Free From What?

[Nina45]

Hi Chris,

These responses were very helpful. It is now seen that feelings are really sensations + thought label.

Great :)

That is really insteresting. Is it true that "I am" seems to create a story about experience being "good" or "bad"?

This is also a thought, so it’s not true.

Ha Ha this made me smile :). Yes, the Actual Experience of thought is real but the content of thought is not real.

Try this exercise for clarity:

If you were in a desert, dying of thirst, could you quench your thirst just by thinking about water (thoughts) or would you need to drink ‘real’ water?

Let’s say I’m with you in the desert and offer you two options:

(1) In my left hand there is a piece of paper with the word ‘water’ written on it, and
(2) in my right hand there is a bottle of water.

Which one would you choose to quench your thirst, the label or the water?

So, can the label ‘water’, which is actual experience (AE) of thought, quench your thirst?

Does "I" always start a story?

All thoughts are in a story, and “I” can only be in thought. So yes.

Great clarity :).
So what is "I" in Actual Experience?

What is "suffering" in Actual Experience?

A thought and a sensation.

Great clarity :). The sensation is Actual Experience and the thought is Actual Experience. However, the content of thought is story so is not real. The stories about suffering contibute to the story of the seperate individual who suffers.
Is this clear?

The exercise was fun. It really strips away the thought stories that cover the actual experience. It’s still a story, just a shorter one.

Really great Looking Chris!
Some thought labels point directly to Actual Experience. So "yellow" is a thought label but points directly to an experience of colour. Similar with the lables sensation, smell, sound and taste. So although the label are not "real" that point to an actual experience.

This exercise is great for clarifying:

What is a rose?
Perhaps a nice red and green flower with a pleasant smell and some sharp thorns?
But look again - all that is ‘actually’ present are red and green, a nice smell and maybe an 'ouch' sensation.
The ‘rose itself’ is only a story.
Notice that all things that seem to exist are just like the rose, just fictional stories about experience.
Beyond the story, can any of them be found to exist at all?

Let me know how the exercises go!

Thanks very much Chris.

Best Wishes

Nina

[C$$]

Hey Nina,

Thank you for your responses and here are mine.

If you were in a desert, dying of thirst, could you quench your thirst just by thinking about water (thoughts) or would you need to drink ‘real’ water?

I would need real water.

Which one would you choose to quench your thirst, the label or the water?

The water, please.

So, can the label ‘water’, which is actual experience (AE) of thought, quench your thirst?

No.

So what is "I" in Actual Experience?

A thought.

Is this clear?

Yes.

What is a rose?

A thought label, image/color, sensation, and smell. Taste if you wanted to. ;)

Beyond the story, can any of them be found to exist at all?

No rose can be found; only senses present in actual experience.

No question can ever be answered truthfully. One can only point to the truth contained in awareness.
For example, if you asked what a strawberry looked like, a verbal description would always fall short. Showing you a strawberry would be the only honest answer I could give, and I’m not even giving it, it is simply pointed to.

Looking forward to the next exercises.

Thank you,
Chris

[Nina45]

Hi Chris,

So what is "I" in Actual Experience?

A thought.

Exactly :)

Let's LOOK more deeply at thought.
Sit for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear and notice what the thought actually is - words, images, bits of music - whatever appears.

Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying, and rather just notice how they appear, without you doing anything at all.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Where are they coming from?
Where are they going?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you push away any thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?
Can anything choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Can anything pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to control any thoughts?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence?
Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Please look carefully when doing this exercise and answer all questions individually using the quote function.
There are a lot of questions but it is important to answer all of them!

No question can ever be answered truthfully. One can only point to the truth contained in awareness.

What is "truth" in actual experience?
How is a question, an answer or the truth known?

What is "the truth contained in awareness" in actual experience?
How is awareness known exactly?
Where is awareness located exactly?
Does awareness have a sensation, colour, smell, taste or sound?
Can awareness contain anything?

