The Gate

Hi Mark,

Ummmm I think I'm through the gate. Last night I pretty much battled with myself to see this and then all of a sudden my head stopped hurting. I felt calm and almost like WTF just happened, excuse my language....lol.

What is clear now is that I was holding onto fear! Fear of loosing control of my life because there was no 'me' to steer it. Then I realised this 'I', this 'self' hasn't been doing it all this time anyway so why is this body still holding on. So after sometime of rationalising I guess you could call it, everything was calm. Nothing major happend, there was no fireworks, no violins playing, just calm. Life is just life! I think it comes down to accepting that life is just life and to flow with it and to realise that everything is thought and labels. Labels, labels, labels, everything is a label including 'self'.

Olivia is a word/label that society gave to describe this body walking the earth.

I was holding onto that word 'self' but all it is, is a label. It's a thought! Everything is thought and feeling.

Society has conditioned us so much that it takes courage and a real desire to see through and get this.

So simple, I almost feel cheated that there wasn't a big parade with fireworks and all when I let go of the 'self'.

I think I'm through the gate Mark but I guess I can never be sure. I just feel this sense of awareness I guess about life now, I feel much lighter.

What do you think, am I through?

Olivia

Hi Olivia,

Thanks for both of those responses. The struggle and the falling away of struggle: great! Let's keep checking by looking, shall we?

I think I'm through the gate Mark but I guess I can never be sure. I just feel this sense of awareness I guess about life now, I feel much lighter.

1. What individual is there there to be 'through the gate'? And what invidivual has there ever been there to be 'not through the gate'? Please report on all the sensations which are presenting, not only the actual answers to these questions.

Thinking hunger

2. Conjure this up again, could you? Is it truly a thought, or is it a bodily feeling, followed by a thought commentary (eg something about food)? Try to describe that please: the (E)s and the (T)s.
Is there any individual there having the feeling, having the thought, or are there just the feelings and thoughts?

3. I would like you to do a little exercise: stand up slowly and walk 5 paces and then slowly walk back and sit down again, carefully considering what is happening. What happens? Is there anyone there controlling all of that? As always report on all the sensations which come up.

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

1.

What individual is there there to be 'through the gate'? And what invidivual has there ever been there to be 'not through the gate'? Please report on all the sensations which are presenting, not only the actual answers to these questions.

No individual to be through the gate
Yes that's right, there has never been an individual to be not through the gate
I can tell you only one sensation at the moment, that is a feeling of 'space' , this knowing that everything is just happening. Ahhhh feels good.

I mean I'm still living life and being a busy mum but I have this sense of space in me now, it feels wonderful. It's not anything massive like oh wow I felt this massive change....no no, this is very subtle, very still, just knowing that there is nobody, no self, no 'I'.

2.

Conjure this up again, could you? Is it truly a thought, or is it a bodily feeling, followed by a thought commentary (eg something about food)? Try to describe that please: the (E)s and the (T)s.
Is there any individual there having the feeling, having the thought, or are there just the feelings and thoughts?

Ok. I can say the word hungry but nothing really happens. There is just feelings and thoughts. still a constant stream of thoughts, they never stop. I have had feelings all day as well, I just have this space in the middle of it all now.

3. I would like you to do a little exercise: stand up slowly and walk 5 paces and then slowly walk back and sit down again, carefully considering what is happening. What happens? Is there anyone there controlling all of that? As always report on all the sensations which come up.

Walking happens, that's all that happens, nobody making the walking happen.
It's freaky!
I pondered your question and went shopping. So lots of people around and I did lots of seeing, hearing, walking,touching ect. There is nobody here doing all of that its all just happening. I feel the lightness of this space and the heaviness of the body at the same time.

'I' hope this lasts forever!

olivia

Hi Olivia,

Sounding good!

'I' hope this lasts forever!

What is there there to benefit from this, or to hope? Is there an individual?
Can 'forever' be found anywhere but in thoughts? In firsthand direct experience right now try to experience anything outside of this very moment. Is there really anything except the happening/experience of this moment?

Now imagine for a moment a scene: one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high. Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side. Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground, the grass, weather conditions etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or is it more the product of environmental conditions and water, like an an ever-changing pattern?

A. Now, consider: can you find anywhere where 'I' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements, that is not a part of the overall flow?

B. Now please consider a regular decision made, eg what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from: any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!). etc etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find somewhere?

Cheers

Mark

Hello mark,

What is there there to benefit from this, or to hope? Is there an individual?
Can 'forever' be found anywhere but in thoughts? In firsthand direct experience right now try to experience anything outside of this very moment. Is there really anything except the happening/experience of this moment?

no individual Mark, nothing to last forever because there is only now, there can only be now. Forever is just a thought from my conditioning.

