It seems the time has come

[Ilona]

That's beautiful. :)

Here is an exercise for you, to see how language participates in the whole creation of illusion.
http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html

Write your observations from doing it.

Sending love.

[serafena]

Oh, that was delightful! I noticed I was getting frustrated or agitated or just tense the first time. "I don't want to do this right now!"
But as I did the second half without labeling everything as mine, I felt delight! The list went on and on with ease and a sense of play.

What a very clever exercise. Who knew there was so much tension in owning everything? HA!

Thank you =)

[Ilona]

great! good to notice, that ownership is tension..

how is seeking today? is there tension thinking about no self or it's all clear now?

[Ilona]

great! good to notice, that ownership is tension..

how is seeking today? is there tension thinking about no self or it's all clear now?

[serafena]

I'm allowing today. Specifically, I'm noticing a feeling of hopelessness -- one that has been around for years, and I can track it because the thought, "I want to die" has come into my awareness a few times. For the sake of clarity, I do not feel suicidal.

The difference today is that the thought has come up and I just wish to hear it, to listen to why. The first time it arrived today I was thinking this: "Yes, it IS nice to understand the ideas we've been talking about, but why aren't I feeling it all the way through?"

So perhaps there are expectations I wasn't aware of.

That said, so many shifts have happened that I couldn't have imagined. There have been conversations with people that I just couldn't stand before, and I loved them! All I could do was express appreciation to them, and the old story was gone. There has been a delicious peace about different things happening in my body and mind, just observation of them.

As I write that hopeless feeling is already sliding away, maybe because I'm not resisting it.

Allowing. That's what's happening LOL!

[Ilona]

Allowing.. That's beautiful! That's the way of least resistance :)
What expectations haven't been met?

Sending love

[serafena]

I can't identify any. I think I was assuming a feeling of frustration and hopelessness had meaning. Turns out feelings come and go LOL!

I feel a little bit...pregnant, maybe. Like something is coming.

[Ilona]

How is it going?
Do you notice anything different since we started this conversation?
In normal everyday situations, has anything changed?
What hasn't changed?

Looking forward to hear from you.
Love.

[serafena]

Man, I had a huge moment today. I have been thinking about expectation, and when I answered your question I answered about whether I had expectations about THIS process. I seem to have wide eyed innocence about it. I don't seem to have any stories about what it will look like or how my life will change...none of that can be found.

But I came to see the expectations for my life as I've perceived it very clearly, and what a huge (read: blubbering at the kitchen table) event that was. I had no idea how violently I have been using the stories I've told, been told, believed. Every single expectation that I've held for myself has become a weapon in my own hands, used to attack myself for being: a failure, a bad mother, lazy, unloveable, fill in the blank! And when I looked at ONE of those beliefs (about money and security at my age, blah blah blah) I found desperation to hold onto it. Something was certain that if I let go of the "shoulds" I would lose ALL HOPE of ever having financial security, or of paying the rent in a few weeks. It was insane. And precious. Guarding against something. Disappointment? Insecurity? Poverty? Shame? I don't know, nor do I care. It was like a little guardian demon trying desperately to protect...something.

Upon examination, there is nothing to guard, nor guard against. Who's guarding? Who's the one being protected? I would have to have AT LEAST two distinct personhoods to do that simple act, and I can't even find one LOL! Upon reflection, there is no reality to the story that I should be anything at all, and that if I'm not measuring up to some expectation, I have failed. Who wrote the story? Walt Disney, maybe. One day my prince will come, and we shall live happily ever after, probably with good insurance and a retirement plan!! HA!!

Exhausted now -- it's past my bed time.

[serafena]

Ah, you've posted while I was posting.

Yes, I've noticed many differences in day to day experiences. I have so much more appreciation for whatever I run across -- the "good" and the "bad", both of which are irrelevant labels at this point. For example, I have, historically, been very easily agitated by sounds (dissonant or clashing or just unpleasant sounds), and I notice that the body reaction still shows up, but that I can listen to, say, my dog chewing his toenails (kind of a weird example) without allowing the knee jerk reaction to take root. I notice the ability to feel a discomfort and just allow it to have its say, and in no way let it change my thoughts.

I have had the opportunity to speak with several people who have been difficult for me to speak with in the past, and I just loved every minute of it.

When an emotion comes up (this morning I felt ashamed and embarrassed at sleeping through my alarm and missing an appointment) I can just look at it. I don't try to run from it, fix it, analyze it. Very different.

It's different. Subtle, different, and I VERY MUCH enjoy not knowing right now. I have no idea about anything. Nothing at all. It's like I'm starting to see life with baby eyes again.

Thank you =)

[Ilona]

Wonderful to notice those subtle changes! Seeing through baby eyes feels like a new start, new beginning :) so much to explore...

Yes, all the shoulds and shouldn'ts create a distortion and are followed by unfulfilled expectations. Without them nothing is lost, only space gained. You can watch through the day and notice all the shoulds that pop up. They come to be inspected. It
It's like weeding mind garden of untrue thoughts.