For example, if you asked what a strawberry looked like, a verbal description would always fall short. Showing you a strawberry would be the only honest answer I could give, and I’m not even giving it, it is simply pointed to.

What is "strawberry" in actual experience"?

How is "honesty" known in actual experience?

What is it that is seeking to give an "honest answer"?

Really have a good LOOK Chris.
What is it that holds beliefs about honesty and truth?
Where is the location of this believer in honesty and truth?
Are there sensations associated with the believer who is honest and truthful?


That is quite a lot of LOOKing!

Good luck

Very best wishes

Nina

[C$$]

Hey Nina,

Thank you for your responses and exercises. It was very easy to get lost in a thought story during the 30 minute exercise.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No, they just appear.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No.

Where are they coming from?

Nothing.

Where are they going?

Nothing.

Can you predict your next thought?

No.

Can you push away any thought?

No.

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

No, but that would be nice.

Can you stop thinking a thought in the middle?

No.

Can anything choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

No.

Can anything pick and choose any kind of thought?

No.

Is it possible to control any thoughts?

No.

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence?

No.

Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Just another thought.

What is "truth" in actual experience?

It’s a thought in actual experience.

How is a question, an answer or the truth known?

It arises as a thought in actual experience.

What is "the truth contained in awareness" in actual experience?

A thought.

How is awareness known exactly?

Awareness is known by the senses in actual experience.

Where is awareness located exactly?

It does not have a location because it does not exist as “some thing”. It forms all “things” so it is everywhere.

Does awareness have a sensation, colour, smell, taste or sound?

No, they appear in and as awareness.

Can awareness contain anything?

Yes, it contains everything.

What is "strawberry" in actual experience"?

A thought.

How is "honesty" known in actual experience?

A thought.

What is it that is seeking to give an "honest answer"?

The thought “I”.

What is it that holds beliefs about honesty and truth?

A thought.

Where is the location of this believer in honesty and truth?

Nowhere.

Are there sensations associated with the believer who is honest and truthful?

No.

Thank you,
Chris

[Nina45]

Hi Chris,

Really great LOOKing with the thought exercise. :)
There is indeed no indication of where thoughts are coming from or where they are going.
It is impossible to predict the next thought.
There is nothing in control.

It was very easy to get lost in a thought story during the 30 minute exercise.

Oh yes!
What is it that gets lost in thought?
Have a good look.

What is "truth" in actual experience?

It’s a thought in actual experience.

Yes. Honesty and truth are thoughts in Actual Experience.
They are concepts and beliefs which can be a convincing part of identity.
"I am an honest peson"; "The truth is important to me".
Often there does seem to be sensation attached to belief .... "This is my belief and I live by this".
The sensation seems to make everything much more convincing.

"Seeking" seemed to be important to "the identity of Chris", full of thought and sensation:

I have been casually "seeking" for many years, but over the past year it has become an obsession. It's like a fire. I've tried extinguishing it with books, satsangs, mediations, and yoga; but it seems to grow stronger everyday.

How is seeking now? Please write about what is going on.

How is awareness known exactly?

Awareness is known by the senses in actual experience.

Is is possible to find the place where sound stops and awareness begins?
Please say exactly where this is.

Is it possible to find the place where seeing stops and awareness begins?
Where exactly does the seer stop and seeing being?

Where is the dividing line between awareness of taste and tasting?
Is there a clear distinction between taster and tasting?

Is there a difference between a thought about awareness and any other thought?

Sit for a few minutes, eyes closed, watching sensation.
Where is the dividing line between sensation and watching the sensation?
LOOK really carefully.

Now LOOK back at what is doing the Looking. What is there?

Thanks Chris!

Looking forward to tomorrow's responses.

Very best of wishes

Nina

[C$$]

Hey Nina,

Thank you again for these responses and exercises.

What is it that gets lost in thought?

Attention seems to get lost in thought. But what is attention? Attention might be another word for awareness.

