The Gate

Mornin Sikara!

Sarah thanks for your wonderful help so far, it has clarified A LOT for me

You are very welcome :)

Initially there was, definitely. But that seems to be diminishing as I see that anxiety is just an energy. I am now just curious and actually want the anxiety to be there sometimes so I can look at it!!! It may sound silly, but I am just interested now to learn about it.

Not at all. OK – I want you to spend some time just watching and noticing stuff come and go. Imagine you are a radio.
Do you ever know what song is going to play?
Does it matter to the radio what song plays whether it be a sad song or a happy one?
Does any song hang around permanently?
Which song causes anxiety before it gets there? Which song causes the radio to become anxious?
Would the radio be affected if it played nothing but sad songs?
Do the songs belong to the radio?

e. But wouldn't it be nice if we could all walk around like this 24/7??

Ah – grass is greener?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hey Sarah!!

Im away camping, so I will continue when I get back which is tomorrow.

Love

Sikara

Ok Sikara - have a lovely time!
Hugs S xxx

Hey SArah

Camping was great - and the best part was the tent collapsing on my dog and I in the pouring rain and having to sleep in a tiny car all night - with no anxiety - only a sense of excitement and adventure.

Not at all. OK – I want you to spend some time just watching and noticing stuff come and go. Imagine you are a radio.
Do you ever know what song is going to play?
Does it matter to the radio what song plays whether it be a sad song or a happy one?
Does any song hang around permanently?
Which song causes anxiety before it gets there? Which song causes the radio to become anxious?
Would the radio be affected if it played nothing but sad songs?
Do the songs belong to the radio?

No, the radio never knows what song is going to play. These songs, whether sad, happy or otherwise, just come on all on their own. It doesn't matter whether the song is sad or happy, as the songs are not the radio. No song hangs around permanently -songs just come and go. No song cause the radio anxiety , as songs are not the radio.
The radio would not be affected if the songs were only sad ones. No, the songs do not belong to the radio.

grass is greener?

I suppose. I just wish every body could discover, as I have, that we are not our thoughts and emotions and that they just come and go - from where who knows, and I will never know. If I speculated, it would all just be thoughts anyway. I would just like others to know that we do not have to so 'tightly' identify with thoughts and emotions. There seems to be almost a dropping away of identifying with thoughts and emotions here. What astounds me is the complete 'disinterest' now in the anxiety I had. It comes, I look at it rather than identify with it, and it goes. I mean, it hasn't gone for good, but I don't give that much of a crap about it, as I know that there is no one here to grasp onto it now. Thank you Sarah. I cannot say how this has happened, it just has and I appreciate your help with that.

I can see now, that the thoughts were expecting the 'no i' thing to be a mind- blowing insight. I think this idea came from movies that overdo the whole 'enlightenment thing' and that I thought that seeing no 'I' was enlightenment. Haha. It is as simple as learning any other piece of information, but my thoughts and mind said it must be more difficult to see and must come with bliss, peace and love kind of stuff. How ridiculous.

Hugs Sarah xxx

Hugs to you too

Sikara

Hi Sikara

Camping was great - and the best part was the tent collapsing on my dog and I in the pouring rain and having to sleep in a tiny car all night - with no anxiety - only a sense of excitement and adventure.

LOL!

No, the radio never knows what song is going to play. These songs, whether sad, happy or otherwise, just come on all on their own. It doesn't matter whether the song is sad or happy, as the songs are not the radio. No song hangs around permanently -songs just come and go. No song cause the radio anxiety , as songs are not the radio. The radio would not be affected if the songs were only sad ones. No, the songs do not belong to the radio.

Lovely. So relating this to what is directly experienced - are emotions yours? Is anxiety yours? Are thoughts?
What if thoughts come back with a vengeance or anxiety? What would mind that? What would say ‘this isn’t it’?
Is any state permanent?
What wants to hang onto something – keep it and control it?

I can see now, that the thoughts were expecting the 'no i' thing to be a mind- blowing insight. I think this idea came from movies that overdo the whole 'enlightenment thing' and that I thought that seeing no 'I' was enlightenment. Haha. It is as simple as learning any other piece of information, but my thoughts and mind said it must be more difficult to see and must come with bliss, peace and love kind of stuff. How ridiculous.

So lets have a little check up just to be thorough!