Now imagine for a moment a scene: one of a little mountain stream which is tumbling down a hillside gully, not far from its source. It has been raining and so the level is quite high. Consider in your mind's eye, if you can, how it flows to the right over a little rock (where, had the level been lower, it would probably have gone around the rock), then the flow goes to the left over a tree bow, and then slows a little in a broader place, before splashing over a small cascade into a pool, and so on down the mountain side. Does it choose any of its directions? Is it even really a separate entity different from the water deposited in it, the rocks, the depressions in the ground, the grass, weather conditions etc? Is it even the same entity moment by moment, or is it more the product of environmental conditions and water, like an an ever-changing pattern?

water does not choose its direction it just goes with the flow. It is not a different entity from its source. This is what I now need to do, go with the flow which I am doing now, more and more. Trust in the process. That's a big thing to do but it is happening.

A. Now, consider: can you find anywhere where 'I' autonomously intervenes into life, choosing something that is not the product of all the elements, that is not a part of the overall flow?

No definitely no cant find 'I' intervening anywhere.

B.

Now please consider a regular decision made, eg what to wear in the morning, or what to eat for lunch, and describe to me what happens. There are environmental factors, there are colour preferences (but where did those come from: any autonomous intervention there perhaps?), practical issues (such as what is available), available time for preparation, purpose (eg need to fill up for the day, or to look hip and cool for that person!). etc etc. Where in there is an autonomous entity intervening in the flow of life? Can you find somewhere?

Things are chosen, clothes are put on, teeth are brushed, food is eaten.

I am amazed about what an amazing creation this body is. It's working purely from conditioning, thought, feelings.
More and more today I have caught my thoughts and don't get involved in the story. There is nobody, no 'I' , no 'self' here. I don't know how else to say it. Just thoughts based on conditioning and feelings.

I am in awe of the body, what an amazing creation.

Mark I have so many questions now and I now I feel that some other stuff is coming up into question that I need to work out, where do I go from here.

Please know that I'm using ' I, am, and any other word referring to this body just to describe this body,mind. I know there is no 'I'.

Olivia

Hi Mark,

Just wanted to let you know other things that are still happening. Some realisations, stronger ones now.

I have just been writing and writing as they are coming. Here goes:

Sitting here, just hearing - label
Just breathing, thinking - all labels, but without the labels how to describe, can't
Non of this needs any help from an 'I' this is all that is happening, just this, just this now. This is reality, just this.

There is no owner of this space in this body, this space belongs to no 'I's" all bodies,personalities share this space (soul). All of us are part of it! We are all one. We are all being lived through it.

Today for some reason I feel deceived about the 43 yrs on this planet. This will go soon. If only I knew this sooner I say, but what would of changed if I knew this sooner if I'm being lived anyway? I don't know, my conditioning tells me I just would be better at going with the flow of life by now.

Yawning: the body needs oxygen (I read that somewhere) so it yawns, 'I' did not make it yawn.

Letting go even more now:
Sitting here reading,drinking coffee, laughing, talking,.....all conditioning! I'm am letting life just flow.

Mark I feel I'm still in baby stages here because I'm swinging from flowing to not flowing, from remembering to not remembering.

I have this question that keeps coming up:

If this body has been conditioned to think like it does, can there be unconditioning? Can thinking be changed? There is a feeling that 'I' still have volition, but I'm am only picking things from my conditioning, is that really volition? Don't think so.

Thanks for your time and patience.

Olivia

Hi Olivia

Thanks for those two posts. Definitely looks like something is happening. Don't worry, this is a bit like a birthing/midwifing process with things to attend to before, AND after, lots of questions, lots of rapidly changing experiences and perceptions. This is perfectly normal.

Please consider the following. As ever, don't just answer, but also notice and report on any sensations which come up:-

water does not choose its direction it just goes with the flow. It is not a different entity from its source. This is what I now need to do, go with the flow which I am doing now, more and more. Trust in the process. That's a big thing to do but it is happening.
Ok, so is there any individual there who can 'not go with the flow'?
Now, important consideration: has there EVER truly been an individual there who could not go with the flow?
Please take a look, and tell me whether you can find an example of where an autonomous individual called Olivia truly intervened in life, stopped something or started something 'singlehandedly'?

question that I need to work out, where do I go from here.

What are you responsible for?
Who is there there to be responsible?
Please try to find an example, then we can look into it.

