I am ready

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani

I am expecting a revelation, an aha moment.
I am expecting a key word or phrase or question that would eventually trigger my awakening like a chain reaction, destroying all the beliefs and eventually the belief in the existence of an I. Somehow, every time when I get a new notification that you answered, in the back of my head I can hear a "this is it"
I am expecting to get rid forever of the feeling of superiority, pride and arrogance caused by this path.
I am expecting to teach others how to do this.
I am expecting to be the hero that took the leap of faith and now can guide the others as well.
I am expecting to be praised and well regarded by my girlfriend and close friends.
I am expecting to live in a state of complete relaxation, love and ecstasy for the rest of my life.
I am expecting to completely and forever shut-down my thoughts, and the voice in my head.
I am expecting to be some kind of savior for humanity, some kind of a great teacher who uses simple words, clear pointers to "awaken" the others.

Brilliant!
What wants all this? Find that want and pick it apart. What is it made up of?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hey Sarah,

Brilliant!
What wants all this? Find that want and pick it apart. What is it made up of?

Nothing, nothing, nothing... This wanting, when looked at, is made of nothing...
I am getting really frustrated with this. And stuck. I find nothing, but still, everything is exactly the same.

Best,
Dani

P.S.
I am sure now that I am not the doer of anything.

[arunachala]

One more thing,

I am sure now that I am not the doer of anything. And as real as it gets, as frustrating it seems to be for the "I", because there is no becoming, no choice, everything just is, and is just happening. Can't judge anybody for their actions anymore, because it's not their choice either. So what now? I try to see what is it with this "I" that remains.
So then this "I" is irrelevant. Not even irrelevant, because that would imply it exists. While I search for where it begins and where it ends, I find nothing. And some pain between the scapula appears everytime I question the existence, or the limits of this "I".

And this is where I am now.

Have an awesome day!
Dani

[Sarah7]

Hi Dani

Nothing, nothing, nothing

Look again - is it thought? Is thought wanting something other than what is? Anything else apart from thought? Look.

I am getting really frustrated with this. And stuck.

Pick this frustration apart - Is it sensation, is it thought explaining that sensation, is that thought also wanting something other than what is?
Ans the word stuck - what does it apply to? A thought creating a story about being stuck?

I am sure now that I am not the doer of anything

Do you control thought - are you the doer of thought?

I try to see what is it with this "I" that remains.

What 'I' is this? Where is it? Is that a story too?

While I search for where it begins and where it ends, I find nothing.

Excellent!

or the limits of this "I".

What limits? Thought? Look.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Dear Sarah,

Thank you thank you thank you thank you. I have arrived to the destination. Or better said there has been arrival to where I've always been, to the place which I've never left :))) Can;'t stop laughing :))
It was again soooo simple, so obvious, so subtle. Fucking mind, now I know what it is capable of, tricky bastard.

Nothing, nothing, nothing

Look again - is it thought? Is thought wanting something other than what is? Anything else apart from thought? Look.

This was the sticking point. THere is a realization now that this "nothing" was only a mental one, stated without prior investigation. After investigating, yes, there was only thought, who plays the trick of wanting something that is not here (another thought), therefore keeping "me" in a endless chasing loop. Damn!

I am getting really frustrated with this. And stuck.

Pick this frustration apart - Is it sensation, is it thought explaining that sensation, is that thought also wanting something other than what is?
Ans the word stuck - what does it apply to? A thought creating a story about being stuck?

indeed: only a sensation, followed by a mental interpretation. Now there is such a beautiful emptiness and peace, yet there is nothing new :)))

I am sure now that I am not the doer of anything

Do you control thought - are you the doer of thought?
no and no

I try to see what is it with this "I" that remains.

What 'I' is this? Where is it? Is that a story too?

Another story indeed, just like a belief, a value and whatever other bullshit going on.

or the limits of this "I".

What limits? Thought? Look.

"the limits of the I" :)) what limits, what "I"? the limits of an unreal story? :))))) Sorry but this is just ridiculous now.

There are no words left, no more questions, no more frustration.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart (this is another concept :)))) but you know what it is meant by this.

dani

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani

I have arrived to the destination.

Bear with me a bit longer of you will. I like to be thorough and make sure nothing is hiding! Hope that's OK?

therefore keeping "me" in a endless chasing loop.

