First Step Taken, _check_, Need guide on where to take the s

[Canfora]

Looking forward to your reply!

[shibumi-mind]

Update: Still Looking.

[Canfora]

Why is looking taking so long?
If I ask you if there are socks in your feet, you will look and answer yes or no.
If there is an entity inside the body, shouldn't you see it right away? Why is more time needed to check if there is a you in the body or not?

[shibumi-mind]

Every time I look I find that the concept of me dissolves under inspection. So yes I know there is no self in there.

Throughout the day, however, how can I tell that the self is not there? I still feel as if I am driving a body. That "I" am there.

What level of understanding is required to "REALLY" know that there is no self?

It is difficult to do this as the self is such a fuzzy (illusion). I just don't know what to say.

[shibumi-mind]

Sandra,

By the way, Thank You. I appreciate your patience in this. As I read this thread I'm starting to seem like a pendulum.

a) there is no self entity.
b) I don't seem to believe myself, I guess.
c) the rainbows, mirages, and sock examples are good, except you rely on multiple senses to see and verify if it is what it is. In the mind. At least mine. I find it difficult to do so.


Thank You Again.

[Canfora]

Hi Rick!

Just keep looking. This will click when it clicks. Don't worry with getting results.

What I hear you say is that when you look you can't find evidences of the existance of an I but it is possible that there is one operating when you're busy with living. Is this what's going on? All kind of experiences are being lived. Some may cause the impression that there is an I present, doing stuff, talking with people, feeling sensations and sometimes strong emotions. Are you expecting that the impression of being you will disappear?

You have looked for this self "inside" and didn't find an entity inside the body or that is the body, yes?

So we are looking for a self "outside"? What do you think this self may be?

b) I don't seem to believe myself, I guess.

What does this mean? That sometimes the thoughts about the existance of a self are believed and sometime the thoughts about the non existance of a self are believed?

What is believing these thoughts?

Is thinking more reliable than this here/now watheverthisis experience?

Hug

[shibumi-mind]

>>You have looked for this self "inside" and didn't find an entity inside the body or that is the body, yes?
correct

>>So we are looking for a self "outside"? What do you think this self may be?

Not looking. It just appears...I think.

>>shibumi-mind wrote:
>> b) I don't seem to believe myself, I guess.
>>What does this mean? That sometimes the thoughts about the existence of a self are believed and sometime the thoughts about the non existence of a self are believed?

I guess there is no belief yet? I am a skeptical person at heart.

>>what is believing these thoughts?
good question.

>>Is thinking more reliable than this here/now whateverever this is experience?
Not sure what this means.

It seems the following is happening (maybe not the best example). I tell my mind there are unicorns. But I can't see, smell, hear, touch or taste one. :p When I looked in my mind I pictured a unicorn (concept of self). I can't really convince myself when not focusing that unicorns exist. Does this make sense.

As best as I can summarize:

I have not found a concrete example of self while inspecting. Yet during course of day, Nothing has changed. I still can be present when I become aware during day. But what happens during the rest of the day? Is it possible that I have opened the gate and am looking for something (self) that is not there? I just can't describe/internalize that understanding of there not being a (self)?

[Canfora]

Hi again,

I guess there is no belief yet? I am a skeptical person at heart.

This is not about believing, it's about looking and seeing experience as it is.
Would you say Santa Claus is a person?
What makes you say Rick is a person?

I still can be present when I become aware during day. But what happens during the rest of the day?

Well, the idea isn't to achieve a special state of presence or to always be present, so don't worry with staying present. You have already notice that presence isn't something you can control anyway.

Is it possible that I have opened the gate and am looking for something (self) that is not there? I just can't describe/internalize that understanding of there not being a (self)?

There is no need to rush and you're doing fine! Don't worry with the gate - look for the self that is questioning if the gate was crossed. Can you find this self?

[shibumi-mind]

Hello Sandra,

Just checking in to keep you up to date. I am still asking those fine questions you posed.
>>"Would you say Santa Claus is a person?"
Santa Claus is a myth, an fun illusion placed on children. Once understood the illusion vanished. Poof
>>"What makes you say Rick is a person?"
When I look closely, there is no Rick. When I stop looking, he is there. He has made both good and bad impacts on people and things. There are things in existence because of his actions. There are also things that have disappeared because of his actions. This is a pragmatic look at things, but what else is there?

I truly do understand what you are pointing at, and what I believe we are looking for. The end of identifying an "I"
The only problem at the moment is that my brain is in the way. ;) Something is hindering this next step. Until then I will continue to be present and ask myself if there is a "Rick person"

Thank You,

Rick

[Canfora]

Rick, if you want to be guided, why aren't you posting frequently?

[shibumi-mind]

Because I do not have new information to share. I am working on the latest information you suggested. I can be more active though. Did not mean anything by it.

[Canfora]

Is there a reason why you believe new information is needed?
Don't you trust this information that your experience is giving you now?

Post once a day if you can. I'll try to do the same.

[shibumi-mind]

Sounds like a plan.

[shibumi-mind]

>>"Would you say Santa Claus is a person?"
Santa Claus is a myth, an fun illusion placed on children. Once understood the illusion vanished.
>>"What makes you say Rick is a person?"
When I look closely, there is no Rick. When I stop looking, he is there. This multi decade view needs a different angle of attack. I saw a program called Brain Games which deals with illusions. I only saw one program but it illustrates perfectly what we are working on here. The mind thinks there is an entity controlling the body, and many times a day now, I snap out of this illusion. Aware, and present, as if I have awaken from a dream. But to be perfectly honest. I have not internalized this concept. So I must keep looking. Perhaps the analogy you presented about Santa Claus, or Rainbows will ring the truth. Or dwelling on the gullibility of the mind to see things that are not there



Even though there is no triangle in this picture, our brain says there is one until you inspect it closely.

I'm in the same situation with "I" , only the experience has set in for more than four decades.

Thank You for you patience,

Rick

[Canfora]

Hi Rick!

This is something I don't understand:

When I stop looking, he is there.

What do you mean with he is there?

You know when something is being experienced, yes?
So you can say that *something* is there.
You look at it - is there.
How can a self be there when you stop looking?
What is this self? How do you know it is there? How do you know it is there when you stop looking?

We can assume things that we have experienced are there when we aren't looking (I believe my bed is in my room, for example) but that's because we have experienced those things before. Are you saying that you can't find a self right now but you know it is there - like a bed in a room? That you can't experience a self right now but it is there somewhere, because it was experienced before?

Don't you think that's strange? How can a self exist if it can't be experienced here and now? Are you expecting a self to pop up from the past or to find a self in the future? Do you think it is possible to experience a experience outside this one, this experience that is happening now - a past or future experience?

This multi decade view needs a different angle of attack.

Are you trying to stop the illusion? How would you know that you have reached what you think you're looking for? Would self referential thoughts stop? You would stop acting and thinking like you usually do? Would you stop worrying, or suffering, or feeling anxiety, or drop your habits? What are you expecting to happen?

Hug!