How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?

[Bill]

Hi Jocelyn

I put the quotes in the right places in the last long comment to be able to read it better.
There's no need to quote the entire proceeding comment unless there is some good reason to... it
just makes it longer and harder to read through.
See this link for a good explanation of how to use the quote function
but do know its really not that necessary. It's easy to refer up to a previous post.
http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

There is the stuff that crops up around “did I sign up for this?” or even rather “this is not what I signed up for.”
Frustrated!!

Just as you had these days in the past, they will more than likely be here now also.
As in the past... they eventually passed.. so will they here. All I can say is that they don't seem to stick quite as much as in the past.. normally that is.. :)

It looks like you are bringing up questions/concerns as you go along and are answering them yourself
This is good..... as only you know what's 'right' for you.
And you know, there really are no answers to some of this.. just more questions.
The thing about this is, its not what you think it is... you're finding that out.
Bliss is not here 24/7. Sticky situations remain. Arguments still happen with friends.
All of the emotions we thought we'd leave behind forever.. are.... darnit.. still here!
Nothing really has changed on the outside, if any at all, just our perception.
You mentioned its like 'removing a coat of armor'... Yes. good description.
the awkwardness you're feeling in certain situations... yes this can happen for sure.
Its seeing this 'control' we thought that we had... and seeing how false it was and is.

We can best describe this as that the I is not destroyed.. only seen through.
The personality is not changed, or does it somehow go away.
If anything, it might become even more visible as imagined fears are let go of and
we naturally just be who we are. (whoever that is) :)

-------------------------
Two things.. thoughts and looking

First.. Our thoughts are huge in our experience.
If you just look at what is arising right now,
Can you tell me where your thoughts come from?
Where do they originate? Can you see a point of origin?
Where do they arise?
Are the thoughts yours?
Also, in looking at the thoughts, do they all start out with an I/me attached?
or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?
In other words, are they all about you?



Second....You've seen on here we use the term 'LOOKING'.
a short video on this is here: https://youtu.be/wyNwhK2Ur1c
Watch it a few times if you can.. its very good.
Then, can you give me a description of what this is...this LOOKING?
How would you describe, how to LOOK, as we are using the term?

[noselfintexas]

-------------------------

Two things.. thoughts and looking

First.. Our thoughts are huge in our experience.
If you just look at what is arising right now,
Can you tell me where your thoughts come from?
Where do they originate? Can you see a point of origin?
Where do they arise?
Are the thoughts yours?
Also, in looking at the thoughts, do they all start out with an I/me attached?
or does the I attach to the thought somewhere?
In other words, are they all about you?

It would seem that thoughts come from this idea of me because they are predominantly centred on my experiences and the way I view myself.
They seem to originate sometimes from sensations or sensations originate from them but I can’t pin point an exact origin. Some of them seem to originate in popular thinking of society. Like opinions of what is right and wrong.
I can’t honestly say where they arise but it always seemed as though all of this was happening in my head and then the result of the thoughts would manifest in my body as sensations of anxiety or intense emotion or love/warmth felt around my heart. I always felt completed dominated and terrorised by my thoughts.
I always believed that they were mine but now I am not sure but they certainly still feel like mine.
Yes all of them are about me in some way. Even when I am thinking of a situation or event in the past or future there is always an “I” attached. I am always the star of the movie. (Usually a drama smile)

Then, can you give me a description of what this is...this LOOKING?
How would you describe, how to LOOK, as we are using the term?

[/quote]

What’s coming up is what LOOKING is not;
It’s not thinking. It’s not a thought “to look”
It’s not an instruction, “Jocelyn look!”
It’s also not a sensation.

This is difficult to describe then.
There is an element of questioning, willingness, deepening. Going beyond thought. Not accepting thought as true.
Not accepting sensation as true either because these things are transient.

Being a verb LOOKING seems as though it would always be happening, evolving.

Are we ever done LOOKING then? It seems not, so long as we are living here we will always have the desire to look at things for truth.