How is seeking now?

Seeking has shifted from trying to obtain, to seeing what already is. There is still the habitual pattern of identifying with thought.

Is is possible to find the place where sound stops and awareness begins?

They arise simultaneously.

Is it possible to find the place where seeing stops and awareness begins?

No, they happen in the same moment.

Where exactly does the seer stop and seeing being?

It can’t be found to be separate.

Where is the dividing line between awareness of taste and tasting?

They happen at the same time.

Is there a clear distinction between taster and tasting?

Nope.

Is there a difference between a thought about awareness and any other thought?

Both are just thoughts.

Where is the dividing line between sensation and watching the sensation?

There is no line. Sensation cannot be experienced without the watching of sensation. The watching of sensation cannot happen without sensation.

Now LOOK back at what is doing the Looking. What is there?

There is only looking. O_O

Thoughts keep arising as new concepts to see the world more accurately, like that it's all a dream-movie, but all concepts are limited and simply thoughts. But these thoughts are arising anyways.

Looking forward to your response and next exercise.

-Chris

[Nina45]

Hi Chris,

This conversation is going really well! Thank you for your committment to LOOKing and answering the questions.

What is it that gets lost in thought?

Attention seems to get lost in thought. But what is attention? Attention might be another word for awareness.

What is "attention" in Actual Experience?
Is it seperate at all from actual experience?

Is it possible to find the place where seeing stops and awareness begins?

No, they happen in the same moment.

Great clarity :).
What is "awareness" in actual experience?
Is it seperate at all from Actual Experience?

Now LOOK back at what is doing the Looking. What is there?

There is only looking. O_O

Fantastic clarity! :)

Thoughts keep arising as new concepts to see the world more accurately, like that it's all a dream-movie, but all concepts are limited and simply thoughts. But these thoughts are arising anyways.

Thought will keep running! Thoughts happen. Actual Experience happens.
Do concepts arise "to see the world more accurately"? Or is that another thought?
Are thoughts like "a dream-movie"? or is that another thought?

How is seeking now?

Seeking has shifted from trying to obtain, to seeing what already is. There is still the habitual pattern of identifying with thought.

Great :)

Let's get away from thought for a while!


Try LOOKING at this:

Here is an interesting exercise on the body.
Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Pay attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc.) before replying.

Have some fun with it!

Very best wishes

Nina

[C$$]

Hey Nina,

Thank you! It's my pleasure to LOOK and answer these questions.

What is "attention" in Actual Experience?

A thought label.

Is it separate at all from actual experience?

No, it is the actual experience labeled as attention.

What is "awareness" in actual experience?

A thought.

Is it seperate at all from Actual Experience?

No, it is a concept that only points to Actual Experience.

Do concepts arise "to see the world more accurately"? Or is that another thought?

That is another thought.

Are thoughts like "a dream-movie"? or is that another thought?

Just another thought.

Can it be known how tall the body is?

No.

Does the body have a weight or volume?

No.

In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?

No.

Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

No.

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - inside of what exactly?

Neither, only sensation.

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The sensations, sight, smell, taste, sound; of an apparent body.

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Sensations, sight, smell, taste, and sounds. But no body can be found, only senses appearing.
There is no talking, only hearing speech happening. Speaking and hearing are the same. Thinking and hearing thoughts are the same.

Looking forward to your responses.

Thanks again,
Chris

[Nina45]

Hi Chris!

Great LOOKing at the "body"! What we think of as 'the body" is just that: what we THINK of as "the body".

Just a couple of things:

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?

The sensations, sight, smell, taste, sound; of an apparent body.

Yes - there is just Actual Experience of sensation, taste, sound, colour, smell and thought.
But ......
Does a thought label know anything about sensation, taste, sound, colour and sound?
Does sensation, taste, sound or colour know any thing about a thought label?
What is "body" actually?

What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Sensations, sight, smell, taste, and sounds. But no body can be found, only senses appearing.

