Looking for the key to my cage

[Sleepwalker]

Please go back to my posts of 1/22 at 1:18 PM , 1:27 PM and 1:38 PM and respond to the questions. Thanks!

[Sleepwalker]

Charlie, Please go back to my posts on 1/22 at 1:18PM, 1:27 PM and 1:38 PM and answer the questions.Thank you.

[CharliePurchase]

Sorry Michael, for some reason I didn't see your replies! I will reply now

[CharliePurchase]

[quote="Sleepwalker"][quote]

Can you please focus on something and describe in detail the process by which YOU focus.

Ok, so if i focus on one of my dogs the focus just goes there of its own accord. My eyes look and my brain thinks about the thing i'm looking at, its automatic

[quote]Without going into thought what is your direct experience of heart? When it races is there any"thing" experienced beyond a sensation. Look carefully. With eyes closed describe in DE what’s there. Can you pinpoint its exact location?[quote]

No, the heart beats by itself. I don't have any control over it beating or how fast it beats (or i would make it beat slower) The feeling of the heart beating is just a feeling, obviously the heart exists or i would be dead but i don't control the heart or the feelings it creates in my chest. I know its in my chest because thats where the sensation arises from

The more I think about it the more i realise i am just a product of 32 years of listening to other people opinions and having labels stuck all over me, it gets to the point where you are drowning in other peoples opinions and labels. No wonder i feel so anxious and 'heavy'

[CharliePurchase]

Oops, i have Unlearnt the quote function haha

[Sleepwalker]

No worries about missing the posts, It happens.

Ok, so if i focus on one of my dogs the focus just goes there of its own accord. My eyes look and my brain thinks about the thing i'm looking at, its automatic

Good Looking!! I think you see clearly but just to expand a bit. Let's bore down a little. OK? Let's take a sound that appears or occurs perhaps the sound of your dog coughing,immediately or shortly after a thought appears what was that? Is the dog choking? Has he/she vomited on the floor, I better get up and check. In the above scenario what process did, the you you take yourself to be, go through to hear and then think? Might it be more true to say simply there was sound? Does anything have to happen by anyone for sound to be heard? Please keep this inquiry to DE, no science or anatomy theory(thought). If I beat a bass drum in the same room as you do you need to do anything to hear it. If not why do we say WE hear. There is only the heard.Without what is heard where would hearing be? The point is that it is automatic , no doer.The point is eyes aren't looking they see ears aren't hearing, they hear, the brain is not thinking, thoughts appear. Let's leave it there for now.

No, the heart beats by itself. I don't have any control over it beating or how fast it beats (or i would make it beat slower) The feeling of the heart beating is just a feeling, obviously the heart exists or i would be dead but i don't control the heart or the feelings it creates in my chest. I know its in my chest because thats where the sensation arises from

I don't have any control over it beating or how fast it beats (or i would make it beat slower)

Do you control the body in any way?If the we that we take ourselves to be had to be responsible for the millions of cellular , muscular , tissue , skeletal actions and interactions how far would we get.HAHAHA! With that said would YOU really want to interfere with something that works so remarkably well without your assistance? Now's a good time to look at control.Stand or sit with arms down and agree to raise you one of your arms up sometime in the next 2 minutes. Then closely observe what happens and describe.

The more I think about it the more i realise i am just a product of 32 years of listening to other people opinions and having labels stuck all over me, it gets to the point where you are drowning in other peoples opinions and labels. No wonder i feel so anxious and 'heavy'

Charlie,That is a Huge realization in and of itself! Now go a little further and look for the the who that had all the labels stuck all over it. What did or does that consist of? And by extension the other people.I'm not trying to downplay the experience because anxiety has been experienced here as well.But again take anxiety apart and tell me beyond a physical sensation and appearing thoughts of aversion what is there? Sit with eyes closed and after you've settled a bit tell me in DE if you can say with certainty how tall the body is,can you accurately distinguish it's boundaries, can you know it's weight?