[Bill]

hello Jocelyn,

Looking is simply noticing what's going on (with all the senses)
It's always happening.. even if we don't seem to be paying attention...

There is an element of questioning, willingness, deepening. Going beyond thought. Not accepting thought as true.
Not accepting sensation as true either because these things are transient.

yes, I see where you are going with this...
Not sure if its beyond thought.
We don't denigrate thoughts here, thinking that they are bad or wrong... no.
We do like to look at them to see if they are true.
We find what our senses tell us (before labeling happens) as being as close to 'real' as we can get.
In other words if I touch a table.. the touching feeling is something indescribable, yet real...
then, thinking about 'touching a table' is merely a thought.... not anything real in the same sense.

Our best pointer, is 'just look'.
Just look at what's here.. now.
If you do that now.. can you find a 'self' or an 'I' anywhere?

-------------------

On thoughts:
Yes, thoughts seem to appear out of no where.
We can't really find an origin point.
It appears we are thinking them, but are we?
Do you know what your next thought will be? For real. not a contrived situation.
How about sometimes some weird thoughts come in... where did they come from? You chose them?
Can you stop your thoughts from arising?

Yes sure, there is this seeming control.
But is it true?
Is it really true?
Are you really in control of your thoughts?
Check for yourself.

--------------------

Try this small exercise. Look at the computer.
Is it more correct to say, it is A computer? or MY computer?

Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?
How do we possess something? What is the process? How is something made 'ours'?
(this is very simple and not a trick question) :)

[noselfintexas]

Hi Bill am still here but am busy with my husband today (we are off Tuesday's and Wednesday's) and haven't had a chance to quietly look and respond. Will revert tomorrow. Just checking in.
Just a note my sense today is that I am trying too hard.
There is a recurring thought. 'Just relax into it'
That's what's there and so it's perfect.

[noselfintexas]

Hi Bill

Looking is simply noticing what's going on (with all the senses)
It's always happening.. even if we don't seem to be paying attention...

This became so evident to me yesterday. My husband and I went to see a movie. I was suddenly aware at some point that I had become so enthralled with the characters and their drama, I had "forgotten" for a moment that I was in a movie. Of course I hadn't really forgotten, I just wasn't paying attention to the "I" that was watching and so she disappeared. My attention was completely focused on the characters and the story. This is how it is in the movie of life too. There I am so wrapped up in the "I" character that I "forget" that there is in fact no "I" at all. Just life happening. But I act as though the separate self is managing the show. Now of course functionally we need this to happen or I would become unable to fasten my own laces, (laughing)
The point of all of this is that there was no momentous shift in consciousness between remembering I was in the theatre to when I was enthralled in the screen drama. Nothing "happened" I didn't levitate and there was certainly no angels singing me on and patting me on the back. My life also didn't spontaneously improve when I once again saw the movie and the screen. It was effortless, no trying involved.
Then the little AHA!! That's what this is, the gate, the seeing, the awakening etc. Its a tiny "shift" for want of a better word because there is no direction to it, in perception. There "I" am tying my laces and yet there is only the tying really happening. Where did the thought, "you need to tie your laces" even arise from? "I" have no idea but its there and I am grateful so I don't trip. :)

Not sure if its beyond thought.
We don't denigrate thoughts here, thinking that they are bad or wrong... no.
We do like to look at them to see if they are true.

Yes I get this now too. Thoughts just come and go. There are some that seem to be completely identified with the separate self, they sometimes brought pain and anxiety and other times not. I had judged those as wrong and also wanted them to no longer happen. "When I was awake my life would be without pain or anxiety then by definition also without joy and love(no wonder I was anxious)". HMMM think you are in the driving seat much? Rather all of those thoughts exist and they will come and go and there will be sensation in the body and there will be things that happen. Nothing will change and everything will be different. Like being "IN" the movie or being "IN" the theatre watching the movie. Same surroundings, different looking. A non-event indeed.

