Letting go

[Rishi]

Greetings Bananafish !

Reporting after my morning enquiry session. I will try to stick to actual reporting to the best of my ability. Some unconscious wired inferences may pop up here and there - please continue to keep me focussed :)

Does awareness see?

Can awareness "do" anything other than just being aware - in other
words, just being there ... "aware-ing" so to say?

Can will, subjectivity, or intention attributed
to awareness?

Awareness is just aware. And it is not the background - it is the foreground . i see that. It was always this - very obvious.

It is aware of seeing, hearing, smelling, sensations.

Awareness is aware of the intention and will. It is distinct from intention and will.

When you say "state," what is it that is in that state?

By State, I am referring to a 'quality' that awareness is aware with. For example with an expansive quality when there are no thoughts. This is observed in contrast to awareness when there are thoughts. the later feels different and limited.

Literally LOOK at that "something," or "background" you've been referring to.
Are they just words, ideas, assumptions or not? If they aren't, tell me
where, when, and in what kind of form they can exist.

It is not the background. It is the foreground. It is aware of everything. I can 'see' it now :)

It also sleeps sometimes :) I say sleep just an analogy - and point out the fact this awareness does not have the same expansive quality always. In my enquiry, the clearest observations were when there were no thoughts. I have not got very accurate observations about this awareness in the midst of thoughts. I have only observed accurately getting in or getting out of thoughts.

Again, can awareness bring anything?

Awareness is aware. Does not bring - just watches.

Why isn't it enough to know that there is a gap?

It can be. I don't know. I was referring to the act of awareness 'waking up' to the expansive quality of the gap. That is all I can see.

Are awareness and hearing, smelling, healing different?

Awareness is more than hearing, smelling or seeing - individually or combined. So they are different.



With Regards,
Rishi

[Bananafish]

Dear Rishi,

Some unconscious wired inferences may pop up here and there - please continue to keep me focussed :)

Sure! That's my role here and I would love to do that ... :)

Awareness is just aware. And it is not the background - it is the foreground . i see that. It was always this - very obvious.

Can you elaborate? What makes a difference between "background" and "foreground?"

It is aware of seeing, hearing, smelling, sensations.

Awareness is aware of the intention and will. It is distinct from intention and will.

When you say "awareness is aware," are "being aware" and "awareness"
different? Is there a subject "awareness" and the verb "be aware?" Or are they one?

Please further observe what you call "awareness."

It is not the background. It is the foreground. It is aware of everything. I can 'see' it now :)

Are awareness and "everything" separate?
Is awareness separate from the world? Can one exist without the other?

If it is observed so, please describe how separate they are.

It also sleeps sometimes :) I say sleep just an analogy - and point out the fact this awareness does not have the same expansive quality always. In my enquiry, the clearest observations were when there were no thoughts. I have not got very accurate observations about this awareness in the midst of thoughts. I have only observed accurately getting in or getting out of thoughts.

Right. Then, what is it that observes "awareness?"
Do "you" observe awareness, or observation happens by itself?
Who, or what is the observer?

Awareness is aware. Does not bring - just watches.

Are "awareness" and "watching" different?

It can be. I don't know. I was referring to the act of awareness 'waking up' to the expansive quality of the gap. That is all I can see.

When you say "awareness is ~ing," please substitute the term "awareness" with the word "life", "world", or
"reality". Does it make a difference, or do you feel that the labels for that "something" you're referring to
can be replaced to either of the three I named above?

Awareness is more than hearing, smelling or seeing - individually or combined. So they are different.

Please describe how this is observed.


Best regards,

Bananafish

[Rishi]

Greetings Bananafish !

Here are today's observations:

Can you elaborate? What makes a difference between "background" and "foreground?"

The background or foreground are just labels that my thoughts are putting on the awareness. I can see that now :)
As soon as I try to analyze the awareness or presence . I feel a pull. Discomfort and i am out of it.

