The Gate

Thanks.

'My' points to the thought division of my body.

Eyes also point to the my body division thought .

The sofa comes up post seeing 'not my body' object as a labeled concept.

'Nothing' refers just to this thought of i am sitting on the sofa. just before this thought there was seeing, feeling etc but this summation concept that i am sitting on the sofa was not there. Seeing etc just happen, so does the birth of the thoughts. Right?

Before a thought there is no thought but it arises between two thoughts as a label for reference and communication. However, there is no I per se.
Thanks

Thanks.
I replied last evening but it is not showing up. Maybe, I did not press the submit button correctly.

Here is my reply....

1. My points to the construct of the my body thoughts. But actually it points nowhere.
2. Eyes points to an optical system in place in my body thought label. Again it points to nothing.
3. The sofa is yet another thought label of the not my body thought stream. Points to nothing.
4. By nothing I meant that in ref to this statement ...i am sitting on the sofa, there was nothing as a concept before this statement was born as a thought. Experiences as seeing etc remain, of course.
5. I is not there before a thought but may be born between two thoughts. I does not point to anything per se. There is none before a thought but may be born between two thoughts as the first thought may trigger a series of my body thought streams from the memory, which may birth an I.
Thanks

Sure, Ashu

Thanks.
I have forwarded the reply above.
Thanks

My points to the construct of the my body thoughts. But actually it points nowhere.

Is it clearly seen that every time there is a thought, for e.g. "I have to visit my aunt today" "I have to turn off the stove" "did I call my brother last night?" the "I" in those thoughts DO NOT POINT TO ANY SOLID ENTITY? Rather there are just THOUGHTS ABOUT A NON EXISTING ENTITY THAT ARE BELIEVED TO BE REAL?

Eyes points to an optical system in place in my body thought label.

If it is a label, then do not write it out. Write what is here and now in DE. Every word is born out of thought. Look beyond words that labels experience into this and that (concepts). Look beyond concepts.

"I" is not there before a thought but may be born between two thoughts.

May be? Please look into this until there is certainty. This is very crucial.

Thanks.
Eyes are just sockets seeing.
And, the I doesn't point to anything. Can't be seen felt touched etc here and now.
Thanks

hi Ashu,

you did not answer the last question. Also, please use quote function and copy the pointer i gave along with your replies. It will be easy for others who follow this discussion.

Also, please do not rush in replying. LOOK a hundred times if possible before replying. Everything about thought needs to be seen for what it is.

So i ask again:

"I" is not there before a thought but may be born between two thoughts.

Is "I" born between thoughts?
What is the DE of Ashu?

Thanks.
I'll be more aware of what you say.
Thanks. I will be more aware of what you say.

As I look I feel that only when thoughts are there then the I manifests as a function of the thoughts. So, when thoughts are I is.
It has suddenly occurred that in absence of thoughts ie the gap between two thoughts there won't be a reference point and so there can be no I. It's clear now. Thoughts born is I born. No thought is no I.

What is the DE of Ashu?
Ashu remains a summation of all the thought labels since birth. There is no Ashu per se.
However, much before my conditioning started and I wore the cloak of Ashu, there was something there. It was hunger when it was hungry or cold when it felt cold. Some alien beingness was present for sure. Some battery which powered the hunger to be hungry or cold to become cold. Even if it were a remote battery or power, it was there. The basic life functions of feeling seeing touching etc as DE were there. Hence, while Ashu as a label was not there and is not there now, too, but there is someone or something that runs this matrix even when I am in deep sleep beyond my thoughts.
When you ask what is the DE of Ashu, it clearly assumes that someone is to have that DE of looking. That someone is not Ashu but when I paint with full awareness Ashu may die but the painting happens still. Someone has to paint. All artists and musicians have DE moments of shear creativity.
So, while Ashu doesn't exist for sure but there is something or someone who has the DE or who composes the lyrics or who paints.
Let's say I am attending a concert of Zubin Mehta. I am the witness. He is not Zubin is clear but as I look, I look at music happening... So as an outsider there is a DE of listening to music seeing Zubin etc. There is someone out there doing all this.
Hence, while the I and Ashu can drop comfortably this someone or something is still bugging me.
Pl explain.
Thanks
Ashu?

when thoughts are I is.

It has suddenly occurred that in absence of thoughts ie the gap between two thoughts there won't be a reference point and so there can be no I. It's clear now. Thoughts born is I born. No thought is no I.

good looking.

"I" = Thought. "Ashu" exists as only a thought story. This is simple and can been SEEN right now. In fact, "you" or "Ashu" or "ego" or "I" did not SEE this, but consciousness (or pure experiencing or brahman or undivided awareness or whatever you want to call it) saw "Ashu". With so much reading, thoughts are trying to interpret everything that goes on. Experience is simple, and it is here and now. All you need to do is drop "ideas about enlightenment" and LOOK.

What is the DE of Ashu?