[Sleepwalker]

Hello Charlie, Just checking in with you to make sure you're OK. Michael

[CharliePurchase]

Good Looking!! I think you see clearly but just to expand a bit. Let's bore down a little. OK? Let's take a sound that appears or occurs perhaps the sound of your dog coughing,immediately or shortly after a thought appears what was that? Is the dog choking? Has he/she vomited on the floor, I better get up and check. In the above scenario what process did, the you you take yourself to be, go through to hear and then think? Might it be more true to say simply there was sound? Does anything have to happen by anyone for sound to be heard? Please keep this inquiry to DE, no science or anatomy theory(thought). If I beat a bass drum in the same room as you do you need to do anything to hear it. If not why do we say WE hear. There is only the heard.Without what is heard where would hearing be? The point is that it is automatic , no doer.The point is eyes aren't looking they see ears aren't hearing, they hear, the brain is not thinking, thoughts appear. Let's leave it there for now.

Hi Michael, I am feeling better now so I will get back to the questions.

If for example the dog makes a sound, I don't do anything. The noise is just heard and then there is a reaction. As in getting up and checking or looking to see what the sound was. I don't go through a process intentionally to 'hear' or for sounds to be made and heard. And don't worry science isn't my strong suit

Actually I just heard the cat crying at the door and automatically got up to let it in, the sound was there and automatically I got up to open the door when the sound was heard.

No if you were banging a drum in the same room as me i wouldn't need to go through a process to hear it, the noise would just be there in the room and would be heard by me without any choice

Without 'what is heard' hearing would still occur without any choice by the person who is hearing

[CharliePurchase]

Do you control the body in any way?If the we that we take ourselves to be had to be responsible for the millions of cellular , muscular , tissue , skeletal actions and interactions how far would we get.HAHAHA! With that said would YOU really want to interfere with something that works so remarkably well without your assistance? Now's a good time to look at control.Stand or sit with arms down and agree to raise you one of your arms up sometime in the next 2 minutes. Then closely observe what happens and describe.

No I don't think I control the body in anyway, if I could control it I would slow my heartbeat down (its always been very fast). I don't think I would get very far dealing with all those elements and processes as I don't even understand a fraction of what processes are constantly occurring as I sit here typing!

So i sat for 2 minutes and watched the clock and after two minutes my arm raised and then lowered back down. I didn't ask or tell my brain, it knew to lift my arm and then lower it by itself. I didn't say 'lift my arm now please and then return it back'. It's actually hard to think of anything TO describe when the brain and arm just function by themselves

[CharliePurchase]

Charlie,That is a Huge realization in and of itself! Now go a little further and look for the the who that had all the labels stuck all over it. What did or does that consist of? And by extension the other people.I'm not trying to downplay the experience because anxiety has been experienced here as well.But again take anxiety apart and tell me beyond a physical sensation and appearing thoughts of aversion what is there? Sit with eyes closed and after you've settled a bit tell me in DE if you can say with certainty how tall the body is,can you accurately distinguish it's boundaries, can you know it's weight?

Well I suppose it begins from being a child, then a teenager, then an adult. So the growing body called 'Charlie' then gets other labels like 'quiet' or 'loud' or 'a fussy eater' starting from your parents. Then teachers add labels like 'good at Maths' 'bad at science' 'lacks concentration' and then I suppose your peers at labels 'funny' or 'unpopular' and then when you go to work it carries on 'best salesperson' 'lack motivation' but I suppose the labels added later and later are all a direct result of the labels you already had. So the labels given as a child are creating the future adult and its labels. And then you are the sum of all the labels and that is who you have to be and who everyone else around you expects you to be.

Then I think that creates the anxiety because you are stuck in your box full of labels and maybe you don't want to anymore. When I pick anxiety apart there is nothing really there, it is just feelings or fear and the sensations associated with worry and fear like racing heart or feeling sick. They are feelings and sensations in the body but Anxiety in itself isn't actually a thing, it's actually just another label to add on

When I sit with my eyes closed and think of the answers its a bit like a black hole, it doesn't have boundaries or weight or height its vast but immeasurable. It would be impossible to know for sure any of the answers i think

[Sleepwalker]

Charlie, Welcome back. I'm happy you are feeling better. I am traveling today so you may not get a response until tomorrow.

