In a rented house in Brook Street

[Hannapple]

Hi Nina,

Thank you for your in depth reply. I massively appreciate your time. I looked up the quote function so will try again. I'll copy and paste your questions from the last email and post my answers underneath for simplicity. See how that works out?!

What happens when you read this:

"Giraffe"?

I saw a giraffe immediately and not the word. I saw my daughter's special giraffe called Wendy too. Perhaps because you provided the word giraffe, I then went to the image whereas when I was trying to play with thoughts and see if i could create them, I came up with the concept, not the image of 'elephant' first.

Some people experience thought far more as words and language than as mental images. But this a probably habit as much as anything. For example, when seeing the word "elephant", is it possible to change the colour of the letters and make the word bigger and smaller? Have a play around and see what happens.

As soon as you suggested playing around with the letters and colour?size I could no longer see the word, only images of elephants! Elmer, cartoon pink bubble ones, one i sat on in a river in Nepal. It made me laugh because I saw again how little control I had over my intention to have particular thoughts. As i settled into it I could then visualise more the word but it wasn't easy. My mind 'wanted' images. I managed to 'write' in my own handwriting in my mind the word 'elephant' and then I was able to 'colour' the word and play more with size 'though it felt unwieldy and like my mind wasn't easily playing ball!



Try to have thoughts about as many animals as possible is a minute. Is it possible to predict what animals will come up in which order?

No, it's definitely not possible to predict which animals will come up in which order! I liked sitting waiting for what came and there were clusters of animals that came- an image of David Attenborough's face flashed and then came and lots of animals from The Hunt- my son has the DVD and we have watched the series a lot so suddenly there was a wash of Blue whale, Sargassam fish, tasselled wobegon etc and it was speedy, like my mind/memory was riding a roller coaster as it triggered more animals then it became random again as a badger appeared then I saw my mind attach to British animals- a flurry again, then a gap, then springing back and forth with what ever was thrown up.

So it is not possible to find a "conjurer" of thought?

No. There was no one there conjuring up the animals. My memory and experience had something to do with the animals that came- the fact that I've watched The Hunt so much in two years means those images are in my memory. There wasn't a 'conjuror' but there was memory and experience. Would it be possible for animals to appear that i had never seen or heard of or knew names for?

So it is not possible to find a "predictor"?

No, I don't think it is.

Could it be another thought that says it is possible to pick and choose thoughts?
It does seem that it is possible to interrupt thoughts .... but only with other thoughts.
What would be picking and choosing thoughts?

Yes i think it is another thought that says it's possible to interrupt thoughts and I do agree that it is only other thoughts that interrupt thoughts so its a cycle of thought after thought interrupting thought even if at the time "I' believe that 'I' have done the interrupting. So yes, what would be picking or choosing the thoughts? I guess just more thoughts because I'm seeing that i can't get a hold of this me that is having the thoughts, just a sense of thoughts coming and going of their own volition- Thoughts swirling around one after another with this imagined me thinking that I have some control. I guess i can choose to 'annihilate' thoughts through intoxication or numbing. Would that not be this me called Hannah choosing to pick and choose? Actually, as I write that, I see that even in those states, I'm not picking or choosing thoughts, I'm just picking and choosing a different mental state to be in but the control of what enters my mind is even more out of my control.......

So it is not possible to find a controller?

No.

And maybe that "Hannah" has an experience of thought, but that experience is not the same as was believed?

How does it feel to have found no controller of thought?
What sensations are there?
What thoughts are there?

It feels familiar from mediation to see that what enters my mind or my experience is out of my control, is not in my hands and that when I have been able to just sit with, really be present to the state of my mind, it's a fascinating flow of thoughts, sensations etc. That subtle changes in conditions can radically change the experience of my mind and that even with very similar conditions I can sit and have an entirely different experience- again a way to show that i can't predict my thoughts or experience, how ever much i might like to think i can. I feel in touch with a sensation that I used to get in meditation, when i would sit a lot, where there was space, a simple but profound sense of space. A loosening of my stories and my tightness. I feel these past two nights were I've really engaged with this, like I've meditated deeply and opened up enough space to just feel that. It's not intellectual, it's a kind of inner felt depth. I still believe that "Hannah' is here as i type. I'm still feeling into the memory/ experience thoughts i've had but I feel closer to something deeper and calmer.

