Requesting Ilona as a guide if possible.

[Ilona]

Hi ardi,
Nice to hear from you. We can continue if you wish to keep looking.
Seeing no self equals seeing that I is empty. Same stuff in different words.
In your experience, what does the word I point to?
Where is the I located? What does the I do?

Write what feels true

Sending love

[ardi44]

Hey Ilona.

In your experience, what does the word I point to?
Where is the I located? What does the I do?

The word "I" in my experience simply points to a thought about myself, which of course, is another thought.
The "I" in my experience I feel, is simply a thought used for navigation. In reality though, I can observe my thought and see that they alone cannot do anything. I feel this void or emptiness but I'm just not sure if this is awakening or not as it feels too simple to be it. It even feels like I've experienced this to some degree even before, but now it's different.

Ardi

[Ilona]

yes it is very very simple. so simple, that mind may reject that as being too simple.
can you say with a big fat YES, it is clear that separate self, i is an illusion?
how does it feel to answer as you answer?

sending love

[ardi44]

It feels very weird to answer this question.
Is the "I" an illusion? If illusion means for something to appear real but not actually be real then, I think so. I can't find that magical controller or self. I think I couldn't even find it before, I just believed it was real just like Santa.

But at the same time, here I am. I don't feel much different. Very similar thought are arising, I am still questioning everything ect. Is it supposed to be this way? It just feels like such a quiet shift, I mean here I am. I am still planning to go to the dentist as before this shift. Same thoughts, same plan, yeah.. Thats sort of how I feel but just less personal. So, I think I'll go with a yes as of now.

[ardi44]

In addition to my experience, there is more flow/intuition. That is what has changed as a result of the shift the most. But as I said, same thoughts, however more intuitive intelligence with thinking.

[Ilona]

Hi ardi.

Your answer does not sound very convincing. You seem to think and draw logical confusion, rather than answering from seeing/ your actual experience.
Are you certain or you just think you are?
There difference between seeing and thinking is huge. It's a difference between knowing and getting a new belief.
Which is it?

How do you know that there is or there isn't a separate self?
Write more!

Sending love

[ardi44]

Hey Ilona.

There difference between seeing and thinking is huge. It's a difference between knowing and getting a new belief.
Which is it?

I think at one point I fluctuated between seeing and thinking, but when I investigate my experience honestly, it's just obvious there is no me. But because of how simple and how much it didn't meet my expectations, I thought it wasn't it. But even that is another thought.
There has definitely been some sort of shift, but it is very overwhelming. Although I know now I am sure that the person I thought was an illusion, there are still so many questions arising (about the world we live in) but that's a separate issue. The "I" is an illusion yes, it is obvious.

Ardi

[Ilona]

Lovely, thank you !

i have a few 'final questions' for you. please take your time and answer from what feels true to you.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?


of course, this is not an end to exploration, only a beginning :)

much love

[ardi44]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There was never. The feeling of something being separate was caused and perpetuated by thoughts. It felt extremely real until it was seen from a different angle.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is simply, and I mean simply an idea about being a separate entity from life. It starts around the age of free when the sense of self gets stronger and more complex.

In my experience, this is how it worked. It starts from a thought that there is a "me" which is separate. From this concept arises the feeling and illusion of "I need to control life to make it go where I prefer" and the definitions keep on building and building to a point where it is stored as a energetic sensation. An energetic sensation is a very realistic and real experience where one actually experiences a separate self because it feels and looks that way. The same way you could say that your computer is separate from you. It's a very realistic illusion. It looks very realistic that things are separate from you, because it looks that way. Body here, rest of the world out there. But with clear investigation it is seen that there is no one separate from these appearances/thoughts. So although they appear separate, they ultimately aren't.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Desperation. A friend on facebook and ex-guide of LU helped me trigger the experience through provocative thoughts which I carefully investigated. To me I was tired of trying so hard for so long. I looked when I asked "who is seeing these words" . I saw that it can't be another thought, because thoughts can't see, you can only have the illusion that you can and basically continued looking at that.

5) Can you talk about decision, intention, free will, choice and control? What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

It's awesome I can speak from experience, rather then assumption now.
Decision is something that simply happens spontaneously, like everything else. The same with intention and free will. I can say, that I have the intention and desire to go for a walk soon, but I didn't choose having that feeling. Why didn't I choose sleeping? "I" seem to be completely moved by spontaneous impulses over 'I" obviously can't control. Control is ultimately an illusion but the feeling of it still exists, and I believe is still needed in order to function.

6) Anything to add?

I just wan't to say this realization is nothing I imagined it to be. It's so damn simple, and things feel very similar, (although the perspective is completely different). There is a voice in my head that says "maybe this isn't it" But come one, it's too obvious. Thoughts never had any control of there own.
2. Very painful emotions still arise, even often, but I as Ilona put it in her blog, life is like cards. You have no control over what card you'll pick next is. Sometimes you get good cards and sometimes not. I like that description a lot..

And lastly, my main fear was thought once I had an awakening experience I would loose are desire and motivation to think critically about the world of appearance. That I would take up stance in the non-dual perspective and deny the relative. But the paradox is (and I'm so exited for this) once I saw the world of separation was simply a thought, an illusion, now I can continue exploring the illusion world with even more excitement. I still have so, so many questions I wan't to answer and I will continue questioning everything about life very critically. It's so overwhelming, but interesting.
And thank you liberation unleashed for the work you do and yeah. I would say I am grateful but it feels kinda weird saying that now . Well I guess that's something worth questioning further.
Anyway, I think that's the main thing for now( I feel like I can go on forever) and I feel there's much to more to unfold.

Again thanks to all of you,

Ardi

[Ilona]

Hi Ardi,

thank you for beautiful and clear answers. as you can see your name has turned blue. hope you will participate in LU facebook groups and continue sharing and exploring there.

much love your way.

thank you for looking :)