The presence cannot be analyzed. It is there. The wind blows and a squirrel runs up a tree. Smile on my face. Tears in eyes. Everything is. No labels. Is.

I guess that answers all other questions :)

When you say "awareness is aware," are "being aware" and "awareness"
different? Is there a subject "awareness" and the verb "be aware?" Or are they one?

Please further observe what you call "awareness."

Awareness is.

Are awareness and "everything" separate?
Is awareness separate from the world? Can one exist without the other?

If it is observed so, please describe how separate they are.

They are not separate when I am fully present. No thoughts. Just is.

Right. Then, what is it that observes "awareness?"
Do "you" observe awareness, or observation happens by itself?
Who, or what is the observer?

It is a thought that analyzes awareness ->movement-> energy->discomfort-> contracted awareness

Could not 'observe' awareness.

Are "awareness" and "watching" different?

There are same - Awareness has a watching quality to be exact. By watching I don't just mean seeing - but watching through all sense perceptions. Also abstract perceptions, energy flow, love joy ecstasy.

When you say "awareness is ~ing," please substitute the term "awareness" with the word "life", "world", or
"reality". Does it make a difference, or do you feel that the labels for that "something" you're referring to
can be replaced to either of the three I named above?

It will be the same.

Awareness is more than hearing, smelling or seeing - individually or combined. So they are different.

Please describe how this is observed.

Cannot put labels. Any labels alters the experience of awareness.

The presence cannot be analyzed. It is there !

Best regards,
Rishi

[Bananafish]

Hi Rishi!

The background or foreground are just labels that my thoughts are putting on the awareness. I can see that now :)
As soon as I try to analyze the awareness or presence . I feel a pull. Discomfort and i am out of it.

The presence cannot be analyzed. It is there. The wind blows and a squirrel runs up a tree. Smile on my face. Tears in eyes. Everything is. No labels. Is.

I guess that answers all other questions :)

Yes! A big smile on my face! :)

One thing here … Do thoughts put labels, or are thoughts labels themselves?
Does any thought “put” labels, or are labels just put, without anyone to put it?

Sit quietly with your back straight, and LOOK at thoughts.

Awareness is.

What if you took the label “awareness” away from that which you’ve been referring to?
How would you describe it?

They are not separate when I am fully present. No thoughts. Just is.

Is the “I” present? Feel that “presence” and tell me if “you” are present.
If so, where exactly does that “you” exist as a separate entity?

It is a thought that analyzes awareness ->movement-> energy->discomfort-> contracted awareness

Could not 'observe' awareness.

Can a thought analyze anything?
If so, which thought has the capacity to analyze?

LOOK!

There are same - Awareness has a watching quality to be exact. By watching I don't just mean seeing - but watching through all sense perceptions. Also abstract perceptions, energy flow, love joy ecstasy.

Ok, so that’s more like feeling or sensing … any separate sensor out there?

It will be the same.

Did you notice that they all are, including “awareness,” just labels?

Again, how would you describe that which you’ve been talking about without
the label “awareness?”

Cannot put labels. Any labels alters the experience of awareness.

What does it alter, and how does it alter?
Do labels themselves have the capacity to alter IT (reality, world, or Life) as it is?

The presence cannot be analyzed. It is there !

Just being … isn’t it beautiful?

[Rishi]

Hi Bananafish !

I am back after a few days - used the site's downtime for some useful looking :)

One thing here … Do thoughts put labels, or are thoughts labels themselves?
Does any thought “put” labels, or are labels just put, without anyone to put it?

Sit quietly with your back straight, and LOOK at thoughts.

Eyes Closed. Presence. Deep energy. Swaying motion inside - vibration.
Flash of an image. Another image. Feeling. Awareness of the witness. All are faint thoughts. All are labels. Energy is still there - gets fainter. Intention to record all this for reporting - another thought. Witness thought becomes well defined.

