could i have help please

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

Please share in as much detail as you can, what happens in experience such that it seems 'Mike is back in control'.

Many thanks!
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

Please bear with me as i'm not too good at expressing myself, especially in matters like this.

I suppose what i mean is that when i am at home, or work, where i spend probably 80% of my time alone i can stay aware, not letting my mind wander, just occasionally thoughts will pop into my mind, but as i pay them no attention they very quickly disappear. At these times the thought that i am not 'Mike' just a vessel that life flows through sits very comfortably with me, (although i must stress, it is just a feeling, i don't physically feel life flow through me) but once i am with other people and can't control my mindfulness as easily, then my conceptual thinking, prejudices and ego take control again. I sometimes walk away from a conversation thinking 'That wasn't me talking' and that i said things just to correspond to others around me.
I suppose another problem is that i read a lot that conceptual thinking is not good, and so i try to avoid it, but to ponder whether Mike is in control or not is conceptual thought (i think) so how much time can i give this question.

As i said previously, you may have your work cut out with me John, i am not highly educated, and have never met anyone on a similar path, the small amount of knowledge i have is taken from reading,

Thank you,

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

I suppose what i mean is that when i am at home, or work, where i spend probably 80% of my time alone i can stay aware, not letting my mind wander, just occasionally thoughts will pop into my mind, but as i pay them no attention they very quickly disappear. At these times the thought that i am not 'Mike' just a vessel that life flows through sits very comfortably with me, (although i must stress, it is just a feeling, i don't physically feel life flow through me) but once i am with other people and can't control my mindfulness as easily, then my conceptual thinking, prejudices and ego take control again. I sometimes walk away from a conversation thinking 'That wasn't me talking' and that i said things just to correspond to others around me.
I suppose another problem is that i read a lot that conceptual thinking is not good, and so i try to avoid it, but to ponder whether Mike is in control or not is conceptual thought (i think) so how much time can i give this question.

Mike, it's ok - I'm a very everyday fella - just been plastering the bathroom in fact :) (poorly, I may add) - so all is well.

Now, that sense of 'That wasn't me talking' - let's stay with that awhile.

What do you make of that Mike, that it didn't seem like you talking?

best wishes,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

Now, that sense of 'That wasn't me talking' - let's stay with that awhile.

What do you make of that Mike, that it didn't seem like you talking?

When i am practising my awareness i usually find that i don't feel the need to talk as often, and i am beginning to feel very comfortable in trying to remain present in the moment. however, when i find myself being drawn into discursive conversation, which is quite often being a lorry driver :) I increasingly feel uncomfortable with the situation and realise most of my discussions are almost 'set pieces' that i have used many, many times before.

It's almost as if i am taking part in a stage play, my character is 'Mike' the lorry driver, who is usually quite opinionated and always eager to express himself on almost every subject.

But i always feel a sense of relief when i climb into my lorry and relax into the moment, and almost always feel guilty for the opinions i have given as 'MIke'

I really hope you can make sense of that John as it is a situation that is becoming increasingly uncomfortable for me,

Thank you,

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Thanks Mike - really clear, on the button, reply.

Will post later this evening.

/John

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

Now, that sense of 'That wasn't me talking' - let's stay with that awhile.

What do you make of that Mike, that it didn't seem like you talking?

When i am practising my awareness i usually find that i don't feel the need to talk as often, and i am beginning to feel very comfortable in trying to remain present in the moment. however, when i find myself being drawn into discursive conversation, which is quite often being a lorry driver :) I increasingly feel uncomfortable with the situation and realise most of my discussions are almost 'set pieces' that i have used many, many times before.

It's almost as if i am taking part in a stage play, my character is 'Mike' the lorry driver, who is usually quite opinionated and always eager to express himself on almost every subject.

But i always feel a sense of relief when i climb into my lorry and relax into the moment, and almost always feel guilty for the opinions i have given as 'MIke'

I really hope you can make sense of that John as it is a situation that is becoming increasingly uncomfortable for me,

Thank you,

Mike

It makes perfect sense and is a description that I think many would recognise.

Now, our focus is on the very ordinary experience and feeling of being-Mike.

Let us home in a little.

As you read this sentence, do you have the sense that you, Mike, is reading this? That you, Mike, is looking out from behind the eyes?

Let me know if this is the regular feeling, experience.

Thank you,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John

As you read this sentence, do you have the sense that you, Mike, is reading this? That you, Mike, is looking out from behind the eyes?

Let me know if this is the regular feeling, experience.

Not so very long ago, in fact no more than three to four weeks i would have said Mike was reading and responding to this, and i would have to concentrate, usually alone to find myself present in the moment (I'm hoping that is the right description, 'present in the moment') i would have to work at staying centered, but very recently i feel something is changing, i now wake up and within moments i can drift into my calm state with ease, it is as if i am now a witness to things that are happening around me rather than the centre of things, (does that make sense?)

I now find that i have to prepare myself for my 'role' as Mike before starting work, and this is becoming increasingly awkward, not difficult because once i am 'Mike' i play a blinder, and never forget my lines :) but then i've had lots of practice, it is a character i am very familiar with.