Are thoughts the enemy? Is there a need to stop them?

I just want to look at sensory experience and separation, start with seeing.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hey Sarah,

Bear with me a bit longer of you will. I like to be thorough and make sure nothing is hiding! Hope that's OK?

all good!

therefore keeping "me" in a endless chasing loop.

Are thoughts the enemy? Is there a need to stop them?

Honestly yes, thought were seen as the enemy, in a sense that there was the assumption that when the thoughts stop appearing, all is done.

After yesterday, I am even more confused. What seemed so real, appears to be not permanent now. Not sure if it was just an impression or a real experience anymore, because thoughts are still going on now.

I just want to look at sensory experience and separation, start with seeing.

Gaze at an object. Turn up that inner magnifying glass to observe what's happening in direct experience. In seeing, what is being experienced? What is happening when "seeing" is happening? What is doing the seeing? What is being seen? What does "seeing" consists of? Describe the actual, direct experience of seeing. Do you first perceive the object using some other sense, and then see it later? Can you find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it? Or are the object and the seeing of it inseparable? Is there an entity called "you" experiencing the seeing? Can you find a dividing line between "you" and seeing? Is it an accurate description of direct experience? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and seer and an object? Or is there only seeing? What do you see about the thought, "I'm seeing that object"?

ok here we go.
When "seeing" is happening, the eye is seeing the object. if I close my eyes, the object disappears. However, the object is just a name or a label applied to a bunch of colors. So all the eye is seeing is colors (which are, in a sense, also a label).
I couldn't find a dividing line between the object and the seeing of it. Seeing can't exist by itself without the object and object without the seeing of it (in direct experience), so they are connected, all being one and the same thing, with different names. However, it all seems to appear still to an I that claims all this as the seer.
Regarding the statement, it's rather "I am seeing" that is true in my case.

Try it with various sights e.g. out of the window at a distant view. See if you can find a way to separate the object from the seeing and the seeing from the seer. Where does one start and the other end? How many senses are there here - 1 or more?

Tried it and all seems the same as before. No way to separate the seeing from the object, neither from the seer.
When I tried to look at a tree in a distance and at the same time think of an orange, I had a vivid image of the orange, but at the same time the tree was also seen. So the seer was occupied with the orange, but the tree was still noticed.

Best,
Dani

[Sarah7]

Mornin Dani

Honestly yes, thought were seen as the enemy,

Pick that apart, what is that made up of?

in a sense that there was the assumption that when the thoughts stop appearing, all is done.

See that assumption - what is that also made up of - is it thoughts wanting something other than what is? i.e. the grass is greener if we only do or .......blah blah blah...... :)

After yesterday, I am even more confused. What seemed so real, appears to be not permanent now. Not sure if it was just an impression or a real experience anymore, because thoughts are still going on now.

What state is permanent that is experienced? Look around - what doesn't change?

the eye is seeing the object.

Do you actually experience the eye seeing?
Does seeing happen even if thought is elsewhere?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Morning Sarah,

Honestly yes, thought were seen as the enemy,

Pick that apart, what is that made up of?

it is just another thought that says that "thought is the enemy".

in a sense that there was the assumption that when the thoughts stop appearing, all is done.

See that assumption - what is that also made up of - is it thoughts wanting something other than what is? i.e. the grass is greener if we only do or .......blah blah blah...... :)

Indeed, it's a thought that is wanting something. It seems more and more that most of the things that I think I am experiencing are just thoughts, nothing more. Even when it's raining for example, there is a seeing of the rain-which takes 1 second or less, and then the labeling and interpretation of rain(for how long will it rain, I don't have an umbrella, bla bla bla).

After yesterday, I am even more confused. What seemed so real, appears to be not permanent now. Not sure if it was just an impression or a real experience anymore, because thoughts are still going on now.

What state is permanent that is experienced? Look around - what doesn't change?

The most constant thing I can experience is the feeling of "I".

the eye is seeing the object.

Do you actually experience the eye seeing?
Does seeing happen even if thought is elsewhere?

no, i can't experience the eye seeing. after a closer look, i can only experience seeing. not the seer not the seen, only the seeing. And same is especially with tasting. I can only experience the tasting of a chocolate.
Yes, seeing happens even if thought is elsewhere. What does this mean then?