Something 'wakes up' within a fully formed 'thought story' where I was brewing Darjeeling tea in the kitchen.
I start again. Relax. Eyes Closed. Presence. Deep energy. Swaying motion inside - vibration.

So to answer your question. Initial thoughts are labels and the labels are just put. They appear randomly. Then an observer though appears to observer the random thought. Then the observer 'guides' these labels and spins a story. The story does not look like a label.

What does it alter, and how does it alter?
Do labels themselves have the capacity to alter IT (reality, world, or Life) as it is?

I know that labels should not have the capacity to alter IT. But my experience is not that.

Random images appear within the state of presence.With these images appear the watcher of these images. Some of these Images by some mechanism which I cannot clearly see - lures the watcher to create a story. Attention is now strongly from the point of watcher. Presence is faint. The watcher can smell Darjeeling Tea. The watcher is brewing Darjeeling Tea in the kitchen in a thought.

Then presence wakes up. The whole cycle repeats.

Did you notice that they all are, including “awareness,” just labels?

Yes. The start of a thought is a label. The thought 'dream track' is a fully formed narrative. That is not a label.

Again, how would you describe that which you’ve been talking about without
the label “awareness?”

Presence.

The presence cannot be analyzed. It is there !

Just being … isn’t it beautiful?

[/quote]

It is indeed !! Thank You !

[Bananafish]

Dear Rishi,

So to answer your question. Initial thoughts are labels and the labels are just put. They appear randomly. Then an observer though appears to observer the random thought. Then the observer 'guides' these labels and spins a story. The story does not look like a label.

Maybe there are some typos here?
Do you mean, ‘Then an observer thought appears to observe the random thought.”?


Then …

What or who observes?

Can you point at the “observer”
right at the moment it is “observing” or “guiding?”


What is this “story?”
Can you LOOK at it further?

Random images appear within the state of presence.With these images appear the watcher of these images. Some of these Images by some mechanism which I cannot clearly see - lures the watcher to create a story. Attention is now strongly from the point of watcher. Presence is faint. The watcher can smell Darjeeling Tea. The watcher is brewing Darjeeling Tea in the kitchen in a thought.

Then presence wakes up. The whole cycle repeats.

Please point at the “watcher.”
Where did you point at?


Is “presence” there, just being, with all the movement and changes,
or does it ‘do’ anything other than just being?

Isn’t appearing clear or unclear a part of the whole movement of life, presence,
Tao, whatever the name is?

Yes. The start of a thought is a label. The thought 'dream track' is a fully formed narrative. That is not a label.

This part wasn’t very clear. Can you elaborate?

Presence.

Is presence separate from everything that is present, here and now?


Peace,

Bananafish

[Rishi]

Dear Bananafish,

Maybe there are some typos here?
Do you mean, ‘Then an observer thought appears to observe the random thought.”?

Yes - sorry about that. You got it correct :)

Then …

What or who observes?

Can you point at the “observer”
right at the moment it is “observing” or “guiding?”

Here is what I see. The starting point is presence. There are two type of thoughts that flash randomly. One is a low impact thought which is a faint image or picture or snapshot. This is sparingly related to my current experience - and most of the time random. These images have a weak 'observer' - sometimes it is almost as if I see a 'pre-image'. The presence is mostly undisturbed.

There there is a bit more powerful thought. It comes with a label - which involves some judgement. This thought makes the observer strong. I cannot see the exact mechanism, but I feel that that the judgement is causing an illusion of observer.

What is this “story?”
Can you LOOK at it further?

The story is triggered by like/dislike judgement 'tag' that accompanies a image (picture). I subtle 'like' tag with image of tea triggers a thought of me making the tea in the kitchen.

Please point at the “watcher.”
Where did you point at?

The watcher is an illusion. The like/dislike tag of the thought created this illusion. I can see this now :)

Is “presence” there, just being, with all the movement and changes,
or does it ‘do’ anything other than just being?