If this body has been conditioned to think like it does, can there be unconditioning? Can thinking be changed? There

Conditioning is, it would seem, stored in the neuro-physical organism (body plus neuronal aspects such as brain, nerves etc), is it not? As thinking and beliefs are questioned and seen through, how can behaviour and thought patterns NOT change? (Maybe at different rates of change, depending on how ingrained or unquestioned any particular behaviour or thought pattern is). But the question I would put to you to consider here is this: is any of this 'Olivia's job or responsibility? Is there suddenly an autonomous individual who is responsible for this aspect of 'her development'? How does this aspect differ from the mountain stream?

There is a feeling that 'I' still have volition, but I'm am only picking things from my conditioning, is that really volition? Don't think so.

Well spotted, top of the class! Look closely, is that truly a feeling that "I" still have volition, or more a belief or part of a belief system? If there is a curiosity to look, then look! We can look together, for example.

Cheers

Mark

hi mark,

Ok, so is there any individual there who can 'not go with the flow'?
Now, important consideration: has there EVER truly been an individual there who could not go with the flow?
Please take a look, and tell me whether you can find an example of where an autonomous individual called Olivia truly intervened in life, stopped something or started something 'singlehandedly'?

It's funny, I know there is nobody here to go with the flow, but when I sit and ponder the question I feel like I have to concentrate to 'flow'. There is this space that I feel, however, when life is busy I am not even thinking about there is no 'I' or flowing I'm just doing life, i have moments of clarity and then back to normal again.

There has never been an individual, which is crazy! blows the brain.
It is impossible for Olivia to have stopped or started something. Olivia has never existed.

What are you responsible for?
Who is there there to be responsible?
Please try to find an example, then we can look into it.

So frustrating mark, I know there is nobody responsible, but I still have this thing that I have to think about everything logically before I can move forward. there is nothing to be responsible for, it's all just being done. Now the brain kicks in and says ummm I don't think so. Then I realise that it's only a thought. Gosh!

is any of this 'Olivia's job or responsibility? Is there suddenly an autonomous individual who is responsible for this aspect of 'her development'? How does this aspect differ from the mountain stream?

No non of this is Olivia's responsibility, Olivia does not exist, life is just being done and choices and decisions are being made from conditioning. You are right, thinking will change when beliefs start breaking down. There is nothing to be done. Just be.

is that truly a feeling that "I" still have volition, or more a belief or part of a belief system? If there is a curiosity to look, then look! We can look together, for example.

Ok this was one of those moments of trying to work it out logically. So it's part of a belief system that I think is falling down because I would never have thought that before. I would of just always thought I had total free will!

Tell me then Mark why if I know there is no 'me', no 'I', no self. If I know that this Olivia does not exist. If I know that Olivia is just a word, a name given to me by society, if I know that all that is happening is what is happening right now and nothing more, why if I feel this wonderful peaceful space in me and why if I know that up till now all 'I' have been is a thought, why am I still going backwards and forwards. I know there is no permanent state but I find that I have to remind myself all the time that there is no "me" otherwise I just go back to normal, normal meaning forgetting. Is that right?

Olivia

Hi Olivia,

Thanks for that response.

Tell me then Mark why if I know there is no 'me', no 'I', no self. If I know that this Olivia does not exist. If I know that Olivia is just a word, a name given to me by society, if I know that all that is happening is what is happening right now and nothing more, why if I feel this wonderful peaceful space in me and why if I know that up till now all 'I' have been is a thought, why am I still going backwards and forwards. I know there is no permanent state but I find that I have to remind myself all the time that there is no "me" otherwise I just go back to normal, normal meaning forgetting. Is that right?

I cannot really answer the question 'why', Olivia. Only make suggestions: Old habits die hard sometimes? The thinking mechanism does not always give up all aspects of conditioning straight away? Some deeply ingrained aspects may take months, years, a lifetime? This is a beginning, not an ending? A ship turns around slowly, not on a sixpence?

How would you answer that question 'why', if someone asked you? (Maybe they will ask you, one day soon!)

Please consider this, with anything that arises suggesting a separate 'me': can you find ANY example where 'Olivia' - unlike the little mountain stream - can take credit or blame for anything that has been changed, started or stopped in 'her life' (or rather 'this life')?

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

How would you answer that question 'why', if someone asked you? (Maybe they will ask you, one day soon!)

I actually really like what you said Mark, but I have to say i remembered what was written in the Gateless Gate book, i really love how this got explained. I guess this is how I would answer it, but im quoting from Ilona.

Years of conditioning and programming don’t disappear immediately. There is a clean-up time, a settling in period that is unique to everybody.
But once something is seen, it cannot be unseen, so life gets a very different flavour. That flavour is the sweet taste of freedom.
It is not the end of suffering; it’s seeing that there is no sufferer. And it leads to freedom to experience without the frustrating need to change anything. With frustration and neediness absent, changing what does need to change becomes much more straightforward.

