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[forgetmenot]

Hi Pietalinda,

I am a somewhat perplexed with your responses to the questions on the exercise given. The exercise was to silently observe thoughts for approximately 20-30 minutes. In silently observing thoughts, where does listening, speaking or mute speaking come into the exercise?

Before we can move on, I need to be very clear that you are very clear about thoughts and I’m not getting that from you....so I am setting another exercise for you to do.

PLEASE SIT QUIETLY FOR 30 MINUTES - TAKING THIS TIME TO DO THE EXERCISES THOROUGHLY - IN FULL AS PER INSTRUCTIONS.

Answer each question individually with some detail please.

1) Describe to yourself, in detail, the process by which you create a thought, or make a choice.
You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it.

So how do you do it?
How do you create a thought?
How do you think?

2) Think of a 2-digit number.

Why did you choose that number?
Why not the previous number, or the next one?
Do you know? If not, why don’t you know?
If you are the thinker of thoughts then you must know how you create them.

Do the exercise initially for 30 minutes AND THEN literally tens of dozens of times throughout the day in short sessions lasting just a few minutes. (Do the exercises in short lessons as many times as possible during the day).

Love Kay

[pietalinda]

Dear Kay,

I am a somewhat perplexed with your responses to the questions on the exercise given. The exercise was to silently observe thoughts for approximately 20-30 minutes. In silently observing thoughts, where does listening, speaking or mute speaking come into the exercise?

Oh, don't worry, I did the exercise right as being told for several times (sitting quiet 20-30min observing thoughts). I also answered the questions given.
Observing speaking and listening was another separate practice, an extra. It felt usefull in order to clear out some confusion i had about thinking (see here earlier comments of mine).

Aren't thoughts organised when having a conversation? Listening, understanding, thinking, thinking an answer, speaking? They don't just run loose then.
Some thoughts choose to be spoken, written or otherwise shared. The symbols are used to make that possible. Expressing is giving a form to a thought/s.

Perhaps I shouldn't have written about that at all to avoid misunderstanding.

1) Describe to yourself, in detail, the process by which you create a thought, or make a choice.
You have been doing it all your life apparently - so you must know exactly how you do it.

So how do you do it?

I don't do it.

How do you create a thought?

I do not create a thought.

How do you think?

I do not think.

2) Think of a 2-digit number.

Why did you choose that number?

I didn't, it got chosen randomly.

Why not the previous number, or the next one?

Yeah, why not!

Do you know? If not, why don’t you know?

I don't know because I don't do it, I don't choose.

Luv,
Pietalinda

[forgetmenot]

Hi Pietalinda,

I would like to clarify what AE of a thought is.

The thought “I am thinking a thought” is the AE of a thought and not AE of thinking.

The thought “I am typing this sentence” is the AE of a thought and not AE of typing.
(there is also the AE of sensation + images in this example, but we can go into that later on - I am only wanting to concentrate on thoughts at this stage)

Is this clear, can you see this?

No. Thoughts seem to cease momentarily when observing them and while listening or speaking, also when speaking "by myself " mute. So speaking is not a process where thoughts translate into words. No, speaking is speaking, thoughts are thoughts.

From my experience what is seemingly being thought is also spoken. When the thought ‘yellow’ appears as a response to a conversation, is that then not the word spoken? When I am speaking to someone and the thoughts appear, I am speaking those thoughts.

Aren't thoughts organised when having a conversation? Listening, understanding, thinking, thinking an answer, speaking? They don't just run loose then. Some thoughts choose to be spoken, written or otherwise shared. The symbols are used to make that possible. Expressing is giving a form to a thought/s.

Perhaps I shouldn't have written about that at all to avoid misunderstanding.

There are no intellectually right answers, and there are no prizes given for having what is thought to be the ‘correct answers’. Questions given are pointers to you looking to ‘see’ that there is no separate individual entity. Intellectually correct answers do not help you ‘see’ that there is no separate individual that is thinking, choosing, doing or controlling. You either want to have the experience of ‘seeing’ this or you want to play mind games and go around in circles.

At the beginning of the guiding I asked you for honesty and that is what I believe the above response was. If you are going to withhold answers just in case it ‘drags’ this out, then this will hinder and even lengthen the guiding process. Fear, (although it may be subtle) would like this process to be over and done with - to just reach the goal of being ‘confirmed’ so as to move on and not feel threatened. There is no ‘goal’ - you either ‘see’ that there is no separate entity or you just believe there isn’t and there is a big difference between the two.

Since you have now completed two exercises, you should be able to look and now give me the answers to the following questions:

- What exactly in AE is listening?
- What exactly in AE is understanding?
- How is it exactly known that an answer is being thought?
- What exactly organises thoughts when having a conversation?
- How are some thoughts chosen to be spoken?
- What chooses thoughts that are spoken?
- What chooses thoughts that are NOT spoken?
- What chooses thoughts that are written?
- What chooses what thoughts are NOT written?
- What is AE of a symbol?
- How does expressing give form to a thought/s?

I would like you to answer these questions individually and with more detail than just ‘no’, ‘yes’ etc. Giving short answers so as not to create misunderstanding, or so as not to illicit more questions from me does not help our process, and as I said above..... if anything, lengthens it.

Love Kay

[pietalinda]

What means AE?

