Enough is enough!

[John Millar]

Hi John! Good to start our conversation again! :)

I played a gig today, (that was an awesome one, btw)
it's a bit late at night here in Japan ...

I will definitely respond you fully tomorrow, so please bear with
my short response. I'll see you tomorrow! :)

No worries! Just when you have time. Quite many activities over here in Finland too. Nice to hear about the gig, well done!

Still LOOKING!
John

[Bananafish]

Yes, some glimmerings, less verbalisation, less rip-shit-and-bust trying to change something. Sat in a regular meditation session on Friday night - will be doing a 10 day Jhana retreat starting this coming Friday (Jhana from the point-of-view of supporting insight practice). So, thought I'd do a bit of jhana practice, but it had no meaning, just sat LOOKING, beautifully ordinary, very still, not only no need to practise, but when trying to summon the will to reach access concentration, there was not really anything there to summon... However, I don't want to exaggerate here, meditation is a rarefied environment which has always 'worked' for 'me', except in terms of its professed goal, liberation! In a short walk a few minutes ago, there was some fantasizing going on - in one hour some students will be sitting an exam for the course I teach, and I noticed one of them hadn't done the course assignment, so when walking, out came a story built up on the student complaining about his course result... OK, just an empty story line...

Nice ... I've always felt that sitting quietly, with my back straight, helps me to LOOK.

Thoughts? Trying to respond to this based on here and now, not previous meditation experiences or such-like. The content of thought? Sometimes utilitarian, a useful label, a kind of medium, but when LOOKING? Empty, even thinking seems to be suspended. The thought "John". A useful way to refer to a mind-body life expression with a certain spacial-temporal integrity. But the content "John"? More help here, please, there's something here I'm missing!

Yes, LOOKING, in fits and spurts!

Yes, keep LOOKing at the empty nature of thoughts and the thought "I."

Right, right, hehe. But did you notice that this notion of ego-elimination, or whatever, is just an idea,
or thought?

I have noticed the futility or paradox of such a thought, but probably have not yet seen it as just an idea or thought. That's new fertile ground for LOOKING! Thanks!

OK, then, who can eliminate something that haven't existed from the beginning?
The mistake is always in admitting a subject to habits, which are actually nothing
more than habits ... no one's habits.

Do "you" have habits, or are habits just there happening?

Thanks for bearing with such a stubborn pedantic seeker. With research and music I can be too sloppy. But this is something to get right! But I guess it will happen when it happens. LOOKING is preparing the soil?

No, no, LOOKing is the fruition itself.
It IS happening right NOW, HERE! That's why I keep telling you to look
at reality, not some imagined future ...

[John Millar]

Nice ... I've always felt that sitting quietly, with my back straight, helps me to LOOK.

Yes, it's perhaps a bit like a test-tube experiment where some of the variables are removed, but very useful! The teacher (Leigh Brasington) will arrive tomorrow, a most interesting character! It'll be interesting dialoguing about the lack of a self with him. I realise this (the coming retreat) slightly corrupts what we have going here (the best use of the internet!), but just LOOKING! Not wanting to put this off after I've done the work I need to do before the retreat (actually, not so much), or until the retreat, or until after the retreat... LOOKING now, a slightly uncomfortable gut-heart response to a conversation (friendly enough) with the boss, reminding him I'll be away from tomorrow and incommunicado from Friday...

Yes, keep LOOKing at the empty nature of thoughts and the thought "I."

Sure!

Right, right, hehe. But did you notice that this notion of ego-elimination, or whatever, is just an idea,
or thought?

Nice, perhaps it is empowered with the idea 'absurd' but, yes, just an idea on top of an idea...

OK, then, who can eliminate something that haven't existed from the beginning?
The mistake is always in admitting a subject to habits, which are actually nothing
more than habits ... no one's habits.