Ashu remains a summation of all the thought labels since birth. There is no Ashu per se.
However, much before my conditioning started and I wore the cloak of Ashu, there was something there. It was hunger when it was hungry or cold when it felt cold. Some alien beingness was present for sure. Some battery which powered the hunger to be hungry or cold to become cold. Even if it were a remote battery or power, it was there. The basic life functions of feeling seeing touching etc as DE were there. Hence, while Ashu as a label was not there and is not there now, too, but there is someone or something that runs this matrix even when I am in deep sleep beyond my thoughts.

This is all pure story. Coming directly from thinking without knowing. What wants to know answer to these questions? Only thoughts.

"Ego" or "Ashu" or "I" or "self" is not an entity in and of itself. It is just a believed story. When you were a child, there was only pure experiencing or awareness. Then you are trained to believe "i am this" and "that i am not". This separation gives rise to beliefs that you are a separate body experiencing word and mind. but body, mind, world are all concepts. It comes from thoughts. This belief in a 'separate me' is continuously fortified by beliefs and identifications. Nothing else. The 'belief" in a "non existing self" is survived by the push and pull of experience. Suffering is a resistance to what is. Between two thoughts, where are questions?

When this belief is questioned, the thoughts (or mind) tries to understand "awareness". Can thoughts understand an experience which is devoid of thought?
The second para you wrote is coming from thoughts that wanted to understand the experience when it was absent. It is a futile experiment. Mind cannot understand what is beyond it. It is a tool. YOU are awareness. YOU only exist, not the small 'you' that thought points to.

Let's try again: What is the DE of Ashu?

Thanks.

'but consciousness (or pure experiencing or brahman or undivided awareness or whatever you want to call it) saw "Ashu"

So, its the consciousness or pure awareness experiencing....Yet another belief? What can be the DE of consciousness? When I look at this, there is nothing to look/look at???

What is the DE of Ashu?

Nothing in looking. Zero.

YOU are awareness.

Yes, I am the battery or the consciousness which simply operates this hardware and software. There is no one inside this computer. The processor/mind just processes; the keypad/voice box just expresses; the display sys/sight just shoes/sees etc. Its just an intelligent mass that functions.

There is no Ashu for the pure consciousness to experience, hence, there is no DE of Ashu.
Thanks

What can be the DE of consciousness?

this is like a Sun asking what is the direct experience of light!!
Awareness or consciousness or experiencing is all there IS.

Nothing in looking. Zero.

Does this mean there are NO THOUGHTS ABOUT ASHU?
"Experience of a thought" is TRUE, because it is there to be experienced. "What thought points to" or its "contents" are NOT REAL. So, in DE, "Ashu" exists as "Thoughts". Is this clear?

Yes, I am the battery or the consciousness which simply operates this hardware and software. There is no one inside this computer. The processor/mind just processes; the keypad/voice box just expresses; the display sys/sight just shoes/sees etc. Its just an intelligent mass that functions.

again story!! Do not "think" about "what you are" which will lead to interpretation of experience. What wants to do this? Only thoughts.
YOU ARE. Stop there. YOU ARE 'THIS' or YOU ARE 'THAT' is false. Perceive reality by rejecting the false -- belief in a non-existing separate self that thoughts point to. These beliefs like 'my body' (a part of visual image that thoughts labels as yours), 'world' (a part of visual image that thought labels as 'not you') and 'others' (part of visual image that thoughts labels as wife, son, father, mother, neighbour) are what needs to be questioned. For that you have to see things are they are before thought labels them.

This is not a special experience, and you wont see fireworks. It is not as special as purported by so called gurus and godmen. It is simple, it was always there, it is how reality already is, it is what you are by default. The veil of stories about continuously existing Ashu is the illusion.

See how thoughts (habitual mental words "i", "my") creates a belief of a non-existing "entity" or an "experiencer" that is separate from experience. When looked closely, there are only thoughts and nothing else. Lets look at other experiences as well.

For this, please do a little exercise.
Read the instructions fully and then start.

Please close your eyes and sit comfortably on a chair.
Take a few deep breaths and notice the inhalations and exhalations with focus. If lost in thought, gently return back to the sensation of breathing. DO NOT FIGHT THOUGHTS, just let it come and go as a gentle breeze.
Do this for two minutes. And then LOOK for the answers to the below questions (Key: Direct Experience)

Question 1:
In DE, is there a "hearer" that exist separate from the sounds that are heard?

What divides the experience of hearing into hearer ("i" am...), hearing (listening to ....) and heard ("sound of a car/baby")?

Question 2:
In DE, is there a "sensor" that exist separate from the sensations that are experienced?

What divides the experience of sensation into sensor ("i" can...), sensing (feel my ....) and sensed ("back touching the chair")?

Repeat the exercise as many times as required. Do not rush. Please respond individually.

Thanks.

this is like a Sun asking what is the direct experience of light!!
Awareness or consciousness or experiencing is all there IS.