The thoughts that are coming aren't quick or panicked or grasping. I can feel a smile forming. I can feel myself getting closer, getting 'back' to something I know.

Thanks Nina, That's all for tonight.
I'm feeling a little anxious that from Thursday to Monday I'm in London on an in-depth psychology 'thing' but i will have time on public transport and i will be able to reply from my phone in the evenings so if you could have that in mind in the next communication, that would help,

Love Hannah x

[Nina45]

Hi Hannah,

It was so great to read this:

I feel these past two nights were I've really engaged with this, like I've meditated deeply and opened up enough space to just feel that. It's not intellectual, it's a kind of inner felt depth. I still believe that "Hannah' is here as i type. I'm still feeling into the memory/ experience thoughts i've had but I feel closer to something deeper and calmer.

Thoughts are just a part of experience rather than believing they are in charge!

Try this when there is another opportunity to write, whether at a keyboard or with a pen:

What is the sensation of the fingers on the keyboard/ holding a pen?
Look at the hand/s as they move.
Is there a thought before the writing takes place?
If so, does the thought have a location?
Is the thought is anyway moving the hand/s?
What exactly is moving the hand/s (look for the answer in actual experience rather than theory!)
What is it that knows how to do this thing called writing (in actual exoerience)?
Can anything be found, in actual exoerience, doing the writing?


Here are a few ways of looking at actual experience on the bus:

Be with the sounds on the bus. Where exactly does the sound stop and the listener begin?

Be with the sensations - the sense of feet on the floor, the pressure of the seat, the vibrations as the bus moves.
Where exactly does sensation stop and the "feeler" begin?

Be with the smells. Where exactly does smell stop and the smeller begin?

Be with taste. Where exactly does taste stop and the taster begin?

Be with the colours. Where exactly does colour stop and the perceiver begin?

What thoughts are here? Are there bits of conversation? Is there a voice that seems to be "thinking"? Are there images? Where exactly does thought end and thinking begin?

Try these again and again until there is a confidence in the answers!

Lots of love Hannah!

Nina
Xxx

[Hannapple]

Hi Nina,

Thanks for keeping this moving.

What is the sensation of the fingers on the keyboard/ holding a pen?
Look at the hand/s as they move.
Is there a thought before the writing takes place?
If so, does the thought have a location?
Is the thought is anyway moving the hand/s?
What exactly is moving the hand/s (look for the answer in actual experience rather than theory!)
What is it that knows how to do this thing called writing (in actual exoerience)?
Can anything be found, in actual exoerience, doing the writing?

The sensation of the fingers on the key board is is is is........complex, multi layered; a mixture of repetitive actions and muscle memory (my fingers knowing where to go for my passwords immediately) and just wiggling moving fingers/hands seemingly independent of me. Wrinkled, with flashing silver from my rings, veins and tiny indents and marks. Brown from the sun. The sensation is one of pressure and movement, a staccato rhythm when my spelling is halted or I have to think what to write and more fluid and tip tappy when I'm typing with more ease. The sensation is hard to pin down because I'm also seeing numbers and letters and choosing which to tap and watching my fingers seem to know where to go without being told.

Is there a thought before the writing takes place? There is a thought that I will start now, a first movement to start the process. Then thoughts and actions get muddled into one and they seem to be happening at once. I write very quickly, and messily, by hand. I'm not nearly so proficient at typing so I don't feel the thought/action process is so close and aligned doing typing. Right now, i'm typing my thoughts as they arise and in some ways I'm not predicting what comes. My fingers are following the thought by a fraction of a second, like they are chasing my thoughts and recording them!

The thought seems to have a location in my mind before I type but now that I type, it seems to be flowing from my fingers.........

The what that is moving my hand can't seem to be located. It's odd. Of course I think it's "me' but when i actually do this it's like the typing bypasses me and just comes out of my fingers...but then the thought did seem to be in my mind....i'm laughing now because I'm trying to type quickly to try and outwit my thoughts/mind but it all feels futile- like a dog chasing it's tail. I'm not sure what is moving the hands. My hands. It's not a conscious thought saying, 'right now, type', it's a fluidity between hands and something floating in the ether silently instructing them!