Once again, thanks for this. A pertinent reminder. Oh dear! Yes, there is still the trying-to-solve/resolve thing going. No doubt there is still a lot to resolve, but please may I let go of the notion that there is a someone in here that needs resolving! Yes, just habits, just shards of personality ideas, uggggh!

Thanks for staying with this case! I'll try to check in tomorrow, then, there'll be a 10 day break in communication - no internet or anything where I'm going. This puts a whole new dimension on practice, but those habits... Simplicity, LOOKING!!!

[Bananafish]

Hi John!
Thanks for your sincere inquiry so far. :)

Good that you're participating in a retreat ... again, it's good
to go to a quiet place, sit, harmonising the breath, body, and so on.

(BTW, my last retreat was a pretty intense one, with lots of slapping ... which
turned to be awesome actually. :))

Hope you'll have a great retreat.
I'll be waiting for you.

Warm regards,

Bananafish

[John Millar]

Thanks so much, Bananafish!

Leigh is a great teacher, who, I trust I am quoting accurately, "has donated his brain to science"!

The retreats the group I sit with here in Helsinki organise are a real support. The basics, food and lodging are done well, but not over the top, the teaching is on a dana basis, and the teachers come from various strands of the Buddhist tradition, mostly the insight tradition in Europe and North America. Very little dogma and the teachers have wide experience, don't seem to stand on ceremony...

Seems to be that there is a lot of very pragmatic teaching happening now, a real impetus to cut the crap and find out what's really happening. Liberation Unleashed is an exemplary example of this!

The retreat theme, if such is needed, for this mind-body, will be LOOKING, especially the selfing thing that often seems to arise and claim the experiences (jhanas or whatever) that arise, to make them safe - a kind of ego kick-back after ego-defying experiences. Time to let go of this see-saw, in particular, SEE this thought that there is an ego to defy! Yes, "I" have made hard work of this business, not as hard as a certain Jed McKenna seems to have, but nevertheless, indulging in an internal crusade involving assumed entities with no self-existence!

Let's see what emerges from this retreat in a week or so! Wonderful work you are doing on this site, keep it up!

With deep gratitude
John

[John Millar]

Dear Bananafish!
The retreat was wonderful, now back at the wonder of watching fingers typing, text appearing on the screen. Perhaps it is relevant to recap some of the 'highlights' of the retreat, while realizing that what is gone is gone, and now is now... The focus of the retreat was the Jhanas (meditative aborptions), which Leigh presents in a way that is consistent with the early Buddhist Sutras (Pali canon) and suitable for lay-practitioners. There are 4 rupa-jhanas and 4 arupa-jhanas, although perhaps the Buddha didn't refer to the last 4 in those terms. It seems these are states that can arise that are reasonably universal - they may arise when just LOOKING, spontaneously, but there is a methodology flowing from Anapanasatti whereby they unfold in a natural way, after the 'effort' of arriving at access concentration and letting go into the first jhana - which has a lot of piti (intense energy and rapture). Of these, the 4th is the most profound, perfect equanimity (no piti or sukha). From there, a great place to LOOK! No sign of 'self', thoughts, if there are any just float by, no need to do anything... But, many other mind-states arise when just LOOKING (I could describe some of these, but...), bare attention, that don't quite fit the valid but prescribed Jhanas. There is no myopic adherence to the 'original' Pali canon here, but just giving some kind of framework for the retreat.
So much for that!
A lot of clearing work, once the normal day-to-day stuff is dealt with. Some new levels of awareness - for example - when actively letting-go, letting-go, letting-go, there is an intense pillar of energy (not quite the same as the jhanas), that has now become smoother, letting go of the idea that there is an entity seeking emancipation...
So much for that!
During a walk in the nature during the retreat, there was about 40 minutes of just walking. Some thinking, possibly some I-referencing, but with an underlying ground of non-clinging awareness that was secure, and underlying the whole living livingness...
So much for that!
One walking meditation period, it was as if the lights were switched on. Just a very strong presence - dissipated after (quite) a while.
So much for that!
In the last 2 or 3 days of the retreat, after 'I' had securely established the 4th jhana, jhana practice became increasingly absurd. The mind-body did not go in that direction. One time, out of curiosity attaining access concentration (rather than just LOOKING), the mind was given to LOOK at the idea that there was someone/thing to LOOK, it was so absurd, there was so much inner laughter. Clarity - not really any 'special meditation state', just a 'normal' but clear transient realization that there is no self, and it is ultimately ludicrous, but supremely hilarious, to be caught up in non-self trying to find non-self.
So much for that, and one or two other transient non-self experiences...

