you give a few examples from everyday life where you might say, 'The ego is right there
No, the ego is just a consept, an idea, not something physical, so nothing can point directly at the ego. Its like thoghts and ideas, not refering to any physical object. The closest I can do is point at my head and say "ego", but that's as accurate as the boss of an construcion company saying "I built this skyskraper" when he only ordered a bunch of workers to do their job.

There is certainly a concept of 'ego'. But you also say, "For sure I am attached to my ego".

So, what is it that you feel attached to?
How do you experience it, in an everyday way?

Takk,
John

Thanks for your reply John!

So, what is it that you feel attached to?
This sense of "me" in "my" body, separate from everything and everyone.

How do you experience it, in an everyday way?
You are asking me somthing which for me is impossible to describe.
Like when I'm typing to you now. "I" am here now, typing these letters.
I see what I type, I type what I think, I have the experience of experienceing all these things, all the time...
So it feels like I am an experiencer, or observer, or awareness, or presens.... Walking around in my body....
And I feel all alone and separate from everything and everyone.

Thanks,
Andy

Thanks for your reply John!

So, what is it that you feel attached to?
This sense of "me" in "my" body, separate from everything and everyone.

How do you experience it, in an everyday way?
You are asking me somthing which for me is impossible to describe.
Like when I'm typing to you now. "I" am here now, typing these letters.
I see what I type, I type what I think, I have the experience of experienceing all these things, all the time...
So it feels like I am an experiencer, or observer, or awareness, or presens.... Walking around in my body....
And I feel all alone and separate from everything and everyone.

Ok, thank you for the clarity. This is good.

Let's hold this sense of "me". Its a beautiful experience really. Yes, I know we have ideas about it :) and what it means, what it represents, what it is and so on, but still, its as much a part of life as anything else. So this is not about pushing it away, or feeling differently etc. Or aim is not to exclude, but to include, to see things with more clarity.

So, we welcome this sense of 'me', and sit with it, immerse in it, discover what is this sense-of-'me' experience is made of?

Explore the feelings and sensations with enjoyment, and precision.

You might notice, for example, that there is a most familiar feeling around the stomach, which is part of this sense-of-'me' experience. And that is noted. And you explore around the experience for more examples.

You might also notice where the sense-of-'me' experience isn't.

For example, does the left little toe contain much sense-of-'me' experience?
Or the eyebrow? Or the knee?

In such a way, you draw in to the strongest elements of this sense-of-'me' experience.

Share what you discover.

Takk,
John

Thanks for clearing that up for me! :)

So, we welcome this sense of 'me', and sit with it, immerse in it, discover what is this sense-of-'me' experience is made of?
Thoughts, feelings, sensations, pictures, words, ideas, feelings, presense.

In such a way, you draw in to the strongest elements of this sense-of-'me' experience.

Share what you discover

The strongest elements in this sens of me is my vision (what I see) and my head (where I see from).
This makes me identify with this body and this person.
The sense of "me" is not dependent on a body; when I meditate, I loose awareness of my body, what is up and down, and time and place, but I still am...


Thanks,
Andy

Thanks for clearing that up for me! :)

So, we welcome this sense of 'me', and sit with it, immerse in it, discover what is this sense-of-'me' experience is made of?
Thoughts, feelings, sensations, pictures, words, ideas, feelings, presense.

In such a way, you draw in to the strongest elements of this sense-of-'me' experience.

Share what you discover

The strongest elements in this sens of me is my vision (what I see) and my head (where I see from).
This makes me identify with this body and this person.
The sense of "me" is not dependent on a body; when I meditate, I loose awareness of my body, what is up and down, and time and place, but I still am...

Ok, good. Let's take one particular piece, a familiar feeling where you go, 'yep, that's me'.

So, here you are feeling this regular 'me' kinda feeling.

Ask yourself, 'What is it that makes this particular feeling feel like it represents/is me?'

What is ADDED to a physical feeling that makes it 'the feeling of me'?

Explore and share...

Takk,
John

Ask yourself, 'What is it that makes this particular feeling feel like it represents/is me?'
Because it points to me, I am not the feeling, I am that which is aware of the feelings.

What is ADDED to a physical feeling that makes it 'the feeling of me'?
Thoughts, ideas, consepts, history/memory - lots of "things" (that are not really things) I experience as "describing" me or that I identify with as me.
Also how I behave, I may say "that is not me" if I do something unintentionally or by accident, and "that's me" if I do something intentionall.

Thanks,
Andy

Ask yourself, 'What is it that makes this particular feeling feel like it represents/is me?'
Because it points to me, I am not the feeling, I am that which is aware of the feelings.

Ok. On the one hand you talk about being attached to the ego, the next minute, you are 'that which is aware'. :D
Right now, we are only focussed on ONE thing, which is the familiar feeling that feels like me.

And we are looking at what it is SPECIFICALLY that makes a feeling ME?

And you keep running away into ideas. :) So stop that. lol

Experience the familiar feeling, and see if you can catch yourself in the act of making it 'ME" or 'MY' feeling.

Takk,
John

Experience the familiar feeling, and see if you can catch yourself in the act of making it 'ME" or 'MY' feeling.
Ok, I see what you mean.
I focus on the feeling... it is there... and when it is there, it is just a feeling... The moment I start to think about the feeling, that is when the idetification happens and it turns from being a feeling to my feeling.

Thanks,
Andy