Yes. It is just there. Does nothing. And everything :)

Isn’t appearing clear or unclear a part of the whole movement of life, presence,
Tao, whatever the name is?

That is a revelation. The cycles of clear and unclear is the movement of life. As long as the thought triggers/labels exist this cycle will exist.

Yes. The start of a thought is a label. The thought 'dream track' is a fully formed narrative. That is not a label.

This part wasn’t very clear. Can you elaborate?

I meant to say that the type of thoughts which have a like/dislike label - creates a narrative which is more complex than just a picture (which was more like a label).

Is presence separate from everything that is present, here and now?

It is not :)

With Regards,
Rishi

[Bananafish]

Greetings, Rishi. :)

Here is what I see. The starting point is presence. There are two type of thoughts that flash randomly. One is a low impact thought which is a faint image or picture or snapshot. This is sparingly related to my current experience - and most of the time random. These images have a weak 'observer' - sometimes it is almost as if I see a 'pre-image'. The presence is mostly undisturbed.

There there is a bit more powerful thought. It comes with a label - which involves some judgement. This thought makes the observer strong. I cannot see the exact mechanism, but I feel that that the judgement is causing an illusion of observer.

Great! Now you know that the observer is an illusion,
and you saw that it is caused by “judgement.”

LOOK.

Who and where is the judge? Actually LOOK.


Is there judgement without the judge?

The story is triggered by like/dislike judgement 'tag' that accompanies a image (picture). I subtle 'like' tag with image of tea triggers a thought of me making the tea in the kitchen.

Nice observation …
The judgement is like a “tag” put to an image … isn’t this tag (I like / I don’t like) just a thought?


Isn’t the “image” just a mental picture?

Is mental picture real or illusory? Observe it in details, feel its texture (if any),
see it, hear it, touch it (if that’s possible), smell it, and tell me if it feels real or illusory.

The watcher is an illusion. The like/dislike tag of the thought created this illusion. I can see this now :)

Great LOOKing, Rishi!

Yes. It is just there. Does nothing. And everything :)

:)

That is a revelation. The cycles of clear and unclear is the movement of life. As long as the thought triggers/labels exist this cycle will exist.

If you don’t name IT, it’s just something happening. That’s IT.

I meant to say that the type of thoughts which have a like/dislike label - creates a narrative which is more complex than just a picture (which was more like a label).

Can you look at it in a simple way?

What is this “narrative?”
Isn’t it thoughts tagged with images? (tell me if it’s not)


Best Regards,

Bananafish

[Rishi]

Greetings Bananafish !

I have a general question regarding the forum postings. For some reason I am no longer receiving the e-mail alerts anymore. Is there a way to set it back ?

So I see this now :) .. Thanks for guiding me in this enquiry !

The cycles of clear and unclear is the movement of life. As long as the thought triggers/labels exist this cycle will exist.

And as you said :

If you don’t name IT, it’s just something happening. That’s IT.

Indeed !! The cycles of clear and unclear is the movement.

Can you look at it in a simple way?
What is this “narrative?”
Isn’t it thoughts tagged with images? (tell me if it’s not)

This was another revelation. Indeed ALL thoughts are just images with tags.Tags of judgements and choices.

The narrative is also a sequence of images. So my thoughts do not happen in 3 D Video as I had assumed they did all my life. So different and limited are they from what is. Thanks !

So all this makes sense now. experiential sense.

Choiceness awareness. No observer. What really is.
Choices. Observer. What I see.
And a movement between these two.

An inferred realization is that the choice labels are due to conditioning. Because they just 'Pop up'. And a lot of these are based on my past experiences and habits. I did a bit more watching on the labels and narrative. Labels are mainly like and dislike. Also there are two key types of narratives (sequence of images) - Fear and Greed narratives. These narratives are woven around some contextual action settings (like my making tea in kitchen).