[

b]If you do that now.. can you find a 'self' or an 'I' anywhere?[/b]

-------------------
Boy you would laugh because I have looked. There is the idea of her this Jocelyn who I have identified with my whole life. Certain thoughts that I thought made her. A personality that was so unique and so flawed it was never good enough but in truth that's all I can find. Images of her in my mind and personality acting, it seems like a separate "I" There is the physical aspect of her and there is still identification with this. "I am not thin enough." "I am aging." etc. "My hands typing on the keyboard, even "my thoughts" although I am not the originator of these thoughts but seem quick to own them.

On thoughts:
Yes, thoughts seem to appear out of no where.
We can't really find an origin point.
It appears we are thinking them, but are we?
Do you know what your next thought will be? For real. not a contrived situation.
How about sometimes some weird thoughts come in... where did they come from? You chose them?
Can you stop your thoughts from arising?

Yes sure, there is this seeming control.
But is it true?
Is it really true?
Are you really in control of your thoughts?
Check for yourself.

If I was really thinking them then surely I could unthink them or better still, not think them and God knows that hasn't worked out for me at all. So the perceived or seeming control hasn't worked anyway. Remember my thread started with "How do I escape the tyranny of my thinking?" Its clear from that statement that I was anything but in control of my thoughts and also how desperate I was to escape. Which is what "I expected" from this awakening thing- no luck there (laughing)
Although relinquishing the reins of thinking has brought more light and relief, rendering escape rather unnecessary even when thoughts that are linked to pain arise. Less warring with thoughts overall. Judgement starts to fall away.

--------------------

Try this small exercise. Look at the computer.
Is it more correct to say, it is A computer? or MY computer?

Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?
How do we possess something? What is the process? How is something made 'ours'?
(this is very simple and not a trick question) :)

Its more correct to say A computer but I know I most often identify it as MY computer. I remember one of my daughters first words was MINE! Makes me smile as I realise we learn this MY label very early on in life.
We just label it MY and so its ours. Then we put a lot of effort into protecting whats ours. Wow there's a thought hey? All that energy I spent proving an attachment to things and people that in fact never existed.

There is excitement arising as this is starting to makes sense. An urgency to keep having this conversation, is that coming from a place of genuine curiosity as in "what else is there to look at?"

Or is it coming from a place of seeking, "I need to see in order to transcend something."

Just checking that.

It seems to be a genuine curiosity and excitement at what else is out there. The urgency has no anxiety attached as in I need to search for something. Its lighter and more fun, "come on Bill lets chat some more, this is great." smile
There is nothing to transcend just absolutely being here with this conversation.

[noselfintexas]

Morning Bill,

It seems that the "I want to transcend something here" or the "surely there is something here I am missing" thoughts are constantly recurring.

There are not only thoughts there is also a "sense of something missing." Still shows up as longing but there is no urgency or desperation and no seeking. Its different this longing to how it was before.

Although I know that the "I" that is missing and sensing missing something doesn't exist, I have looked and cant find her. This acting and feeling as the separate self still persists. Granted its not all the time. But its very present today.

So my question is whether this is habit? Just a lifetime of thinking in a certain way and so it sticks around a bit?
Or is there something that I am indeed missing? Even as I write this I think who would miss it anyway? But the sense of this seems real.
What is behind this sense of missing something? Is it an invitation to look deeper? Maybe just an invitation to look.
Who or what is inviting me?

[Bill]

hello Jocelyn,

Your question is a very common one...
"Now that I've seen thru the illusion of self.... why is it sticking around?
Why do I still feel like a 'me'?"

Even though the illusion is seen through.. the I is not destroyed.
Whether its a habit as you suggest or conditioning or ingrained... who knows?
However, if you stop, and look, its easily seen again that it is just an illusion.
A simple but powerful and intoxicating one.

Remember from the list of 'myths'...
This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I

Theres nothing you can do to alleviate this.. I will tell you that right now.
You can't get rid of it or wish it away.
Seeing the conceptualization of the self... the 'I' is just that.... seeing.
Nothing else really changes. It does not go away or retreat.. although it may seem like it at times.
as you wrote in your post...