But, as i said before, it is very comforting to drop the pretence and drive off as me, witnessing and experiencing situations as they unfold, without feeling i have to react.

Hope i'm making myself clear,

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

Not so very long ago, in fact no more than three to four weeks i would have said Mike was reading and responding to this, and i would have to concentrate, usually alone to find myself present in the moment (I'm hoping that is the right description, 'present in the moment') i would have to work at staying centered, but very recently i feel something is changing, i now wake up and within moments i can drift into my calm state with ease, it is as if i am now a witness to things that are happening around me rather than the centre of things, (does that make sense?)

I now find that i have to prepare myself for my 'role' as Mike before starting work, and this is becoming increasingly awkward, not difficult because once i am 'Mike' i play a blinder, and never forget my lines :) but then i've had lots of practice, it is a character i am very familiar with.

But, as i said before, it is very comforting to drop the pretence and drive off as me, witnessing and experiencing situations as they unfold, without feeling i have to react.

When you are 'Mike' do you have to also BE 'Mike'?

Let's say you are in the cab, in that wake place, and you get out to walk over to a cafe, and on the way, you see a friend, colleague, and in that blink, rather than 'fall into Mike', you stay in the wake place, and simply play 'Mike' perhaps watching the whole time...then when you got back in the cab, there had been no need to be 'Mike' only to play 'Mike', and were that to come about - what would be your response?

Could you have a play with this?

best,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John

When you are 'Mike' do you have to also BE 'Mike'?

Let's say you are in the cab, in that wake place, and you get out to walk over to a cafe, and on the way, you see a friend, colleague, and in that blink, rather than 'fall into Mike', you stay in the wake place, and simply play 'Mike' perhaps watching the whole time...then when you got back in the cab, there had been no need to be 'Mike' only to play 'Mike', and were that to come about - what would be your response?

Could you have a play with this?

This is something that i am actively trying to achieve with varying success. If i meet someone momentarily then it isn't a problem, i can chat while still maintaining my presence. The bigger challange is when i first start my shift, i tend to spend between 1 to 3 hours waiting for my trailer to be loaded, this time is spent with the same people every night, we sit at a table talking and as i become engaged with the conversation i very quickly become 'Mike' without even noticing the change. It is only afterwards that i notice i let me concentration slip.

This isn't a huge problem as it is something that i am working on and i can feel my presence becoming stronger, but, as always i'm not comfortable with the opinions that i express, which are usually to impress or 'fit in'

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

This is something that i am actively trying to achieve with varying success. If i meet someone momentarily then it isn't a problem, i can chat while still maintaining my presence. The bigger challange is when i first start my shift, i tend to spend between 1 to 3 hours waiting for my trailer to be loaded, this time is spent with the same people every night, we sit at a table talking and as i become engaged with the conversation i very quickly become 'Mike' without even noticing the change. It is only afterwards that i notice i let me concentration slip.

This isn't a huge problem as it is something that i am working on and i can feel my presence becoming stronger, but, as always i'm not comfortable with the opinions that i express, which are usually to impress or 'fit in'

Mike, who would you be without having to be 'Mike' with people on the shift? What is there a fear of being or becoming?

Sit with this. Don't think about it, but ponder it. Let the question sit with you till a response shows up.

Thank you,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

I'm struggling with this question, but here goes,

Mike, who would you be without having to be 'Mike' with people on the shift?

I guess i would be me, or should i say i would 'still' be me, but without the identity that i have built around myself over the years.

What is there a fear of being or becoming?

I'm obviously coming at this from the wrong direction, but i think it would be more a fear of losing, that is losing my identity because without it i'm not sure what i would be, an empty shell?
Where do i end and my identity begin?, maybe identity is the wrong word, perhaps personality would be better, but the character traits that people identify me by seem to be the things, (rightly or wrongly) that i feel i need to shake off, what can i keep and what has to go, that is what i am struggling with.

Wow! sounds like i would be more comfortable on a psychologists couch,

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

Mike, who would you be without having to be 'Mike' with people on the shift?

I guess i would be me, or should i say i would 'still' be me, but without the identity that i have built around myself over the years.

What is there a fear of being or becoming?

I'm obviously coming at this from the wrong direction, but i think it would be more a fear of losing, that is losing my identity because without it i'm not sure what i would be, an empty shell?
Where do i end and my identity begin?, maybe identity is the wrong word, perhaps personality would be better, but the character traits that people identify me by seem to be the things, (rightly or wrongly) that i feel i need to shake off, what can i keep and what has to go, that is what i am struggling with.

This is excellent stuff, so you're going to have to give up the 'doing it wrong' story - very soon! ;) no wrong or right here, only honest and, at times, intense, exploring, looking, seeing - but very everyday.

Mike, to be frank, it is impossible to describe in a way that can be understood. Whilst there are similarities in each one that sees, there are also many differences in experience - so in that sense, your journey is unique.

