The Gate

Hi Vince,

Quick clarification of the statement" i " wrote. "Does sensation (s) arise within the organism,( labelled as "body") or outside of the organism? Is it, (the "it" refers to sensation(s) ) a separate entity existing independently of an organism?

love,
BF

when you write.... "can be known" does this refer to..... that which can be known by direct experience?

Yes. (i had doubts about using these words when writing.)
We need a new word for experiencing <before it is altered by the arrival of thought stories>
Direct Experienceis an attempt at this.
..but this gets tricky
(more on this below..)

If so, then besides sensations, awareness of thoughts coming and going can be known.

..gets tricky when we talk about directly experiencing the arrival of a thought, but without being influenced by what the thought is about.
i story that (difficulty with words again) mindthoughtintuition is a sense. That is it is capable of generating a sensation when stimulated.
..and stimulated it is. By anything and everything. Even itself.
Emotions are the sensation(al) results of this sense being stimulated.

Are any sensations separate from the "organism"?

Sensations are experiencing.
The 'organism' is a concept. Ergo, the question is unanswerable.

"Does sensation (s) arise within the organism,( labelled as "body") or outside of the organism?

A current science story is that when a sense organ is stimulated, then messages head for the brain, where they are interpreted, according to experiential conditions. The brain will then organize what is felt and where it is felt, to (presumably) evoke appropriate responses.
It's a good story, but from the perspective of the organism, it is concept.
From an experiential perspective, is it possible to 'know' where a sensation comes from, or how it happens ?

A sense of "oneness".

How is this experienced ?

love

vince

Good afternoon, Vince,

Do agree the science story is a good story, and from the perspective of the organism, it would fall under the category of "concept". You wrote..... " From an experiential perspective, is it possible to know where a sensation comes from, or how it happens?"

Do you mean, where does sensation originate? Its origination is unknown . Just another aspect of the organism as a whole. Part of the complete package deal.

"How it happens?"
Unknown, for sure, but from direct experience sensation can be experienced by coming in direct contact with something such as rain, fire, wind gusts, etc. anything in which physical sensations can arise. Besides, physical sensations, emotional sensations can be experienced via contact with mental (mind) things, thoughts, memories.
My thoughts are sensation is what is experienced when coming in contact with something physical or mental. There are causes which cause sensation (s).

How is a sense of "Oneness" experienced?

When writing the word, "oneness" , what i wish to state is the unity of the organism. Not a religious concept, or idea of being, "one with the universe." The organism is aware that it functions as a unified organism, despite bits, parts, processes, all these things are connected to the whole organism. For blood to be pumped throughout the organism, an organ labelled, "heart" must be within.
By looking outside of the organism, i do not see anything which is separate, that functions independently from it.

All and all i would sum things up as..... life is processes that has causes and conditions which keeps it flowing, or if you prefer the word,..... happening.

love,
BF

Good morning BF. Unless there is anything else that you wish to explore, would you run through the following questions, as a summary.
Oh, and friend me on Facebook, so that you can be invited to some groups (of other awakened bodies) (https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert)
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) "Describe your experience of the illusion of separate self, how it arises/disappears. Is that process always the same, or does it vary, and if so, how?"

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?


love

vince

[quote="vinceschubert"]Good morning BF. Unless there is anything else that you wish to explore, would you run through the following questions, as a summary.
Oh, and friend me on Facebook, so that you can be invited to some groups (of other awakened bodies) (https://www.facebook.com/vince.schubert)

Good morning, Vince, will answer the following questions as a summary.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is no separate entity known as a " self", an "I" or a "me" to be found anywhere in any shape or form and there never was, although at one time the illusion of a separate self seemed very real.

2) "Describe your experience of the illusion of separate self, how it arises/disappears. Is that process always the same, or does it vary, and if so, how?"

It felt like an actual entity called " self" was within the physical body and that the body was the outer casing in which the "self", the "me" lived inside of. The organism called body was one thing and the "self" was something separate. How the illusion all started began with early childhood conditioning, the seeds for this illusion became planted and flourished by those who also experienced the illusion of a separate self. How the illusion dissolved was by inquiring, looking, seeing clearly what is. Letting go of the story lines and beliefs of being this or that. Did my own inquiring of "the self" , the whole "who am I" routine, Neti, neti, not this, not that.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Freedom! Wonderful! It's like laying down a burden that once was carried for years! The difference is that now skeptical doubt is gone.

4) What was the last bit which caused you to look?
What caused me to look was the need to know whether or not there actually is a "self". Needed to find out and experience the real truth. Had been seeking answers to what is real and what is an illusion for years.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Control events in life, no. There is a few things which can be chosen in life such as marrying or remaining single. Deciding upon a career, what job field to enter. What the outcome of the choices made will be later on is unknown, as all things are transient, subject to change, and have causes and conditions as factors. So, actually, no one is making anything happen, although the illusion is that we control events, make things happen. At best, what could be said is we set the stage for causes and conditions to play out.

From my experience, the choice to marry was made. Did not know what the outcome of this choice would be. Could not stop or control the event of death of the spouse. It was sudden, it happened.
It clearly demonstrated the impermanent nature of all things.

6) Anything to add?
Nothing more to add. Thank you, kindly, for taking the time to guide! It is appreciated, sincerely.

love
BF

Good evening BF.
Another guide asks;

the choice to marry was made.

Did you in fact decide to marry your wife, or was it rather many events leading to the marriage?

What is your Facebook name (did you send a friend request ?)

Would you be interested in guiding some of the constant stream of seekers. Pay it forward, so to speak ?

love

vince

Good evening BF.
Another guide asks;

the choice to marry was made.

Did you in fact decide to marry your wife, or was it rather many events leading to the marriage?

Good afternoon, Vince,
Many events led to the decision to marry a long time friend who shared in these events. First, was the sudden, passing of mother, on the holiday, called, Thanksgiving Day in 1999. Both of us had been to dinner that afternoon with her. Three years later, father could no longer live at home due to severe dementia, he had to be placed in a facility specializing in Alzheimer's and Dementia. It was stated Alzheimer's was the name for a type of dementia and there was no cure. The medications used could only slow down the progression of the disease and the efficacy of such medications depended upon how advanced the dementia was. He was in the middle advanced stages of the disease. Father lived 3 years and passed away in the facility.

No, not "wife" "my" gender is female, my long time friend, was male, thus making the spouse the term, "husband."
The desire for companionship was definitely there and since both of us had shared so much over the years the decision to marry followed. So, yes, events helped shape this.

What is your Facebook name (did you send a friend request ?)

Do not have a Facebook account, so no Facebook name exits.

Would you be interested in guiding some of the constant stream of seekers. Pay it forward, so to speak ?

Undecided at present.

love
BF

Good morning BF,

Do not have a Facebook account, so no Facebook name exits.

Oh, The next 'step' usually happens on FB.
There are several 'groups' for those newly through the 'gate' and some for those through longer. (different interests) and some for guides and potential guides. It is a community of 'like minded'.
It would be good if you considered opening a FB account (it can be anonymous) so that we can have continued communication and you can contribute to the continued 'evolution' of us all.

Would you be interested in guiding some of the constant stream of seekers. Pay it forward, so to speak ?
Undecided at present.

Absolutely no pressure for this.

love

vince

Good Evening, Vince,

Have opened a FB account and have sent a friend request. It has been sent with the name, nancyswanson. Thank you, for inviting me to join this like-minded community.

love,
BF