There I am so wrapped up in the "I" character that I "forget" that there is in fact no "I" at all. Just life happening. But I act as though the separate self is managing the show. Now of course functionally we need this to happen or I would become unable to fasten my own laces, (laughing)

yes that is perfectly stated.
-----------------------

It seems that the "I want to transcend something here" or the "surely there is something here I am missing" thoughts are constantly recurring.

There are not only thoughts there is also a "sense of something missing." Still shows up as longing but there is no urgency or desperation and no seeking. Its different this longing to how it was before.

What is missing?
What are you still seeking?
If you knew what it was... what is it?

-----------------------------------

Like what you wrote in the long post.
About the movie, and getting lost in it..
Good stuff.
And about thoughts... this is the most common thing we see..
Everyone comes here and has this obsession to change their thoughts or eliminate them
or somehow doctor them up so they are always 'pleasant'...
That happening in reality is never going to be, as we see we're not the author of them.
Thoughts don't have to be manipulated.. it never worked anyway.

It seems to be a genuine curiosity and excitement at what else is out there. The urgency has no anxiety attached as in I need to search for something. Its lighter and more fun, "come on Bill lets chat some more, this is great." smile
There is nothing to transcend just absolutely being here with this conversation.

We can dialogue here as long as you have questions.. don't feel a hurry to leave.
Also feel free to write here as you need want... whether I've responded or not.
I will catch up eventually..
This is 'your' forum here - for you.

-----------------

Could you answer the 2nd part of this question?
I didn't see a clear answer in your post.

Try this small exercise. Look at the computer.
Is it more correct to say, it is A computer? or MY computer?

Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?
How do we possess something? What is the process? How is something made 'ours'?

[noselfintexas]

Morning Bill,

Thank you for this space.

What is missing?
What are you still seeking?
If you knew what it was... what is it?

The only answer that comes up is peace. I want to live a life of less resistance. I want to feel the hand of God in my life and feel as though I am fulfilling my potential.
As I write the sentence I can see the "I" thought intrinsic to the sentence and of course what I want from my life is what is already present. It’s only the "I" judgement that says that what’s in front of me is not OK and therefore is being resisted. The one resisting is the same one who is judging and both are just thoughts. The idea of fulfilling my potential is also just a thought. How could life fail to fulfill itself?

“This is not good enough.” Is this true? Can it be true? Only in so much that a separate being is saying its true and I cannot find that self so then what is happening right now is exactly how it should be and there is the truth. The separate self, large and in charge constantly looking outward and judging what’s good and what’s bad. Funny when I look at it now but this has also caused a lifetime of pain.

What is left is a strong desire for the truth. I want to spend my time and energy in truth, I am no longer enamored with the illusion. I don’t think I ever was which is why the seeking but now nothing less will do.

Try this small exercise. Look at the computer.
Is it more correct to say, it is A computer? or MY computer?

Can you attach a computer to a self? If so, how do we do it?
How do we possess something? What is the process? How is something made 'ours'?

Its more correct to say A computer but most often I would label it MY computer.
We make something ours by simply labelling it. Which is a thought. The computer is in front of me but the separate self assumes ownership and puts a label on it. Then of course I would have to put energy into defending that stand. For example if someone took MY computer I would feel loss.

I wrote in my previous post how this reminded me of my daughter. From the age of around 1 she would walk around holding onto things and say loudly MINE! Applied it to most everything she saw including her parents. We laughed of course it was so cute but now I see how early on this separate self is reinforced and learnt.

[noselfintexas]

Just sharing something else which I found interesting.

Yesterday was an emotional day. I told you that I recently immigrated to The US and some days the grief for my family and the life I left behind is very present. It feels like a break up, there is heart break and loads of tears. Images of my sister and my daughter in SA flood my mind.

I spent the day looking at the grief, embroiled in it at times and there is also some acting out and a looking outward for relief. But mostly a lack of judgement around it and an allowing. It arose without warning and without origin and of course in the same way it passes.