Yes! No body can be found in sensation, colour, smell, taste and sound.
There is a "body" to be found in Actual Experience though.
What is the Actual experience of "body"?

There is no talking, only hearing speech happening. Speaking and hearing are the same. Thinking and hearing thoughts are the same.

Almost! But let's look a little closer.

Is there hearing or is there just sound?
Is there something hearing or is there sound happening?
Is there an ear that "hears"? Or is there just sound?
What is "hearing" in actual experience?

"Speaking" is the actual experience of sound + sensation + the thought label "speaking".
Is this clear?

What is "thinking" in actual experince?
Is there a seperate individual doing the thinking?

Sound in "thought" (mental sound) is indeed the actual experience of sound.
Colour in "thought" (mental colour) is the actual experience of colour. (*Colour is the actual experience, rather than "image". Study any object .... "shape" and "form" are thought labels. Colour is the AE).
The same for taste and sensation.

To clarify, here is an example about the 'body:

"Imagine" this: ‘You’ are sitting in a chair, eating popcorn watching TV (Story). What are the smells, sounds, colours, tastes and sensations that arise?

The thought/sentence 'you are sitting in a chair, eating popcorn watching TV’ is the actual experience (AE) of 'thought' and NOT the AE of 'you sitting in a chair, eating popcorn watching TV'.

The sensation that is associated with the chair that SEEMS to be ‘pressure of the chair against the body’ is the actual experience (AE) of ‘sensation’ and NOT the AE of ‘chair’ or ‘body’.

The sound the TV seems to make is the AE of ‘sound’ and is not the AE of ‘TV’ or ‘hearing’

The body that is seemingly ‘seen’ sitting in a chair is the AE of ‘colour/images’ and not the AE of ‘body’ or ‘seeing/sight’.

The seeming smell of 'popcorn' is the AE of ‘smell’ and not the AE of ‘popcorn’

The seeming taste of ‘popcorn’ is the AE of ‘taste’ and not the AE of ‘popcorn’.

Mental images may not always be seen, however there is an idea of what is being referred to and where on the ‘body’ it is pointing to.

So when you see 'yourself' sitting in a chair and you see ‘legs’, ‘arms’, and ‘stomach’, is that not recognisable as actual experience of colour/image of 'parts of the body'?

Really look. Say "shoulder", "leg", "arms", "elbow", "nose" ..... what is the actual experience?



Very best wishes

Nina

[C$$]

Hi Nina,

These questions were very clarifying. Especially the concept of hearing vs sound. Hearing is experienced as sound and then labeled “hearing”. It was thought earlier that hearing and sound were the same since they arise together. The word sound is often used as a noun, but sound itself is only experienced.

Does a thought label know anything about sensation, taste, sound, colour and sound?

No, it is only a concept and completely separate.

Does sensation, taste, sound or colour know any thing about a thought label?

No.

What is "body" actually?

A thought label for sensation, taste, sound, sight.

What is the Actual experience of "body"?

A thought, which is conceptional and false.

Is there hearing or is there just sound?

In Actual Experience there is only sound.

Is there something hearing or is there sound happening?

Nothing is hearing, there is just sound happening.

Is there an ear that "hears"? Or is there just sound?

No ear that can hear, that is only in thought. Just sound.

What is "hearing" in actual experience?

Hearing is a thought label + the actual experience of sound.

"Speaking" is the actual experience of sound + sensation + the thought label "speaking".
Is this clear?

Yes. So speaking and hearing point to the same thing in actual experience (sound), but include different thought labels. It’s all just sound + thought label. This would also apply to a car driving by; sound + thought label “car driving by”.

What is "thinking" in actual experience?

Thoughts + the thought label “thinking”. Are all thoughts in actual experience mental sound + the label of thought?

Is there a separate individual doing the thinking?

Thoughts are just happening. Even the thought “I am thinking”, is only a thought happening.