Best Regards,
Bananafish

[Rishi]

Best Regards,
Rishi :)

[Bananafish]

Hi Rishi!

I have a general question regarding the forum postings. For some reason I am no longer receiving the e-mail alerts anymore. Is there a way to set it back ?

You mean the notification you receive when I post something on this thread?

Is the page subscribed? Please try subscribing it again, and if there's still
a problem, let me know.

So I see this now :) .. Thanks for guiding me in this enquiry !

My pleasure, Rishi. :)

The cycles of clear and unclear is the movement of life. As long as the thought triggers/labels exist this cycle will exist.

Right. That's reality, isn't it?
Thoughts will continue to appear, and is that a problem?

If that remains a problem, LOOK; to whom is it a problem?

Indeed !! The cycles of clear and unclear is the movement.

Yes! :)

This was another revelation. Indeed ALL thoughts are just images with tags.Tags of judgements and choices.

The narrative is also a sequence of images. So my thoughts do not happen in 3 D Video as I had assumed they did all my life. So different and limited are they from what is. Thanks !

Great!

One thing here ...

ALL thoughts are just images with tags.

Aren't the tags themselves the thoughts?

Please LOOK further on how thoughts stick to everything
as labels, putting names on the seemingly divided "objects."

So all this makes sense now. experiential sense.

Choiceness awareness. No observer. What really is.
Choices. Observer. What I see.
And a movement between these two.

What is the "I" in the phrase "What I see"?

An inferred realization is that the choice labels are due to conditioning. Because they just 'Pop up'. And a lot of these are based on my past experiences and habits. I did a bit more watching on the labels and narrative. Labels are mainly like and dislike. Also there are two key types of narratives (sequence of images) - Fear and Greed narratives. These narratives are woven around some contextual action settings (like my making tea in kitchen).

When you say "my past experiences" ...

1. Where, and in what kind of form does the "I" that experiences exist?

2. What is "past?" Is it a concept, image, thought, or neither of them?

Visualize a scene from the past, and try to grasp it (literally!).

Where did you reach out to grasp? Could you grasp it?

Was there an "I" in that scene?

[Bananafish]

Dear Rishi,

I will be on a business trip to Canada, and
might not have enough time to fully respond to your next
post.


If that happens, please keep LOOKing,
and please post the discovery (if any) even
while I don't post.


Peace,

Bananafish

[Rishi]

Dear Bananafish,

Have a safe trip ! We will actually be on closer timezones during your trip (I am based in the East Coast) :)

Yes I will keep Looking and reporting.

Regards,
Rishi

[Bananafish]

Hi Rishi!

Found a bit of spare time to post.
Any new report? How are you doing?


Warm regards,

Bananafish

[Rishi]

Hi Bananafish !

Found a bit of spare time to post.
Any new report? How are you doing?

Have been busy with some festivities. The colorful Holi festival that heralds the advent of spring :)
Continuing from our last conversation, you had asked:

When you say "my past experiences" ...
1. Where, and in what kind of form does the "I" that experiences exist?
2. What is "past?" Is it a concept, image, thought, or neither of them?

Visualize a scene from the past, and try to grasp it (literally!).
Where did you reach out to grasp? Could you grasp it?
Was there an "I" in that scene?

I can clearly see the 'low resolution' images from the past. An incident from the past is a package of low resolution images plus a thought of feeling (pleasant / unpleasant) and a sound track. The pleasant/unpleasant feeling anchors the illusion of 'observer'. With the judgement (pleasant / unpleasant) comes the judge - it is a package:)

I also want to share another experience that I had once. This is significant from the context of 'past'. It is experiential and was as real as me typing this note.

I had an experience a few years ago where my whole life seemed to be in one moment. As if time had collapsed. These were joyous moments - real instances from my life. Vivid, sunny happy. All these moments were happening in parallel. That glimpse had left me with a smile that stuck on my face for several days :)

With Regards,
Rishi