So, this has been a great week, and verifying what is found in the various doings, dialogues and links associated with Liberation Unleashed! Your call for LOOKING is working! Thanks so much!

Are you willing to continue our dialogue, Bananafish, and prod this sluggish awakening to the Gateless Gate?
It is clear that I have been putting the cart ahead of the horse, thinking that every habit pattern, emotional trauma, lifestyle aberration, etc., etc., has to be resolved before liberation from selfing... A lot of clearing has happened, which is fine, but the point has been missed, even though it was no-self writing by Wei Wu Wei and others that originally resonated and prompted me to start this long journey!

Trusting you are keeping well, looking forward to hearing from you!

[Bananafish]

Hi John! :) Glad to hear from you, and also glad that
you spent a wonderful time in retreat. Thanks for the report!


Now, back to our basic inquiry ...

Does the "I" exist at all?
Where?
When?
How?

[John Millar]

Hi John! :) Glad to hear from you, and also glad that
you spent a wonderful time in retreat. Thanks for the report!

Thanks!

Now, back to our basic inquiry ...

Does the "I" exist at all?

No, other than several defense mechanisms around different assumed but non-existent self-personas, but not even these have come into play in the last couple of days. So, no. No "I". No "I"s (plural)

Just put the 'ego' to the test - read some controversial articles, etc. No, some kind of habit ingrained inner dialogue, but no tangible self-identification. This afternoon will be a very tough meeting about closing down one of our research facilities - let's see if there's any selfing there!

Where?

If anywhere, mostly the heart region, but that blockage seems to have smoothed or opened. Actually when actively enquiring in retreat, there seemed to be several active 'selfing' centres, none of which stood up to LOOKING.

When?

The last time was during the retreat (that would have been on Sunday morning) when I made a mistake about the first bell ringing (I had the second) and thought that the first bell was one hour too early. Daylight saving (summer time) ended that night, and I had turned my clock back 2 hours rather than 1 hour. There was some self-recrimination about that, even though the bells got rung at the right time (I found my error before the second bell was due). So, a judging mind about not being perfect... Didn't find any self when LOOKING, but it was clear that in the moment there was selfing, so I can't quite trust the non-self-identifying lightened state of being of the last few days...

How?

When I buy in to another's projection that there is a self in here somewhere, or when "I" get caught up with "my" actions or happenings in the world not measuring up to expectations in some way. This may not be happening, there have been those fruition experiences described in the review of the retreat, where the LOOKING you have prompted in this being has come to mind whilst meditating or walking, or eating, or anything-ing...

The open question is whether these were transient no-self-realizations or the real deal. The fact that there is some questioning might be a habitual scepticism or pedantry, or it may indicate that still deeper LOOKING is required. Just want to test all this in real life. It is now very effortless to let go into just walking, or whatever, but let's see. The difficult meeting is soon to begin, so I'll add a bit to this after the meeting. A stress test for this mind-body transient amalgamation of happenings!

Thanks for the questions, Bananafish!

[John Millar]

OK, so the said meeting is now over, time to go home. The bosses explained the need for savings, I then made the first comment in defense of the facility. There was some emotion present, but no self, just a certain heat energy, good that the bosses saw there was feeling in what I felt needed to be said, no need to hide or suppress anything. Some signs of assumption of some entity behind the eyes at some point, LOOKING, nothing there, just shadows of 'selfing' habit patterns. Made clear that I understood the bosses' difficulty in tough economic times.