I can't find anything in this actual experience of typing that is real. It's process- chicken and egg like: I don't know which comes first. It's like driving and deeply thinking at the same time. Something/one is driving but actually it's not consciously me. So this typing thing feels trippy now i'm looking at it- "hannah' is here typing but there is something happening that is simply happening and I'm not actually doing it.....

Interesting..... Thanks you. That's all for today. Public transport tomorrow.

Be well, Love Hannah x

[Nina45]

Fantastic looking Hannah!

Something seems to be driving bit I don't know what it is!

Is that is quite a shift in belief from the start of this process?

"I don't know" is a a very helpful thought :o)

Good luck with the bus exercises. Have fun with them.

Looking forward to the next response.

Nina
Xxxx

[Hannapple]

Hello Nina,

I hope you're well. I'm on a train from London and it's been an interesting day of trying to be with my experience on buses, trains and the underground. I had a strong experience of anxiety on the journey up- a forgotten code, a missed train, a wrong bus, a fear of the circle line and my ability to get maps wrong! And the anxiety felt as though it sat in my stomach, it felt real and present. I felt that I could locate it there. There is a residue now and it seems to be located right in the centre of my stomach as a knot, as tension. So right now, I'm feeling the movement of the train making me sway, my feet are hot in my sandals on the floor, my arm is cool resting on the plastic. The noise comes and goes louder and soft- a slam. I can experience the sensations as sensation and it's hard to locate where sense and sensor begin and end yet my arm on the plastic does feel like 'me'. It feels tangible and as I gently bang it, I feel my elbow. My body. Yet I can't get hold of anything in between that makes the sensation and the sensing body meet.

I think I'm ruffled by the anxiety thing. It feels very real in terms of bodily sensations- but perhaps now that I'm calmer I can explore it a bit more.... Sonething real was happening in my body- stress hormones and slight panic- sweating etc. The other times I've been lookin iVe been on my own, in a quiet and calm environment. The anxiety seemed to have a lot of power yet now I can also feel that although the the anxiety existed and seemed to have some control over me, it was a physical response to out side stressors and I can't really locate the me that felt it. Can you help me with the physical feeling of the churning stomach please? That did feel like 'me'.

Now I'm more relaxed I can feel and enjoy the train doing to me what it is in terms of sound and movement. Ah, and now it's got loud and it felt assaulting but it was just sound.

It's good to experience this, in these xonditions because I feel a bit thrown. I'm writing on my 'phone too so please bear with the auto correct etc.

Love hannah x

[Nina45]

Hi Hannah-

Looking at anxiety:

First of all have compassion/love/ kindness for the animal that is looking out for danger! The protector/ watcher/ defender. Thought is trying to "diagnose" the problem and sensation is a warning of something.

Is it possible to stay with the sensation? How long does it take from thought/ images to turn up?
What happens in thought?

Look at the thoughts carefully but do not get into conversation with them.

Look at the sensation carefully. Explore the sensation as much as possible.

Is it possible to see this as just sensation?

Is it possible to see thought just as thought?

Does the sensation know anything about the thought label "anxiety"?

Does the thought label "anxiety" know anything about the sensation?

Is it possible to see the sensation and the thought as arising separately?

Now ask thought to stop making unnecessary effort.

Ask sensation to stop making unnecessary effort.

What is there?

Good luck

Nina
Xxxx

[Hannapple]

Hello Nina,

I was working with what you typed on the train up this morning and the underground but it's got very late now and I'm good for nothing. I'll be in touch tomorrow, thanks Hannah x

[Hannapple]

Hello Nina,

I've been doing my course all day but in between, on the tube, walking , sitting in the park at lunch, I'm tryin to bring my attention back to what I am experiencing directly.

No, the sensation of anxiety doesn't seem to know about the thought of anxiety or vice verse. The sensation of anxiety ( I had it again today as I realised I'd be 5 mins late) is a real feeling but yes, the label is the addition. The story of what my slight lateness MIGHT mean definitely didn't have anything to do with the actual physical sensation of what was going on in my body. I sat on the tube feeling fine and then saw how many stops we had to go and realised I was cutting it fine. The thoughts were 'I dont want to be late, I really value this course, I don't want to miss out/ be rushed/ be 'told off' etc' but I was quite quick to spot them today and to sink back into my belly, feel the tension but let go of the story and thoughts much more quickly. There was nothing I could do at that point about hurrying up the tube so I relaxed into it, still feeling a knot but I tried to not encourage the thoughts to proliferate. It's possible to see the thought and the sensation arising at different times. What I realise is, the thoughts and experience have become associated with one another and so have felt like the same but on looking much more closely, I experience them as distinct. This has been harder than looking say at my hands or keyboard because the physical stress removes the calmness that helps clear seeing.