And then awareness of a follow up thought process along the lines of "trying to retrigger the heart break sensations."
Thoughts such as 'well how real were those feelings if they just passed so quickly?"
Also 'How could you have forgotten your family so quickly?" Guilt sensation in the past would be attached here.

The separate self thinking almost delighting in pain. So I watched those too.

Is it true that my attachment to the pain could make these emotions any more real? No because they are all arising without me as the manager. So the sensations and thoughts are all real there is just no "I" orchestrating them.

[Bill]

...........................
Is it true that my attachment to the pain could make these emotions any more real? No because they are all arising without me as the manager. So the sensations and thoughts are all real there is just no "I" orchestrating them.

Nice looking there.
What we find is that there is no easing or getting rid of painful emotions.
If anything, they seem to be felt more fully.. at least for most..
And then let go of faster.... like they don't want to stick around.

I like how you questioned your thoughts and looked at them to see if they are true.
This is a powerful inquiry we can do on anything that comes up.

“This is not good enough.” Is this true? Can it be true? Only in so much that a separate being is saying its true and I cannot find that self so then what is happening right now is exactly how it should be and there is the truth. The separate self, large and in charge constantly looking outward and judging what’s good and what’s bad. Funny when I look at it now but this has also caused a lifetime of pain.

We make something ours by simply labelling it. Which is a thought. The computer is in front of me but the separate self assumes ownership and puts a label on it. Then of course I would have to put energy into defending that stand. For example if someone took MY computer I would feel loss.

Looks like I missed that the first time but this is the important thing to see...
that ownership is just another thought.
So to sum up our look at thoughts...we don't seem to know where they come from
It seems like they are ours but we can't stop them
If we look at what's real, we can't really say we are in charge of them
Yes, there's seeming control, but not ultimate control.
We don't know what our next thought will be.
We can't stop our thoughts.

Also most all of our thoughts are possessive
in the sense that they are about us, in some way shape or place.
And ownership, possession is really not possible without a thought.

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?
Lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?

--------------------------------------------------

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

[noselfintexas]

Stuck stuck stuck stuck stuck!!
Waves of emotion and thinking have been flooding my consciousness like a rebel "self" that keeps pulling the blinds back down.
I will respond to the previous post I am just sharing my internal scream.

[noselfintexas]

“Also most all of our thoughts are possessive
in the sense that they are about us, in some way shape or place.
And ownership, possession is really not possible without a thought.”

This seems so strong that even the knowing this is true doesn’t completely eradicate the sense of the “I” but then back to the expectations. This is not about getting rid of the ego or the personality. Will this get less though? Can you share with me a little of your experience?

When I first came to LU I had an experience of understanding that there is no separate self, which lasted a while, I get that it was a state (now I realise) but a little peace please. Surely there must be some sort of lasting peace to be working from a place of really seeing. It feels a little like I am going round in circles, chasing my own tail. I want to know this through experience and not just through thought.

Now how about the body? Is that owned and controlled in reality, by a self?
Lets look at it and see if there is an owner or entity controlling it.
Lift one of your hands. either one.
Move it to the right. Now move it left. Look with your eyes what is happening. Did a self move the hand?
Or did the hand just move?
Direct observation. Move it again. Check it.
Which is more true, the hand moved, or a self moved the hand?

The hand appears to move by itself. Even as I type on the keyboard its all happening without any self orchestrating it. But I had always assumed that “I” was the one writing, that the thought creating the writing was created by me. But actually the thoughts are arising in the mind and the hands respond appropriately.

--------------------------------------------------

Well its a very simple thing that needs to be resolved...
There is this thought, I,... and once you see that I is just a thought
And you see that thought itself does not think
It clicks!
Its very very simple.

“I” am still battling here. It feels like something is blocking the seeing. No click. Frustration again.
My head hurts actually with all of this. I get that the “I” is just a thought but that is purely intellectual at this stage. Not sure if this makes sense.