So, that's the report on a difficult meeting. When they said our jobs were safe, it didn't really have an effect. Naturally, it is good to have a livelihood, but there's no inclination to defend what "I" do, or "my" job, or whatever. My defense in the meeting was on others' behalf, and on trying to keep a facility (high voltage hall) that will have increasing significance as Europe develops the electricity grid to connect solar resources in the south, wind resources on-shore and off-shore, customers that both consume and sometimes produce electricity (rooftop photovoltaics, etc.), etc., etc. Unfortunately, we have too many 'experts' at our university who seem to think that Finland can provide what it needs in the dark cold winter months from some photovoltaic installations that only stochastically produce in the summer... Well, this is all a bit of a digression, but some context...

Has the 'gateless gate' been reached? It is clear that this is just a beginning!

[Bananafish]

Has the 'gateless gate' been reached? It is clear that this is just a beginning!

Who reaches it? Is there anything to be reached? Isn't it a thought, or
imagination?

[John Millar]

Who reaches it?

No one...

Is there anything to be reached?

Seems a meaningless idea, but something has happened...

Isn't it a thought, or imagination?

Yes, a (rather pretentious!) thought concerning some imagined stage in liberation, letting go of self, 'no-self' letting go of 'no-self' - how absurd (smiling)!

So, what now? Practising no-practice? Allowing the layers of conditioned habit to fall away?
Seems worth celebrating, but there's no-one to celebrate...

But, tears of gratitude! Thanks Bananafish! Thanks to the wonderful founders of Liberation Unleashed and all the guides!

[Bananafish]

Who reaches it?

No one...

Is there anything to be reached?

Seems a meaningless idea, but something has happened...

Isn't it a thought, or imagination?

Yes, a (rather pretentious!) thought concerning some imagined stage in liberation, letting go of self, 'no-self' letting go of 'no-self' - how absurd (smiling)!

So, what now? Practising no-practice? Allowing the layers of conditioned habit to fall away?
Seems worth celebrating, but there's no-one to celebrate...

But, tears of gratitude! Thanks Bananafish! Thanks to the wonderful founders of Liberation Unleashed and all the guides!

Wowww ... nice to see joy and clarity in you!
Thanks for your patience, honesty, and passion, John. :)

Now, just to make sure (sorry for the redundancy ...), do you see it clearly?
If the answer is yes, we will proceed to some final questions for you to answer.

Is there still any doubt, or anything unclear?
If the answer is yes here, we can keep on inquiring.

Either way is fine. :)

[John Millar]

Now, just to make sure (sorry for the redundancy ...), do you see it clearly?

Thanks Bananafish, it is necessary to make absolutely sure!
Need a little time with this. See it clearly? No self in sight, but some there is still some clearing going on...

If the answer is yes, we will proceed to some final questions for you to answer.

Is there still any doubt, or anything unclear?

No doubt about no-self, but yes, some doubt about whether this is 100% clear at all levels of this being. Need a little time. A bit of upheaval happening, maybe just residual selfing's last stand...

If the answer is yes here, we can keep on inquiring.

Thanks for your care with this! Yes, I think a little more inquiring is in order, need to be totally free of this delusion/illusion!

Either way is fine. :)

Thanks!

[Bananafish]

Need a little time with this. See it clearly? No self in sight, but some there is still some clearing going on...

No doubt about no-self, but yes, some doubt about whether this is 100% clear at all levels of this being. Need a little time. A bit of upheaval happening, maybe just residual selfing's last stand...

I think a little more inquiring is in order, need to be totally free of this delusion/illusion!

Sure! :)
Can you describe in detail what it is to be cleared?

[Bananafish]

Just to let you know that I will be
busy tomorrow (after work, attending one of my best friends' wedding party,
playing some music for him), and might not be able to post a reply.

I'll definitely come back the next day.
Enjoy your inquiry, John. :)