Can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear now, that I, as a separate entity, is an illusion?
If so, are you ready for our final questions?
If not, what is in the way of yes?

Sending love.

[serafena]

I am quite sure that this "I" concept is just that -- conceptual.

Today is a great day for this! I am experiencing heightened emotions and body sensations (hormonal, if you'll forgive the disclosure), and I notice the habitual thoughts about "identity" seem more compelling. My first response to your question was tearful, frustrated, feeling like a failure, thinking I must have missed something. I sat down to write, though, and all of those things melted in the face of trying to come up with a way to express them. They don't stand up to observation. They just seem habitual. I can't find the failure. No one is frustrated. Tears seem to be happening no matter what, just a body's response to powerful biology, and they come without any apparent reason, so I just let them. Three bouts of tears so far, and it's early -- and since I cried upon reading your post, upon drinking the coffee I made (it was so tasty), and upon seeing how much of the snow had melted (gratitude at watching the seasons change), I can know without question that it is not personal.

So yes, bring it on!

Love!

[Ilona]

That's quite a reaction to my post.. Glad to see how it all cleared. Hugs.

Here are the questions. White lots!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Much love.

[serafena]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No! There is not! Thinking, searching, pondering, digging, nothing has turned up this separate thing that I have thought was real. It's just not there, and never was. There is no "me", no separate entity that can take credit (or blame) for anything that is going on, and there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
It seems to be the imaginary reference point, the concept that is used to point to what a body is experiencing, to what's being done, to what's being thought, experienced, felt...but that's it. It is, and has always been, a reference point, a convenience for communication. I can't offer verifiable evidence about when it starts, but I can make some observations and share theories. There is no memory from before the "I" existed, only after, but I recall repeatedly being told that "I" was doing some things and "mom" was doing something else. This was "my" toy, that was "dad's" cup. Repetition of an idea of separation when we are learning how to navigate the world ultimately brings about acceptance of it.

Imagine that there are only two human bodies on the planet with no inherent sense of separation. If one of those bodies experiences pain, there might exist a cognitive dissonance if it is observed that the other body is not responding to the discomfort in the same way. This might give rise to the thought that there is a difference, leading to the idea of protecting the body as a personal survival imperative and, again, with repetition it becomes habitual. All theoretical, but possibly interesting in some way.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
No gongs have gone off, it has been very subtle for me, but I notice a calm settling over me that has never been felt in memory. Frustration is gone. When something "goes wrong" there is no panic. There is a great sense of ease and simplicity. When I started this dialogue I was angry all the time, agitated, flailing about trying to find the thorn that constantly hurting. I knew that I was missing something that had to be so obvious, and I think that was why I was angry -- feeling blind and stupid! Now there is ease. There is deeper sleep. There is the sense of calm and security that has been missing while I was trying so hard to uphold a fiction.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
It was actually rather early in the dialogue, and it made the rest of the conversation obvious and effortless! When asked about the concept of identity I made the connection that any identity -- that of a person or of an inanimate object -- was only thoughts and words put into place to try to capture the reality of it in some way. The amazing thing is that any single word or thought superimposed upon anyone/anything reduces the reality of it, makes it smaller such that it can be contained for categorization or ownership or understanding. With this idea I realized that those things are impossible! It is convenient to be able to label things, to always have a word or concept that comes to mind when observing, say, a cup. But the truth of it is that we don't know the truth of anything we can observe. It's all mystery, all the time!

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? Give examples from experience.
It appears that thoughts arise without any real direction or control. Observation of this leads to the idea that any decision I think I make (which is derived from my thoughts) is only my personality choosing to agree with what seems to already be in place, and the same seems to be true of intention. If the thoughts rise unbidden, and I don't know where they come from, how are they "mine". Free will? Really thinking about it leads to the conclusion that any choice I make is either colored by my past experiences (therefore a reflexive thought) or by the decision to choose randomly (making it just a matter of a coin toss), and neither of those seem to be "self-generated will". Control is a hilarious idea to me at this point! One would have to control the unfoldment of an entire Universe in order to control any part of it! I'm reminded of Carl Sagan's quote: "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the Universe."

6) Anything to add?
Nothing was lost. Nothing died. Nothing was destroyed. As a matter of fact, when I saw the reality of some of the thoughts that I had been fighting against for YEARS, they were just allies on this road to discovery. This has been a lovely, succinct, beautiful facilitation of something so obvious that I couldn't see it, and so had not been able to do on my own. I have much appreciation for Ilona, and for everyone here who is sharing their experiences with those who have shown up frustrated or desperate or lost or suffering or just curious.

Much love and appreciation,
Serafena

[Ilona]

That was delightful to read! You fell right through the gateless gate! Welcome home..
It is amazing, how it's in the plain sight, when you see it, and how it's the least obvious question to ask- is there I? I'm in joy with you.

One of the guides has a question for you:
Is there an expectation that seeing through the illusion of self equals pleasant states?


Much love.