I don't think the thought label does know anything about the sensation anxiety, it is the story my thoughts create to make sense of a sensation.

This feels like a big one for me to keep looking at. It's been hard separating out sensation and thought.

I'm sorry there are no quote marks. I find it much harder on my phone.

Thank you Nina for being out there for me to 'plug into' and to keep me looking as I'm trying,

Love Hannah x

[Nina45]

Hi Hannah,

This is really great work Hannah! Well done for looking at this so carefully. It is the key to seeing what is actually there.

There is a belief that sensation and thought are linked. The pointer here is to constantly look for the glue that seems to stick sensation and thought to each other. Does this glue exist? Or do we just believe the glue exists?

Is the "glue" the story of "me"?
E.g. brick falls on toe causes "ouch" sensation.

Story: "Ahhhh! MY toe is broken. "I" will have to go to hospital and have it x-rayed. Oh no! "I" always have to wait for hours in A&E. What a pain. What if "I" don't bother going? Can "I" live with a broken toe? Will "I" still be able to wear MY favourite shoes?"

Have a look and see if it is possible to SEE the "stories of me" that seem to arise in response to sensation ( or feel glued to sensation or the stories that seem to cause sensation).

What is there?

Good luck!

Nina
Xxx

[Hannapple]

Hello Nina,

No there is no glue. I can't see it or feel it so if it's not there in sensation, where would it be?

Hmmmmmm, the stories of me. This is tricky. When I look, I can't find or see the stories of me but I do have memory. This came up the other day for me. Are my memories all entirely fictions because I can't actually see them now? Muscle memory? We aren't blank slates but we are only this precise moment too so what does that mean for memory/ experience? I realise I'm in my head now but I do want to honour this ......!!! Ah, it's just a thought?!?! I caught that.

I think this is sticky because I'm on a psychotherapy weekend and space and attention are being given to our stories- as well as current sensations and feelings. I totally understand what you wrote about the brick falling on the toe and the cascade of thoughts that ensue.

I just felt a wheeze. A physical effect in my body. I'm asthmatic. So that is a sensation- a sound and a feeling. Then my mind turns to, "where's my inhaler, oh I've been much better than usual considering Will had a cat and I'm really allergic, it must be their wooden floors blah blah" BUT I do need my inhaler and so did the thought not then need to come to get me to look for and then take my medicine? Or could I just have felt the sensation of wheezing and with no thought or story, taken the meds? Without the thoughts and sensations being glued together by my 'me-ing'?

Do stories cause sensation? I reckon yes. If I get into my head and thoughts come and escalate in some stressful way and I choose to keep goin with them as though they held absolute truth, then I think physical sensations can follow. If I deliberately think about the new job I'm about to start, I feel a flicker in my stomach, a tightening. I felt it- did I imagine it?

I know I'm not there yet. The glue is still there to an extent for me. I'll keep trying!!!!

Love Hannah x

[Nina45]

Hi Hannah!

No there is no glue. I can't see it or feel it so if it's not there in sensation, where would it be?[/quote

Perfect question Hannah!
Use the same question to look for an "I" or "me".
If it is not there in sensation, where would it be?
Have a really good look.
Perhaps make a list of other places it could be and look there too!

Hmmmmmm, the stories of me. This is tricky. When I look, I can't find or see the stories of me but I do have memory. This came up the other day for me. Are my memories all entirely fictions because I can't actually see them now? Muscle memory? We aren't blank slates but we are only this precise moment too so what does that mean for memory/ experience? I realise I'm in my head now but I do want to honour this ......!!! Ah, it's just a thought?!?! I caught that.

Yes, it is all just a thought! Memory, stories, concepts, labels, words.
Are "you" in the head? Have a look.

Is it possible to see "you" in thought? A mental image of "you".
A "you" sleeping? A "you" washing? A "you" cooking? A "you" on the train?
And Hannah, is it possible to see an image of "you looking?

Are "you" looking?

Look back and SEE what is there.