Thanks again and again Sarah for your unlimited patience. i really appreciate it :)

Dani

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani

it is just another thought that says that "thought is the enemy".

LOL!

Indeed, it's a thought that is wanting something.

OK so can a thought actually want? If not - then its just an individual thought passing by, no more harmful than a cloud in the sky. Is the sky bothered by any cloud? Does it prefer the white fluffy ones as apposed to the darker ones? Is the radio bothered by what song comes out of it? Does it know what song will arrive next?

What notices all of this? Anything? Nothing?

The most constant thing I can experience is the feeling of "I".

Explain please.

What does this mean then?

You tell me. Are you separate from experience? Are you separate from anything?

Lets move onto sound and hearing.
Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?
What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Indeed, it's a thought that is wanting something.

OK so can a thought actually want? If not - then its just an individual thought passing by, no more harmful than a cloud in the sky. Is the sky bothered by any cloud? Does it prefer the white fluffy ones as apposed to the darker ones? Is the radio bothered by what song comes out of it? Does it know what song will arrive next?

Wow, yes, then wanting is also just a thought, as a thought has no actual power. what a surprise (another belief shatters)

What notices all of this? Anything? Nothing?

I could not find anything as "the noticer"

The most constant thing I can experience is the feeling of "I".

Explain please.

What I meant by this is that the most constant thing throughout the day is this feeling that "I am" in this world. And then the ramifications of this: I am this body, I am tall etc etc

What does this mean then?

You tell me. Are you separate from experience? Are you separate from anything?

No, I am not separate from the experience.

Lets move onto sound and hearing.
Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought, "Those are birds." Notice the habitual thought, "I hear that." Now just pay attention to how hearing happens. Take your time with it. Can you find a dividing line between the sound and the hearing of the sound? Are you doing the hearing? Or is it truer to say that hearing is just happening? Then look to see whether there's a dividing line between the hearing of it and a separate entity, a "you," doing the hearing. In other words, what does it mean when you say, "I'm hearing that sound"? Are there really three entities there in direct experience, an "I" and hearing and a sound? Or is there just one experience of hearing, with no one as a hearer. Look closely. Try it with various sounds. See if you can find a way to separate the sound from the hearing and the hearing from the hearer. Where does one start and the other end? So what do you see about the thought, "I'm hearing that sound"? Is it an accurate description of direct experience?

It is the same as with the seeing, in a sense that I couldn't find any limit where the heard, the hearing and the hear-er starts and ends. Hence, the sentence "I am hearing that sound" is not true in direct experience, as there is only hearing.

What is a noise? Is that a label also? Is the sound there? Can you really know?

Noise is a concept, a label (thought) put over the hearing. I don;t know if sound is really there, all I can say for sure is that hearing happens.

Another discovery: If I look close enough, there can't happen 2 things at the same time, i.e. to think of an orange an seeing also to take place. Or to read and also hearing to take place. If the attention is on hearing, then reading subtly stops.
It also seems that there can't be 2 thoughts happening at the same time neither.

Best,
Dani

[Sarah7]

Hi Dani

I could not find anything as "the noticer"

Ah but does noticing happen?

And then the ramifications of this: I am this body, I am tall etc etc

Pick these apart - what are they made up of? Thought? Anything else?

Does hearing happen even if thoughts are elsewhere?

Onto touch.
Touch the table (or any object) with your eyes shut (or open). Pretend like it’s the first time you have ever touched a table. Go straight to the raw sensation/perception. What is your direct experience of this ‘table’? List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?
Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function? Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two?
Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove. Notice your memories or references with which you compare the experience.
Sit with these sensations. Look at them. Look at the labelling e.g. table, hand. Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist outside of thought? Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts? Don’t pay attention to the thoughts just look at what they do, when they come in.
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hi Sarah,

I could not find anything as "the noticer"

Ah but does noticing happen?

Yes, noticing happens.

And then the ramifications of this: I am this body, I am tall etc etc

Pick these apart - what are they made up of? Thought? Anything else?

thoughts and nothing else.

Does hearing happen even if thoughts are elsewhere?

I can't stop the hearing, that is for sure, and then they seem to happen at the same time, but I can;t tell for sure.