[CharliePurchase]

Thank you. Have a safe journey :)

[Sleepwalker]

Charlie, Just a quick note re: housekeeping.If you are experiencing normal physical ailments or need to take some time to digest or work through what's presented here or simply get busy there is no need to explain.Please just let me know that you'll be back when feeling better or things quiet down. If however, you are experiencing strong reactions related to this process it's important you communicate completely and honestly what's going on. You can always do that through the email function it that's more comfortable than posting here. Thanks!

If for example the dog makes a sound, I don't do anything. The noise is just heard and then there is a reaction. As in getting up and checking or looking to see what the sound was. I don't go through a process intentionally to 'hear' or for sounds to be made and heard. And don't worry science isn't my strong suit

Does your saying "I don't do anything", relating to hearing the sounds of the dog, mean,A) you see there is no I that is or could be doing anything, that all just happens and then thoughts very quickly arise that take ownership of what already is, or B) there is an I, but it just does things automatically.Do you see the difference? Might there be an imaginary layer added on top of Direct Experience. Sounds are DE, visuals are DE,smell and taste are DE , sensations are all DE,thoughts are DE. They are all there with no doing. Is this true? Persistent thoughts arise that claim there has to be "someone" doing. Look closely can you directly experience the doer(I) doing ? If so please describe it to me.

So the labels given as a child are creating the future adult and its labels. And then you are the sum of all the labels and that is who you have to be and who everyone else around you expects you to be.

Please describe your experience when you read this: GREEN Note that this is a label.How is this particular label experienced? Is it experienced as the label implies?

When I pick anxiety apart there is nothing really there, it is just feelings or fear and the sensations associated with worry and fear like racing heart or feeling sick.

Again take a look at fear is there more to it than sensations and thoughts about those sensations. The same as anxiety, but a different thought label because the circumstance may be different. We have evolved so may labels as a means to communicate all the nuances of what is experienced and then we forget that they are merely labels. All labels occur in thought. All thought content is imaginary.

Then I think that creates the anxiety because you are stuck in your box full of labels and maybe you don't want to anymore

You've probably heard of the tale of the man that was walking down the road and came across a large snake and jumped back in fear.After looking carefully he realized it was just a coiled up piece of rope.No doubt there were strong physical sensations experienced until he realized it was an imaginary snake. Once he realized it was just rope he had no problem walking right up to it.

When I sit with my eyes closed and think of the answers its a bit like a black hole, it doesn't have boundaries or weight or height its vast but immeasurable. It would be impossible to know for sure any of the answers i think

Very Nice Looking!

[Sleepwalker]

Charlie, I said in one of the above posts that persistent thoughts arise. That was a poor description. More accurately thoughts persistently arise. BIG difference!!

[CharliePurchase]

Does your saying "I don't do anything", relating to hearing the sounds of the dog, mean,A) you see there is no I that is or could be doing anything, that all just happens and then thoughts very quickly arise that take ownership of what already is, or B) there is an I, but it just does things automatically.Do you see the difference? Might there be an imaginary layer added on top of Direct Experience. Sounds are DE, visuals are DE,smell and taste are DE , sensations are all DE,thoughts are DE. They are all there with no doing. Is this true? Persistent thoughts arise that claim there has to be "someone" doing. Look closely can you directly experience the doer(I) doing ? If so please describe it to me.

Hi Michael, no problems in regards to housekeeping. I will remain in touch if anything happens in future

I think that the sounds just occur, then the thoughts occur related to the sounds heard and then the physical body creates movement/action necessary.

Yes it is true, when i put some food in my mouth I don't actively choose to 'taste' it, the taste is just there. Otherwise I would choose which foods I like the taste of or don't. Or i could choose not to taste at all

No all of the above experiences are occurring of their own accord, I am currently eating, drinking, typing and thinking and it's all done automatically. Thoughts remind me of an auto cue- they just play in a constant stream through the mind giving things to say