[Bill]

Hello Jocelyn,

Well we never promised that this would be a walk in the park.
There are days... and then there are days.
Doubt will creep in, and once it does you get what you're feeling in your post.
Its OK.... don't worry too much about it. It happens to everyone.

This seems so strong that even the knowing this is true doesn’t completely eradicate the sense of the “I” but then back to the expectations. This is not about getting rid of the ego or the personality. Will this get less though? Can you share with me a little of your experience?

How about you answering your question... what are you finding?

This seems so strong that even the knowing this is true doesn’t completely eradicate the sense of the “I” but then back to the expectations. This is not about getting rid of the ego or the personality. Will this get less though? Can you share with me a little of your experience?

It can seem like less at times, and then not. It is usually much easier seen thru.. Usually!

The hand appears to move by itself. Even as I type on the keyboard its all happening without any self orchestrating it. But I had always assumed that “I” was the one writing, that the thought creating the writing was created by me. But actually the thoughts are arising in the mind and the hands respond appropriately.

this is what is usually seen.. that the body responds without much direction from thought.
No one seems to be in control of the body, so what is happening there?
No one seems to be controlling and generating the thoughts either.
So how is a choice made if not in thought?
Or is a choice even made at all?
Is something doing all this, that you can point to or locate?

------------------------

Do this little exercise—close your eyes and imagine you are holding a large watermelon in your hands.
Imagine it so vividly that you feel its weight, shape, temperature, texture of the skin, its scent,
the hollow sound when you knock on it. Hold it there, sensing it vividly. Now open your eyes and look.
What happened to the melon?
The sensation was so believable.
Was the melon real?

[noselfintexas]

Hi Bill,

“How about you answering your question... what are you finding?”

Very interesting few days actually. The feeling of not being the “I” comes and goes, seems there was an expectation of permanence but I am finding it is more transitory.
I was on my morning walk and there was a “message” – you cannot fail at this because it’s what you are. There is no you to “get” it, it’s just a relaxing into knowing what you are. Like a tree doesn’t stress about getting how to tree. It just follows the infinite intelligence programme that is “tree”.
You are Consciousness expressing itself locally through this body/mind.

Of course then it would appear that being the “I” comes and goes because that’s how the “programme” works. But it’s ALL inclusive, I cannot stop being pure awareness even if I tried, but a belief in a separate self can make it feel as if I am NOT that. That’s the illusion.
The way I was approaching the Gate was mostly conceptually, I was trying to THINK myself awake. Isn’t that just a beautiful hiding game of Consciousness hiding behind a false self that was desperately trying to figure everything out when in fact the more I was thinking the more triggered into the separate self I became.
From Scott Kiloby’s work in the past I remembered him saying to rest as awareness several times a day, this helps. Especially when I notice that I have attached the “I” story to the thinking. If I rest then this usually passes as you say USUALLY.

’this is what is usually seen.. that the body responds without much direction from thought.
No one seems to be in control of the body, so what is happening there?”

It’s strange because I don’t know who or what is in control of the body, of course I used to think it was me but I am not in control of my own breathing so I am not sure why I thought I was in control of the other stuff. The body seems to work through an intelligence for want of a better word, the same “stuff” that seems inherent in all living things on this planet. This intelligence expressing itself through every living thing. Sometimes I think of the body/mind as the instrument or the organism and Consciousness as a sort of programme.

’No one seems to be controlling and generating the thoughts either.
So how is a choice made if not in thought?
Or is a choice even made at all?
Is something doing all this, that you can point to or locate?”

I have been thinking a lot about this effect of choosing. For eg. I love my yoga classes but some mornings I wake up and go to class and other times I stay in bed and snuggle with my husband. Who chooses? Is it me? It feels like me. Wake up. Thought 1- shall I go to class? Thought 2- or shall I stay in bed. But the separate self who appears to choose is also a thought and as you said in your last post, thought can’t think. Now if we follow the discussion as from earlier, thought itself does not create movement? As in it’s not the thought “get up and go to yoga” that creates the going. Has the going already been decided by the programme designer? It all seems so random also pointless because what am I doing here if “I” don’t get to make any real choices or decisions. Sometimes my programme is unpleasant too, such as being so far away from my family. Who makes plans and works towards seeing them? If we are to follow again how we have been speaking then seeing them or not has absolutely nothing to do with me. There is just a natural flow of life and it will move towards them (my family) and away from them and “I” am left to navigate the flow.
Allowing the heart break to come and it does pass but longing to see them still remains. You can say it’s a story and I get that only a separate self could be attached to family as there is no other either. But in this place that hurts and here there is such a thing as being together physically and physically far apart and there is pain in that.