Onto touch.
Touch the table (or any object) with your eyes shut (or open). Pretend like it’s the first time you have ever touched a table. Go straight to the raw sensation/perception. What is your direct experience of this ‘table’? List your direct experience. Is it senses again? Is it thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the senses or the thoughts?

ok so the sensation comes first, and then thought (labeling) comes right after.

Does the sensation of touching come with a shape, density, weight, size, colour, age or function? Does this sensation come with a ‘not me’ label or ‘other’ label? Is it one sensation/perception or two?

nope, none of the above. Sensation is just sensation at first.

Look at how thoughts try and take over, try and explain, try and prove. Notice your memories or references with which you compare the experience.
Sit with these sensations. Look at them. Look at the labeling e.g. table, hand. Look at the thoughts or story that attach at the end of this list if any. What is your direct experience of these words? Do they exist outside of thought?

no, they don't exist in direct experience.

Are they sensations again? Are they just thoughts again? Look very closely. Which comes first the sensation or the thoughts? Don’t pay attention to the thoughts just look at what they do, when they come in.

sensations are just sensations. Thoughts come after as labels of these sensations (this is wet, this is cold, etc). Sensation comes first, then thoughts.

I am so curios to find out where is this constant urge to label every experience, every sensation constantly coming from.

Hugs,
Dani

[Sarah7]

Hey Dani

Yes, noticing happens.

And can you stay there? In the noticing space? If so how does that feel? Are there any concerns there? Any problems?

ok so the sensation comes first, and then thought (labeling) comes right after.

Lets explore this a bit more.

Sit on a chair with your eyes closed. Feel the Direct Experience of sitting there. Notice thoughts thinking, labelling and explaining. Notice memory too. Notice sensations experiencing. Notice the sensation of bottom on chair – what is that – a thought? Notice the ‘me’ ‘mine labels e.g. this is my bottom – but look closely at that sensation labelling – is it yours, or just coming and going along with thoughts, ever changing. Is it the thought that wants to own? How many sensations do you notice? 2? One bottom sensation, and one chair sensation? How is that possible? Where does one sensation end and another begin? Locate that line. Can you feel that line? Or is that thought? Can you sense that line – or is that thought explaining the sensation?

Eyes closed. Turn your attention to your skin. Do you have Direct Experience of it being outside?

I am so curios to find out where is this constant urge to label every experience, every sensation constantly coming from.

Good luck with that! :) LOL
Hugs Sarah xxx

[arunachala]

Hi Sarah,

Yes, noticing happens.

And can you stay there? In the noticing space? If so how does that feel? Are there any concerns there? Any problems?

I can stay there, but not for too long, because a thought appears and then another one and then I suddenly realize i got distracted by thoughts.
I feels like nothing. No concerns, no problems, but no happiness or joy either.

Sit on a chair with your eyes closed. Feel the Direct Experience of sitting there. Notice thoughts thinking, labelling and explaining. Notice memory too. Notice sensations experiencing. Notice the sensation of bottom on chair – what is that – a thought? Notice the ‘me’ ‘mine labels e.g. this is my bottom – but look closely at that sensation labelling – is it yours, or just coming and going along with thoughts, ever changing

.
there was no such labeling as me or mine, only the actual feeling.

Is it the thought that wants to own? How many sensations do you notice? 2? One bottom sensation, and one chair sensation? How is that possible? Where does one sensation end and another begin? Locate that line. Can you feel that line? Or is that thought? Can you sense that line – or is that thought explaining the sensation?

So this was interesting. At first, I could not see anything else than the image of the chair below me (as an explanation for the sensation). Then I looked and I looked with some pause in between, and then a thought appeared saying what if I imagine I am sitting on a chair in the plane instead of the chair in my room. Then, I thought what if there is nothing else in this universe but this feeling, this sensing... And instantly, a mixture of fear and excitement was noticed in my stomach.
The same feeling you get when you are about to jump off of a cliff. But then it disappeared immediately.
No line could be found to delimit the chair from the sensing of it.

Eyes closed. Turn your attention to your skin. Do you have Direct Experience of it being outside?

No! And interestingly enough, I realized that it's ONLY the image of the body that I have in mind when closing my eyes. If this image disappears for a moment, and if then I base my experience only on what is sensed, there is nothing...just the sensing (pressure of the chair) on certain parts of the body. Apart from that, I am one with everything :)) wow!

That's it for now. I will keep doing this for a while let's see what happens.

Thanks,
Dani