As always, in direct experience:
Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Is there doubt or un-clarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?
Hugs Sarah xxx

As well as the post above Ive pm'd you too! :)

G'day Sarah

Lovely. So relating this to what is directly experienced - are emotions yours? Is anxiety yours? Are thoughts?
What if thoughts come back with a vengeance or anxiety? What would mind that? What would say ‘this isn’t it’?
Is any state permanent? What wants to hang onto something – keep it and control it?

No, emotions aren't mine- which includes anxiety. Not only anxiety, but happiness, peace, anger, love - none of these belong to an 'I'. Thoughts - no matter their content - aren't mine. There is no me here to 'own' them. They are just things that come and go. Thoughts are already here with a vengeance . It no longer matters because theres' no 'I' . Anxiety still comes and goes - although , I must say, it is a lot less than previously experienced - but no one is here to care less anymore. These thoughts and emotions are just watched. I don't know how to explain it, but I don't care about them anymore. Keep in mind I have to say 'I' for ease of conversation. Nothing says 'this isn't it - well just a thought says it - but no separate being is here to say "oh this isn't it". The false sense of 'I' tries to grasp onto thoughts, emotions, and make them belong to it. The thoughts actually try to grab onto something.

So lets have a little check up just to be thorough!

As always, in direct experience:

Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
Or a self that is the doer, or can control what happens?
Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
Is the "body" just another thought label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?
Are the five body senses made to arise or experienced by this ‘self’?
Is there a self ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
Is there doubt or un-clarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

There is absolutely no self at all from my own direct experience. There is a false sense of self moulded by things such as emotions, thoughts, beliefs, memory etc. But you untangle these and let them fall away and what is left is nothing at all.
There is no doer, things are done on their own. I cannot control anything that happens, whether it is experiences, thoughts, emotions, etc. They just happen.
No, the body senses aren't made to happen by a self. Whatever comes into the senses just comes in. No one can control the senses. No one says: now I will hear something, and then hearing happens.
No, there is no separate self that is separate from the world and others.

There is absolutely no doubt here about all of the above. 'I' has been a false construction all along and I see that
very clearly and it really is very simple to see. You certainly don't need to go 'up to a mountain' or 'on a great spiritual journey' to see this. hahaha


Love

Sikara

Good morning Sikara!
Right then, with this lot take your time and answer as fully as needed to be clear please. Ill then show these to the other guides to check I have not left anything out! I told you I like to be thorough! And Ill pm you again! :)

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.

Describe it fully as you see it now.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?

Do you make anything happen?

Give examples from your experience.

Anything else to add?
Hugs Sarah xxx

Hi Sara

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is absolutely no separate entity. There never has been. This is an illusion that stems from identifying with the mind and what we are told by others.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.

The illusion of separate self would start in childhood, I believe, when we first start identifying with our name , and from there we start identifying with thoughts that say that there is 'me' and 'others'. This creates the lie of the 'self'. The mind plays a trick on us, one that we fall for so easily as we do not know any better. We are not told that the thoughts/emotions etc are just there and are not generated by us. So we believe that they are 'ours'.

Describe it fully as you see it now.

The 'I' is formed or moulded out of the clay of the thoughts, beliefs, perceptions emotions etc that we identify with - that we think belong to an 'I'. When we break the pot that is made out of this clay, it all crumbles away to leave nothing. This is what happens when we see that all along the 'I' was just rubbish. The thoughts, beliefs etc fall away to leave nothing.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days

.

It feels interesting. It is relieving in the sense that now there is not so much identification with thoughts and emotions. They are just seen, but not much stock is put into them. Apart from this there is no great change. There are no feelings of 'bliss'. It is very easy to see.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

There was no specific piece of information that pushed me over. It was gradual.

Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life?

No, as there is no 'I' that does any of these things.

Do you make anything happen?

No, because there is no I. The I cant control anything, or make anything happen as there is no i.

Give examples from your experience.

Take for example, when there is speech. There is no need to rehearse what is said. It just comes out. There is no one there speaking, it is just happening.

Anything else to add?

Not really, apart from the fact that it is clearly seen that there is no 'I'.

Thanks

sikara

Thanks Sikara. Will get back to you as soon as poss. Please keep checking in. OK! Hugs S xxx

Groovy, thanks Sarah