I know these are not my words but I really like how it was explained.

Please consider this, with anything that arises suggesting a separate 'me': can you find ANY example where 'Olivia' - unlike the little mountain stream - can take credit or blame for anything that has been changed, started or stopped in 'her life' (or rather 'this life')?

Hmmm, you obviously want something from me here because you are asking this question again. This is what i have to say about his now:

'Olivia' cannot take credit for anything, she does not exist. However, what you asked here

with anything that arises suggesting a separate 'me'

this bit here was interesting, what arises is bravado, arrogance, chest hitting, 'i'm all that' kinda thinking, the part that 'thinks' separate still says 'Olivia' DID and can take credit for what changed, started or stopped in 'this life'. There is still this holding on! even though I know there is nothing to hold onto. hahahahaha what is it going to take to push me through this gate....lol. This is amazing, i really had to dig deep for this one.

Mark, I think you are going to have to get brutal here with me. What am I missing? The other day i thought i had made it through the gate for sure, because of how i felt inside and with this new knowing. But here I am still fighting, even though there is nothing to fight, there is no one to fight! this is the definition of insanity.....lol.

Olivia
ps: I think i need to you to just throw me through the gate

Hi Olivia

Mark, I think you are going to have to get brutal here with me. What am I missing? The other day i thought i had made it through the gate for sure, because of how i felt inside and with this new knowing. But here I am still fighting, even though there is nothing to fight, there is no one to fight! this is the definition of insanity.....lol

What is 'someone getting through the gate' but more illusion? What individual is there to get through anything? What is there but this alive moment, just as it is'?

Once it is seen that there never was anyone separate from the rest of life, no one able to 'get anything', but just this experience, then that is the 'gateless gate crossed' Olivia. If this is correct, then is not the only thing to be done: to look, moment by moment?

Going back to what we said at the beginning, this is not about attaining something new, but about seeing what always has been, and can only ever be the case.

So let's get back to a practical exercise. Again sit for two minutes, noticing all that happens. Make a little list. And add to each item either (T) for a thought, theory, assumption, mental speculation, (E) for whatever is sensed via the senses.
Now, once you have the list, does any of that (the (T)'s or the (E)'s) make a real separate 'I"?
Is any of it not happening in this moment?
Is any of it not alive?

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

What is 'someone getting through the gate' but more illusion? What individual is there to get through anything? What is there but this alive moment, just as it is'?

Yes, yes, i see that, i know that, there is nobody. Just this space looking at the world through these eyes.

Once it is seen that there never was anyone separate from the rest of life, no one able to 'get anything', but just this experience, then that is the 'gateless gate crossed' Olivia. If this is correct, then is not the only thing to be done: to look, moment by moment?

I completely agree, there is only moment to moment. Today Mark, i feel much more relaxed or something. I have this space just looking through my 'face' i don't know any other way to say that. English language is very constricting here. I sat this morning in silence just listening, breathing, looking, then i could sense this 'self' in me but i can also feel this space behind my whole face just looking out really. I sat and felt into the body, what i felt was 'self' and 'space' as separate, there is still fear Mark to be a no 'self' but its not as bad as it was.

So let's get back to a practical exercise. Again sit for two minutes, noticing all that happens. Make a little list. And add to each item either (T) for a thought, theory, assumption, mental speculation, (E) for whatever is sensed via the senses.
Now, once you have the list, does any of that (the (T)'s or the (E)'s) make a real separate 'I"?
Is any of it not happening in this moment?
Is any of it not alive?

Typing
breathing
looking
feeling this space
thinking about where my daughter is
sitting
feeling the chair under me
how can Mark do this all time, must have the patience of a saint
feel the keys as a type
feel this excitment, joy (i have no idea why)
How do i tell Mark, im struggling to come up with a thought
everything is a process
wow i feel good
just staring
just sitting
my head tingles
ahhhhh this feels good
really wanted a mercedes.....now, just feeling so good
voices in the distance
feel like i need to change scenery so that this space can experience something better
just here, the heart area of this body is alive!
feeling like the head 'space' and the heart 'space' are coming together, heart 'space' feels 'love', i don't know
feel like an alien is in the head
body is just being used to experience
strange talking to people with this face thing happening
it does not leave

everything is happening right now this minute Mark, it's all alive!
These eyes are just being used to view the world

Ok, I'm excited, what's next.

Olivia

HI Olivia

I sat and felt into the body, what i felt was 'self' and 'space' as separate, there is still fear Mark to be a no 'self' but its not as bad as it was.