“Seeing” is the actual experience of color + the thought label “seeing”. Earlier it was written as color/image, but does “image” exist outside of thought? It seems to be only various colors.

Say "shoulder", "leg", "arms", "elbow", "nose" ..... what is the actual experience?

A thought label and the AE of color; even if that color is mental color if imagining the nose.

Always looking forward to your responses.

Thanks,
Chris

[Nina45]

Hi Chris,

These questions were very clarifying. Especially the concept of hearing vs sound. Hearing is experienced as sound and then labeled “hearing”. It was thought earlier that hearing and sound were the same since they arise together. The word sound is often used as a noun, but sound itself is only experienced.

Great! Language is a set of useful communication symbols: "leg", "dog", "food" etc. that seem to refer to something "seen"; there are also concepts like "institution", " university", "economy" that point to things that seem to exist but can't really be found; then there are things that don't exist and never existed but we like to talk about them anyway ... "unicorn", "santa", "dragon" etc. Which category does "I" belong in. What about "body"? (No right or wrong answers! The categories are only partly helpful ..... symbols don't "really" exisit at all!)

What is the Actual experience of "body"?

A thought, which is conceptional and false.

Great :). Clarity!

Is there hearing or is there just sound?

In Actual Experience there is only sound.

Great! :)

....... a car driving by; sound + thought label “car driving by”.

Exactly!

What is "thinking" in actual experience?

Thoughts + the thought label “thinking”. Are all thoughts in actual experience mental sound + the label of thought?

Good question! There is a lot of mental experience. Some of us experience more colour (images), some of us experience the "written word" rather than sound. Some of us experience the "sound" of conversational thought. Then there are mental experiences of taste, sensation and smell.
For our purposes it is useful to take "thought" as words/language (either "written" or "spoken").
This is so as not to confuse with mental "pictures", which is the actual experience of colour and other mental activity which includes the actual experience of taste, sensation and smells (dreams can be vivid examples of this mental activity).
(However, again, these categories are only partly useful ....... because indeed the "mental" sound of words is the actual experience of sound! ................ No rights and wrongs! Happy exploring!)
The important thing is that the content of thought is a "story" therefore "not real". However, the actual experience of thought, colour, smell, sound, taste and sensation is "real" (there is an actual, real experience!).
Is this clear?

Is there a separate individual doing the thinking?

Thoughts are just happening. Even the thought “I am thinking”, is only a thought happening.

Absolutely. :)

Say "shoulder", "leg", "arms", "elbow", "nose" ..... what is the actual experience?

A thought label and the AE of color; even if that color is mental color if imagining the nose.

Exactly!
Wonderful clarity!

This is an enjoyable exercise that is great for bringing greater clarity:

LOOK carefully, is breathing really happening?

Close your eyes and become ‘aware of breathing’. Ignore everything that thought says about breathing and what thought says happens when breathing seemingly occurs and just notice experience.

1) Notice the ‘nose’ and the ‘air’ that is being ‘breathed in and out’.
Does the sensation suggest in any way that there is a nose?
Does the sensation in any way suggest that breathing is happening ‘through the nose’?
Does the sensation in any way suggest that breathing is happening at all?
Does the sensation suggest in any way that there is ‘air’?

2) Now notice the rise and fall of the ‘chest’ and ‘abdomen’
Does the sensation suggest in any way that the chest and abdomen are ‘moving up and down with the breath’?
Does the sensation in any way suggest that breathing is happening at all?
Does the sensation suggest at all that there are ‘lungs that are expanding and contracting with air?
Does the sensation suggest in any way that there is ‘air’?

3) Now take notice of the sound of ‘breathing’.
Does the sound in any way suggest that ‘breathing’ is happening?
Does the sound in any way that there is ‘something/someone’ that is ‘breathing’?

4) Once again, notice the ‘nose’, ‘chest’ and ‘abdomen’
Do these images, in any way suggest that ‘breathing’ is happening?
Do these images suggest in any way that ‘movement’ is happening?