Then my mind turns to, "where's my inhaler, oh I've been much better than usual considering Will had a cat and I'm really allergic, it must be their wooden floors blah blah" BUT I do need my inhaler and so did the thought not then need to come to get me to look for and then take my medicine? Or could I just have felt the sensation of wheezing and with no thought or story, taken the meds? Without the thoughts and sensations being glued together by my 'me-ing'?

Look for what is REAL.
There is sensation
Colour
Smell
Taste
Sound
And thoughts

Seeing the thought is a real experience, like seeing a film is a real experience.
But is the content of thought any more real than the content of a film?

Do stories cause sensation? I reckon yes. If I get into my head and thoughts come and escalate in some stressful way and I choose to keep goin with them as though they held absolute truth, then I think physical sensations can follow. If I deliberately think about the new job I'm about to start, I feel a flicker in my stomach, a tightening. I felt it- did I imagine it?

Like the experience of seeing a film?
Is there any difference between the sensations that arise when seeing a film and the sensations that arise when seeing the content of thought?

Good luck with looking Hannah!

Lots of love

Nina
Xxxx

[Nina45]

Uh oh! Quote function blow out!

Here is the post again......

Hi Hannah!

No there is no glue. I can't see it or feel it so if it's not there in sensation, where would it be?

Perfect question Hannah!
Use the same question to look for an "I" or "me".
If it is not there in sensation, where would it be?
Have a really good look.
Perhaps make a list of other places it could be and look there too!

Hmmmmmm, the stories of me. This is tricky. When I look, I can't find or see the stories of me but I do have memory. This came up the other day for me. Are my memories all entirely fictions because I can't actually see them now? Muscle memory? We aren't blank slates but we are only this precise moment too so what does that mean for memory/ experience? I realise I'm in my head now but I do want to honour this ......!!! Ah, it's just a thought?!?! I caught that.

Yes, it is all just a thought! Memory, stories, concepts, labels, words.
Are "you" in the head? Have a look.

Is it possible to see "you" in thought? A mental image of "you".
A "you" sleeping? A "you" washing? A "you" cooking? A "you" on the train?
And Hannah, is it possible to see an image of "you looking?

Are "you" looking?

Look back and SEE what is there.

Then my mind turns to, "where's my inhaler, oh I've been much better than usual considering Will had a cat and I'm really allergic, it must be their wooden floors blah blah" BUT I do need my inhaler and so did the thought not then need to come to get me to look for and then take my medicine? Or could I just have felt the sensation of wheezing and with no thought or story, taken the meds? Without the thoughts and sensations being glued together by my 'me-ing'?

Look for what is REAL.
There is sensation
Colour
Smell
Taste
Sound
And thoughts

Seeing the thought is a real experience, like seeing a film is a real experience.
But is the content of thought any more real than the content of a film?

Do stories cause sensation? I reckon yes. If I get into my head and thoughts come and escalate in some stressful way and I choose to keep goin with them as though they held absolute truth, then I think physical sensations can follow. If I deliberately think about the new job I'm about to start, I feel a flicker in my stomach, a tightening. I felt it- did I imagine it?

Like the experience of seeing a film?
Is there any difference between the sensations that arise when seeing a film and the sensations that arise when seeing the content of thought?

Good luck with looking Hannah!

Lots of love

Nina
Xxxx

[Hannapple]

Evening Nina,

I'm back from London tonight. Bear with me- I read your last post this evening and I'm with it but i want to go into what you wrote properly tomorrow. This is just to stay connected,

Thanks you, love Hanah x

[Hannapple]

Hello Nina,

Use the same question to look for an "I" or "me".
If it is not there in sensation, where would it be?
Have a really good look.

In looking for an "I" or a "me', I can slap my thighs and feel sensation in my body- 'my' thigh is making a sound against my hand, 'i' can feel it, if I slap too hard, as verging on pain BUT when I follow the sensation I experience it as hand acting against thigh and there isn't an intermediary that I can find. I still believe that there is a 'me' watching over all of my experience somehow but when i go looking for her, she isn't there as i imagine she is. My 'i' or 'me'- I ask myself, does she exist in my heart, my other vital organs? The material Hannah is there, surely? The material parts that make up the functioning Hannah who walk,s talks, who carried children.

Are "you" in the head? Have a look.

Is it possible to see "you" in thought? A mental image of "you".