Every time something like this happens (and it can happen here too on occasion), can that fear be embraced. Can it be given attention, and all the attributes of its bodily sensations be noticed, welcomed? Can they be noticed in detail? (ie their size, shape, location in the body, any movements, even maybe apparent colour)? Can they be welcomed like a little child or a pet or a teddy come for attention and affection?
Could they even be asked if they have something to tell us? (Then leave a space and just listen, and/or just see if any mental imagery comes up)? (Maybe it will, maybe it won't).
Can they be noticed as they stay as long as they stay and then go when they are ready?
Can it be noticed whether any of these sensations make 'a separate Olivia', or whether they are simply a 'flow of life' happening in this moment?
This is an exercise which I use whenever an appaarently unpleasant emotion or sensation or resistance to comes up. It can be used again and again.

Ok, I'm excited, what's next.

At the beginning we said that we will be looking into what can only ever, and has always only ever been the case. It seems as though this has been seen, but I'll ask you straight now:-

1. Can any individual called Olivia be found anywhere? Has there ever been such an entity in reality?

2. Is anything at fault with THIS MOMENT? (pause, sense, let me know).

Cheers

Mark

Hi Mark,

Every time something like this happens (and it can happen here too on occasion), can that fear be embraced. Can it be given attention, and all the attributes of its bodily sensations be noticed, welcomed?

Since I last wrote, things have changed Mark. I sat for a bit and tried to see if that fear is still here, I don't feel it now. I haven't done anything to get rid of it, or allow it at all. I have been at work all day and very busy. I have however, been having moments of nothingness, like just pure nowness (words can't really explain).

Can they be noticed in detail? (ie their size, shape, location in the body, any movements, even maybe apparent colour)?

I even tried this to see if I could conjure it up, I can't

Can they be welcomed like a little child or a pet or a teddy come for attention and affection?
Could they even be asked if they have something to tell us? (Then leave a space and just listen, and/or just see if any mental imagery comes up)? (Maybe it will, maybe it won't).

Nope

Can they be noticed as they stay as long as they stay and then go when they are ready?

This is happening but not with fear, well at least I don't think so. It's happening with other thoughts, and feelings, like frustration.

Can it be noticed whether any of these sensations make 'a separate Olivia', or whether they are simply a 'flow of life' happening in this moment?

My last post stated that there was still this separateness, now I'm not so sure. There is a flow of life happening but I feel that I have to not be busy, I have to be still to feel it.

At the beginning we said that we will be looking into what can only ever, and has always only ever been the case. It seems as though this has been seen, but I'll ask you straight now:-

1. Can any individual called Olivia be found anywhere? Has there ever been such an entity in reality?

There is no 'Olivia' there never has been, I can find thoughts, feelings, sensations, the body, and all that was given the name Olivia. Today as I sit and write this in the park looking at the trees,hearing the birds, watching the sunset,I find no separateness in this body.

Is anything at fault with THIS MOMENT? (pause, sense, let me know).

Sticking point right here, I feel strange in that I feel this moment is so pure so clean, there is nothing at fault, just this spacious ahhhhh, then the thoughts come and say what about bills, the kids, goals, desires ect. Then I question, is this really all there is?

What is that? I feel I'm still in baby stages of something, but I will leave it up to you as to what that something is.

Olivia

Hi Olivia

the thoughts come and say what about bills, the kids, goals, desires ect. Then I question, is this really all there is?

Will it be ok just to watch those thought (T) go by, like clouds across the sky? Are we really asking that no more thoughts arise, no more clouds pass across the sky? Do those thought mean that there is now a separate self?

This is happening but not with fear, well at least I don't think so. It's happening with other thoughts, and feelings, like frustration.

Then do the whole procedure for the frustration. It is meant for any 'contrary' feelings.

My last post stated that there was still this separateness, now I'm not so sure. There is a flow of life happening but I feel that I have to not be busy, I have to be still to feel it.

Was there ever really a separateness. Say you get really busy (you might like to try it, take things in and out of the fridge several times, think about the kids at school etc.
Now, try NOT to feel the flow of life. Try to feel the separateness. How did that go? Was it a truly a feeling (E) or was it an interpretation of something (T)?

What is that? I feel I'm still in baby stages of something, but I will leave it up to you as to what that something is.

Yes, baby steps, a good way of putting it. But I will not be deciding for you what that something is! Is there even any way of describing it adequately? Suffice it to say that this 'is this really all there is' might actually be a pretty big something (eg much bigger and more exciting than what 'we' thought 'it' was!!!?

Cheers

Mark