Have fun with the exercise Chris!

Very best wishes,

Nina

[C$$]

Hey Nina,

Thanks again for your responses. These questions and exercises were very helpful and removed some false assumptions held.

Which category does "I" belong in. What about "body"?
“I” belongs in “doesn’t exist and never existed”. Body refers to something “seen and felt”, but doesn’t exist as a thing, only senses + a concept in thought.

Is this clear?
Yes. All things experienced are real (thought, color, smell, taste, sound, sensation), and it’s only the content of thought which is not.

Does the sensation suggest in any way that there is a nose?
No.

Does the sensation in any way suggest that breathing is happening ‘through the nose’?
No, there is only sensation.

Does the sensation in any way suggest that breathing is happening at all?
No, sensation does not know what breathing is. It is just an indescribable sensation.

Does the sensation suggest in any way that there is ‘air’?
No, sensation cannot know ‘air’.

Does the sensation suggest in any way that the chest and abdomen are ‘moving up and down with the breath’?
No, sensation does not know movement.

Does the sensation in any way suggest that breathing is happening at all?
No, it is only a sensation.

Does the sensation suggest at all that there are ‘lungs that are expanding and contracting with air?
No, that’s only a story in thought.

Does the sensation suggest in any way that there is ‘air’?
No, air is a concept in thought.

Does the sound in any way suggest that ‘breathing’ is happening?
No, it is just sound.

Does the sound in any way that there is ‘something/someone’ that is ‘breathing’?
No, all that can be experienced is sound. Indescribable sound.

Do these images, in any way suggest that ‘breathing’ is happening?
No, images cannot know what breathing is, only thought clams to.

Do these images suggest in any way that ‘movement’ is happening?
There is the appearance of color moving, but you can’t see movement; that it is only a concept. Woah O_O

Thank you,
Chris

[Nina45]

Hi Chris,

Which category does "I" belong in. What about "body"?
“I” belongs in “doesn’t exist and never existed”. Body refers to something “seen and felt”, but doesn’t exist as a thing, only senses + a concept in thought.

Yes! "I" is definately in the same category as Santa. Body - happy to go with this! It seems to be a bit of an "institution" maybe .... seems to be there be can't be found!


Really great clarity with the non-breathing exercise Chris!

Do these images suggest in any way that ‘movement’ is happening?

There is the appearance of color moving, but you can’t see movement; that it is only a concept. Woah O_O

Fabulous looking Chris!
Rather brilliantly this brings us to LOOKing at Time. Movement is part of a belief about time ("a second ago it was here and now it his here"):

There is a general assumption that there is a linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time or an event that is moving forward on this linear time, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience that the now is moving along the line of time?

How fast the present moment is actually moving?

How long does the now last?

Where does it start and where does it end?

When does the now exactly become the 'past'?

What is the past in the actual experience?

Please look for the answers many-many times (!!!) before replying.


And here is an exercise about memory:


Almost everybody believes that a memory thought is referring to something that has happened.
That a memory thought is a different thought than a non-memory thought.

What is memory exactly? (from Actual Experience)

What is the memory ‘made of’?
WHEN does the memory appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

Then, look at a thought about the future.
What is the future thought ‘made of’?

WHEN does the future thought appear?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

Then let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future.
What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?
If there is difference, how that difference is known exactly?

Please spend lot of time (!!!!) with EACH question… Look very carefully… Look at what actually going on and not what thoughts ..... not what thoughts say .... but what actually is!

Have fun Chris!
Looking forward to the replies!

Very Best Wishes

Nina

[C$$]

Hi Nina,

I really took my time with these answers. The memory and future thoughts questions were difficult to answer.

But is there an experience that the now is moving along the line of time?

There appears to be only now. Even the concept of now is illusory since it always is, and the word implies an opposite.

How fast the present moment is actually moving?

There is no such thing as speed. It’s all just happening now.

How long does the now last?