“Do this little exercise—close your eyes and imagine you are holding a large watermelon in your hands.
Imagine it so vividly that you feel its weight, shape, temperature, texture of the skin, its scent,
the hollow sound when you knock on it. Hold it there, sensing it vividly. Now open your eyes and look.
What happened to the melon?
The sensation was so believable.
Was the melon real?”

What does this prove? That something imagined vividly is as real as an actual object? So what though? I don’t see gravity but I see the effect it has, just as I don’t see the “I” but “I” see the effect it has. There is relationship and love and good that is done by people in the world. Consciousness is expressing itself through this body/mind and that is real. What is not real is the “I” that thinks it’s the manager. Ok but what does that mean for me? Do I just sit at my lap top and wait for life to spontaneously pour through me? Because since I have started this enquiry at the Gate that’s all I want to do. Sit and question, see then don’t see. Feel connected then back into separateness again. It feels so pointless.

[Bill]

Hi Jocelyn,

Expectations are what happens when we look past what's here now.
Hoping for something better, more fulfilling, more pizazz, more 'meaning', etc.
Seeing that we have them is a big first step.
Not that they will all just disappear all at once..
but being open to allowing them to drop as we see them..

I was on my morning walk and there was a “message” – you cannot fail at this because it’s what you are. There is no you to “get” it, it’s just a relaxing into knowing what you are. Like a tree doesn’t stress about getting how to tree. It just follows the infinite intelligence programme that is “tree”.

A 'message' would be what? in it most simple form?

Consciousness is a word I try and stay away from...
It conjours up alot of the new age/new thought spirituality 'beliefs'.
Can you see 'consciousness'? Is it verifiable in this way?
If not its more than likely a concept.
This is our work here.. to expose what's real, and what's merely conceptual.
Is this something you maybe have acquired through osmosis from the spiritual community?
We are really wanting to laser in on things like this to see if there's any verifiable truth to them.

But it’s ALL inclusive, I cannot stop being pure awareness even if I tried, but a belief in a separate self can make it feel as if I am NOT that. That’s the illusion. The way I was approaching the Gate was mostly conceptually, I was trying to THINK myself awake. Isn’t that just a beautiful hiding game of Consciousness hiding behind a false self that was desperately trying to figure everything out when in fact the more I was thinking the more triggered into the separate self I became.

Along the same lines.....How do you know you're pure awareness?
We are not into replacing the 'I' with things like awareness, pure awareness, consciousness or anything like this.
I agree with your basic points in these sentences.... but do look at this identification you have going with these words.
All we can know for sure is that what we experience, is it.
Any names given to 'it' seems to be something that will have to be let go of sooner or later.
This is sprinkled throughout your post in many places.
Just LOOK. That would be my suggestion.

In reading your post I'm feeling a letdown and despair in your words.
This is not unusual.
All our lives we've been told we had to do this, do that, strive for this, strive for that...
That this has meaning.. that doesn't and we had to go for it that had 'meaning'.
Then life happens, as it does.. with all its wildness and we sometimes feel letdown and lost.

We are here to help you to learn how to LOOK to see what of this is true, or just mental concepts.
The key thing here is to keep looking at these as they come up.
They will continue to come up.. For most of us we find all our core beliefs come up to be looked at.
Again, I would say to you to 'just look' as these things pop up.. without making final conclusions.
Look to see what's real, and what's just another of the countless concepts we have taken on to be 'truth',
but cannot be verified in actuality.