Boom boom...clear

again story!! Do not "think" about "what you are" which will lead to interpretation of experience. What wants to do this? Only thoughts.
YOU ARE. Stop there.

Boom boom boom...clear

This is not a special experience, and you wont see fireworks. It is not as special as purported by so called gurus and godmen. It is simple, it was always there, it is how reality already is, it is what you are by default. The veil of stories about continuously existing Ashu is the illusion.

BOOM....CLEAR!!! Ashu is confused and cant get through the veil as he continuously sticks to his stories. On looking the veil disappears an there is only what is real the experience of truth in the now...wow. Seen seen Yureka.

Question 1:
In DE, is there a "hearer" that exist separate from the sounds that are heard?

No. Only the horn(ing) of a car(cant see), the hum(ing)of the fan, the rattling of crockery in the kitchen. Just the sound. Yes, first is the sound then is the labeling as a hum different from rattle. But no hearer. They are one.

What divides the experience of hearing into hearer ("i" am...), hearing (listening to ....) and heard ("sound of a car/baby")?

The thought alone divides the three as labeled separateness.

Question 2:
In DE, is there a "sensor" that exist separate from the sensations that are experienced?

What divides the experience of sensation into sensor ("i" can...), sensing (feel my ....) and sensed ("back touching the chair")?

No, the senor and sensation is one.
Again, the thought divides the sensor, sensing and the sensed.

Thanks. Today a port has slightly opened. The idea of Ashu has a story line and my(thought) sticking to it has been across the rope. The looking actually happened. The veil was set aside to see/look just the experience separate from the story and terabytes of thoughts.

Many many thanks.
PS - Will 'Ashu' get to meet 'Yuvi'. Wish to personally thank you post the session.

The thought alone divides the three as labeled separateness.

perfect!
Now, let's go further:

1. What divides experience into 'seeing' 'hearing' 'touching' 'thinking'?
2. Is there 'awareness' that is separate from 'experience'?
3. Are you a 'witness' of the experience?
4. Is there something called freewill?
5. How are decisions made?
6. Is there an Ashu that controls body?

Use everyday events to see this from the new perspective. It will be an interesting exercise. Beware, "me thoughts" do not like to be seen what what it is - illusion. It tries to convince with all sorts of arguments to survive. But all there is is "experience of thought" of which there are contents that are reaction born out of conditioning.

p.s. sure, we can meet. I will get in touch with you in private after the session :)

Thanks. Its been great two days. Many layers of thoughts and attendant labels have dissolved. Great to have you as my Guru here. Very HAPPY.

1. What divides experience into 'seeing' 'hearing' 'touching' 'thinking'?

The thought of sensations/sensors 'labeled' as sight, hearing, touching, thinking or feeling.

2. Is there 'awareness' that is separate from 'experience'?

No, the experience itself is the awareness or the awareness is experiencing itself.

3. Are you a 'witness' of the experience?

No, I am not. Rather cant be. When I does not exist the experiencer cannot exist and when everything happens as life happening then there is no third person or even a second person. Experience is all that is and it is happening through this frame work(thought).

4. Is there something called freewill?

No, there cant be any free will. Free will of whom? There is no one there as the doer or experiencer of free will. It is just will willing and everything happening.

5. How are decisions made?

They are made automatically by a series of inputs to the framework. There is no one to MAKE them. No one. One input one decision, another input another decision.

6. Is there an Ashu that controls body?

Ashu was cremated in our last session.' His' belongings and booksssssss are up for sale. When he never was and the one who was is dead, how can he control anything. Period. Dead and buried.


Yuvi,

Its almost like a load of centuries off my head. The glue to the I has gone. The I does pop up in the display window, but just as another drop down menu. Its a joy of lightness, occasionally punctuated by the I standing on the Empire State Building like a Batman and saying like Arnold...'I'LL BE BACK'. But with this profound new direct experience, life has become life. Its just living for the first time truly. Liberated(thought) from unawareness to conscious awareness.
A big hug and thank you for the journey so far. 'I' am still looking to listen more from you..
Thanks

I am so glad you are able to see how life without "I" story is effortless.. i was also laughing at your 'book for sale' remark! it is true that too much reading can actually make you miss the point. I am not your guru (a very problematic word), but a friend :)

Seeing through this illusion - an imagined self that thought points to - does not stop 'I' thoughts from appearing again. Infact, you will continue to experience everything - stuck in stories of me, negative emotions, etc. But what is seen cannot be unseen. Without a 'me' to stick to, these conditioned mental patterns will erode eventually.

I am not sure who told this, but this metaphor captures my point: "Like a fan that is unplugged, the blades start to slow down and will eventually stop." We also have dedicated LU Facebook groups (which is secret to public view) where people like us continue to share and support each other in this journey. You will be contacted for that in the coming days (entirely voluntary).

As a part of LU process, my fellow guides will take a look at this conversation and may ask few questions. Just to ensure that there is nothing missed out. This may take a day or two. I will write back to you when I get their replies.