From now to now. ;) The question assumes there is time, but there is only now. Direct perception can only happen now, and that’s all that is known. Sound can only be experienced now. Color can only be experienced now.

Where does it start and where does it end?

It has no beginning or end. Or it could be said that it starts now and ends now, since it doesn’t really exist anyways.

When does the now exactly become the 'past'?

Now can only be now. There can be thoughts of the ‘past’ in the now.

What is the past in the actual experience?

Thought, seen as mental images or mental sounds, happening now.

What is memory exactly? (from Actual Experience)

A thought, usually seen as mental images and mental sounds.

What is the memory ‘made of’?

It’s made of thought.

WHEN does the memory appear?

Now.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

In actual experience, there is no difference. Both are conceptual and illusory. It’s only a thought that thinks a memory thought was real.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

It cannot be known exactly. In actual experience, simply a thought appears.

What is the future thought ‘made of’?

Thought.

WHEN does the future thought appear?

Now.

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought?

There is no difference.

How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?

It is not known. It is only a thought.

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

Both are thought stories happening now.

Thanks so much for the committed support!

Best,
Chris

[Nina45]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for looking so carefully at time and memory. The answers seem very clear!

There appears to be only now. Even the concept of now is illusory since it always is, and the word implies an opposite.

Yes. It just "is" and everything else is the content of thought therefore "not real".

What are "now", "past" and "future" in actual experience?

What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?

In actual experience, there is no difference. Both are conceptual and illusory. It’s only a thought that thinks a memory thought was real.

It is a thought that says something is a memory.
Is it possible for a thought to think?

What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future?

Both are thought stories happening now.

Exactly!

We are fast approaching the end of this conversation Chris! There seems to be fantastic looking going on and great clarity. There are just a few more things to explore .... just to make sure things are as clear as they can be.

Firstly:

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Can anything be found that makes the hand

How is the decision made?

Secondly:

This is even a deeper investigation of the body. You might want to print the step-by-step instructions or take the laptop with you to the mirror. Please follow each step, don't leave out any. Take your time. Don't move to the next step until the previous one is clearly seen. You can also repeat the whole exercise several times... you might be surprised! 

(1) First, close the eyes and feel the sensations labelled ‘body’.

(2) Then open the eyes and look into the mirror while still pay attention to the sensations.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations and the image in the mirror?
Or just thoughts (and/or mental images) suggest that there is?

(3) While still paying attention to the sensations move one hand and observe the movement from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and image of movement in the mirror?

(4) Now do the same movement with the hand, but this time look at the hand directly, not from the mirror.
Is there any connection between the felt sensations (labelled ‘hand’) and the image ‘of movement’?
Or only thoughts suggest it?

(5) Now, pay attention only to the image in the mirror.
Does the image by itself suggest in any way that is ‘you’ or ‘your body’?
Does the image itself suggest in any way that it is a ‘body’ at all?
Or are there only colours and shapes?

(6) Where the mirror ends, some parts of the body (probably legs) cannot be seen.
Just by the image in the mirror, is there any ‘knowledge’ that there must be legs, or only thoughts and mental images suggest so?

(7) Now turn away from the mirror and look forward (don’t look directly to any body parts).
Is there a ‘body’ anywhere when all thoughts and images are ignored, or are there only sensations?

(8) Start to walk slowly.
Is there a ‘body walking’, or are there only sensations?

Is there actual experience of ‘walking’ at all?
Or just THOUGHTS ABOUT ‘walking’?
Can such a thing as ‘body’ be found OR just THOUGHTS ABOUT a ‘body’?
Can such a thing as ‘walking’ be found?

(9) Are the sensations localized in space, like ‘going through the room’; OR is there only an image that is labelled ‘room’ and appearing sensations without any location?

Take your time and look carefully. Also be aware that some ‘fear’ may arise when doing this exercise.


Have some fun and report back on how the experience was!

Very best wishes Chris!

Nina