The 'self' (that is - coming at the world as if you are 'Mike', or me as 'John') may want to shake off the skin of identity. But this becomes a moot point when you see directly and deeply that there is not, nor ever was, or will be, a real entity or being called Mike that represents who you are. That basic assumed foundation in the lives of most people is a lived fiction. Bluntly, wrong.

Needless to say, the implications of that are vast for you and me, never mind a whole population!

So the fear of losing self is good marker. You wouldn't feel that fear if losing self wasn't a possibility. It shows you're getting a strong sense of this landscape.

Our focus remains intent like a lighthouse searchlight on the space from which it feels is ME HQ - behind the eyes.

Have a look. Are you there, or is it a complete ruse?

Thank you,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

Our focus remains intent like a lighthouse searchlight on the space from which it feels is ME HQ - behind the eyes.

Have a look. Are you there, or is it a complete ruse?

I have taken my time with this as i don't want to rush my answer. I have been focusing hard on who is there, behind my eyes and the only thing that i can come up with is that there is no one there,

The way i see it, rightly or wrongly, and i must admit this is becoming confusing at times, not because i am unsure but because i seem to be discovering things that may be so obvious they feel wrong, but at the moment it is as if i am just an empty vessel and the more i concentrate on this the more i 'feel' the emptiness. As thoughts present themselves in my mind it seems that the way i respond and react to them is what will shape who or what 'i' am.
It is my reactions to thoughts that could lead me to act in a way that could cause me harm or bad feelings, so the way i see it is if i don't react to my thoughts but let them 'dissolve' then there will be less chance that they will lead onto other more damaging situations.

So maybe the way i respond to my thoughts as they arise is what 'Mike' is

Does this make any sense John, or is this the early stages of madness :D

Mike

[s-p-a-c-e]

Hi Mike,

Our focus remains intent like a lighthouse searchlight on the space from which it feels is ME HQ - behind the eyes.

Have a look. Are you there, or is it a complete ruse?

I have taken my time with this as i don't want to rush my answer. I have been focusing hard on who is there, behind my eyes and the only thing that i can come up with is that there is no one there,

Ok, cool. Now, you can say:

1. I had felt like I was in the head looking out.
2. But looking directly there, there doesn't seem to be anything different to looking inside the foot, or hand.

It's not like we're out to prove anything is or isn't the case - only to check it out to see if, when examined closely, it rings true, or not. As you say, when you look, its like: oh. :)

So, gone as Mike - how is it?

The way i see it, rightly or wrongly, and i must admit this is becoming confusing at times, not because i am unsure but because i seem to be discovering things that may be so obvious they feel wrong, but at the moment it is as if i am just an empty vessel and the more i concentrate on this the more i 'feel' the emptiness.

Mike, because this is a shift from the old way of experiencing the world, the contrast between them can be a little startling for a time - such as that sense of an empty vessel - and yet, does that sense of emptiness ring true compared to mike-in-the-head-looking-out?

As thoughts present themselves in my mind it seems that the way i respond and react to them is what will shape who or what 'i' am.

And is the old 'Mike' there to respond? Can a fiction respond? Can a thought act?

It is my reactions to thoughts that could lead me to act in a way that could cause me harm or bad feelings, so the way i see it is if i don't react to my thoughts but let them 'dissolve' then there will be less chance that they will lead onto other more damaging situations.

Take a 5 minute slot - and just watch like you're in the far upper balcony with them silly little theatre glasses :) and watch thoughts come, notice the duration, watch them go, watch any response, watch any act. Watch the show unfold. Share any discoveries.

So maybe the way i respond to my thoughts as they arise is what 'Mike' is

Does this make any sense John, or is this the early stages of madness :D

LOL :) Then we're all a bit barking Mike. :D

Check it out...

Best wishes,
John

[mike-b]

Hi John,

If i could go through a few points please,

So, gone as Mike - how is it?

This is starting to rest easy with me, i get it that there isn't and never was a 'Mike' or anyone else for that matter controlling what i do and say, but this is still very much on a conceptual level, no great epiphany!!

does that sense of emptiness ring true compared to mike-in-the-head-looking-out?

Very much so, although the emptiness i spoke of is maybe misleading, I'm trying to remain aware throughout the day, aware of my thoughts as well as my actions, I'm trying to be 'present in the moment' to recognise thoughts as they arise, so this emptiness is probably a 'mental stillness' if that makes sense, and the more i rest in this stillness the more invigorating it is.

And is the old 'Mike' there to respond? Can a fiction respond? Can a thought act?

No, of course not, i see that thoughts, however powerful or painful, are very fleeting and insubstantial

Take a 5 minute slot - and just watch like you're in the far upper balcony with them silly little theatre glasses :) and watch thoughts come, notice the duration, watch them go, watch any response, watch any act. Watch the show unfold. Share any discoveries.

I am trying very hard to catch my thoughts out, to see them unfold and take shape but must admit this is very hard, before i know it the thought has arisen without me realising, although they are much less frequent.

This is going to sound very silly, so please excuse me beforehand, but i feel i am on the verge of something, almost as if there is a power or an energy growing inside me.

I will keep watching and speak to you soon,

Mike