A "you" sleeping? A "you" washing? A "you" cooking? A "you" on the train?
And Hannah, is it possible to see an image of "you looking?

Are "you" looking?

No I'm not in the head!!!! But i want to be!!!

No it's not possible to see a 'me' in thought. The mental image of 'me' is the body and face of Hannah that i inhabit.
I can imagine a sleeping me, an image of me looking but it's just a surface mirror image that i'm talking about-like a video of me sleeping......When I look at me looking, I realise it's just the sensation of looking that I'm ACTUALLY experiencing. i'm looking at en egg box right now.........When I'm looking closely, i am really just looking. There is no commentary about the box, just seeing words, patterns, colours etc. Red pen, black writing, black hole, etc etc. Then i went into thought- imagining where the hens were, what their 'free range' life is like etc. I had some moments of really just seeing before the thoughts.

so to apply the same to myself- this body is real, my sensations are real but when i go looking for the Hannah who commands and holds it all together, i can't find her looking. When i really look, there is no 'middle woman'.

Like the experience of seeing a film?
Is there any difference between the sensations that arise when seeing a film and the sensations that arise when seeing the content of thought?

No, I guess not. It FEELS more real in real life but the sensation is no different.........................I take my thoughts more seriously than i do most films but they are thoughts about film or thoughts about my inner world.... they are thoughts.....

I feel like i'm slowly slowly chipping away but you might have me on your hands for quite some while...!

Thanks nina,

With love Hannah x x x

[Nina45]

Hi Hannah!

Thanks for a very interesting post which unveiled beautifully some underlying beliefs. (Time for the Zen Stick!)

In looking for an "I" or a "me', I can slap my thighs and feel sensation in my body- 'my' thigh is making a sound against my hand, 'i' can feel it, if I slap too hard, as verging on pain BUT when I follow the sensation I experience it as hand acting against thigh and there isn't an intermediary that I can find.

Great looking Hannah - yes, there is just sensation.
Try the "bus" exercise again now.
Where does sensation end and the "I" begin?
Where does taste end EXACTLY and where does the taster begin?
Where does sound stop EXACTLY and the hearer begin?
Where does colour end exactly and the one seeing begin?
Where does smell end exactly and the smeller begin?
Where does thought end and the thinker begin?

(Please answer all questions individually using the quote function if at all possible!)


I

still believe that there is a 'me' watching over all of my experience somehow but when i go looking for her, she isn't there as i imagine she is. My 'i' or 'me'- I ask myself, does she exist in my heart, my other vital organs? The material Hannah is there, surely? The material parts that make up the functioning Hannah who walk,s talks, who carried children.

There is a belief is an "I" watching over all experience.
How is "she" different from the imaginary watcher?
Where is the exact location of the watcher?

Is it possible to find the heart in actual experience?
Is it possible to find the liver?
The kidneys?
The womb?
The brain?
Is any of it findable here and now in actual experience?
Is it possible that an "I" could be hiding in any of these locations?

No I'm not in the head!!!! But i want to be!!!

Explain why that is where "you" want to be?

No it's not possible to see a 'me' in thought. The mental image of 'me' is the body and face of Hannah that i inhabit.
I can imagine a sleeping me, an image of me looking but it's just a surface mirror image that i'm talking about-like a video of me sleeping.....

.

So there is a belief that this surface image is not who "you" are?
How is "you" different from the mental image of "you"?

When I look at me looking, I realise it's just the sensation of looking that I'm ACTUALLY experiencing.

BRILLIANT! There is just sensation, colour, smell taste, sound .... and thought overlaying them.

so to apply the same to myself- this body is real, my sensations are real but when i go looking for the Hannah who commands and holds it all together, i can't find her looking. When i really look, there is no 'middle woman'.

No, indeed. What would the "middle woman" look like if it were possible to find her?

..............I take my thoughts more seriously than i do most films but they are thoughts about film or thoughts about my inner world.... they are thoughts.....

There is a belief that there is an "inside"? An inner world where "you" live?
Is there an "inside" where "you" could be living?
Where exactly does thought happen?
Does thought have a location?

I feel like i'm slowly slowly chipping away but you might have me on your hands for quite some while...!

It is just another belief .... that this inquiry will take a long time. There are other inquires after this one we could travel together ........ No need to hang about on this one!!!

Much love, Hannah

Nina
Xxxxx