[forgetmenot]

Hi Pietalinda,

AE (actual experience) is the same as DE (direct experience) - my apologies for not defining the acronym. AE and DE are interchangeable and mean exactly the same thing, and refer to the actual/direct experience of thought, images, sounds, tastes, smells and sensations. AE/DE is what is happening 'now', right in this moment NOW.

So the actual experience (AE) of a thought:

The thought “I am thinking a thought” is the AE (actual experience) of a thought and not AE (actual experience) of thinking.

The thought “I am typing this sentence” is the AE (actual experience) of a thought and not AE (actual experience) of typing.
(there is also the AE of sensation + images in this example, but we can go into that later on - I am only wanting to concentrate on thoughts at this stage)

Here is the link again, just in case you missed it on the introductory post, the article on Direct Experience (Actual experience)

http://liberationunleashed.com/articles ... xperience/

Love Kay

[pietalinda]

Dear Kay,

What exactly in AE is listening?

Hearing happens all the time, listening is hearing with awareness.

What exactly in AE is understanding?

New experiences reflecting on the collection of anterior ones and finding a match.

How is it exactly known that an answer is being thought?

It just happens. The bustling and rustling of thoughts around the answer cease when it is completed.

What exactly organises thoughts when having a conversation?

Nothing organises them. Thoughts are hungry. They are in a constant search for food, stimulation and incentive.
Conversation is a buffet for thoughts and as long as it is tempting enough they stay around it.

How are some thoughts chosen to be spoken?

There seem to be filters consisting of previous experiencies. The thoughts that pass these filters are to be spoken.

What chooses thoughts that are spoken?

Nothing, they just pass the filters.

What chooses thoughts that are NOT spoken?

Nothing, they just don't pass the filters.

What chooses thoughts that are written?

Nothing. They again pass the filters.

What chooses what thoughts are NOT written?

Nothing. They again don't get through the filters.

What is AE of a symbol?

Similar to understanding. A symbol reflecting on the collection of earlier ones and finding a match in experience.

How does expressing give form to a thought/s?

Or thought give form to expression. Very similar to understanding again. A thought reflecting on the collection of earlier learned symbols/expressions and finding a match.

Sunshine,
Pietalinda

[forgetmenot]

Hello Pietalinda,

I am once again going to repeat what the actual experience (AE) of a thought is. Then I would like you to answer me if it is clear to you. If you are unable to see what the actual experience (AE) of a thought is...then you won’t get any of this, and we might as well stop now.

The thought “I am thinking a thought” is the actual experience (AE) of a thought and NOT the actual experience (AE) of thinking.

The actual experience (AE) of the thought “I am thinking a thought”, whether it just be a thought that arises as a thought, or is a written sentence or is spoken to another or spoken to yourself (mute) - is the actual experience of a THOUGHT and NOT the actual experience of THINKING.

IS THIS CLEAR, CAN YOU SEE THIS?

If this is NOT CLEAR to you....please say so, so we can work on this and get you to see what the actual experience (AE) of a thought is.

The responses you gave my questions were fantasy, they were stories and not from a place of looking.

Kay: What exactly in AE is listening?

Pietalinda: Hearing happens all the time, listening is hearing with awareness.

This reply is NOT coming from looking.
This is just a thought story.

So, what EXACTLY in ACTUAL EXPERIENCE is listening?
(please no stories, report ONLY from actual experience)

Kay: What exactly in AE is understanding?

Pietalinda: New experiences reflecting on the collection of anterior ones and finding a match.

Again, this reply is NOT the description of actual experience.
It's a thought story.

Kay: How is it exactly known that an answer is being thought?

Pietalinda: It just happens. The bustling and rustling of thoughts around the answer cease when it is completed.

What??? What a story!

Is it clear for you that this conversation is NOT about theories, assumptions or ideas?

Is it clear that ALL the questions should be answered ONLY from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE?

Is it clear what actual experience is?
Please describe it clearly. NO more stories, please.

Kay: What exactly organises thoughts when having a conversation?

Pietalinda: Nothing organises them. Thoughts are hungry. They are in a constant search for food, stimulation and incentive. Conversation is a buffet for thoughts and as long as it is tempting enough they stay around it.

Hungry??? What?

Pietalinda, this conversation is NOT about fantasies, theories, ideas or figuring out how to give intellectual replies (thought stories)

These questions are for LOOKING! Are you up for that?

Are you willing to put aside all theories and answering clearly ONLY from actual experience?

Kay: What is AE of a symbol?

Pietalinda: Similar to understanding. A symbol reflecting on the collection of earlier ones and finding a match in experience.

This is an intellectual answer. LOOKING IS COMPLETELY MISSED!

This reply is NOT the actual experience of a 'symbol', but the actual experience of THOUGHT.
Can you see this?

Are you willing to look?

Please answer and respond to ALL questions asked.

Love Kay

[pietalinda]

Hello dear Kay,

I am really doing my best, taking a lot of time sitting quiet, observing, looking and trying to see. It is just all new for me and there seem to be a lot that I don´t understand yet I thought I did.

Now, it is like if somebody does not speak finnish no matter how loud I speak, how much red color or capital letters or

If you are unable to see what the actual experience (AE) of a thought is...then you won’t get any of this, and we might as well stop now

I use, this person will not uderstand me. So, I then have to find another way to make my point, no?
Perhaps there is a way to make me to understand all you are saying here too?

The actual experience (AE) of the thought “I am thinking a thought”, whether it just be a thought that arises as a thought, or is a written sentence or is spoken to another or spoken to yourself (mute) - is the actual
experience of a THOUGHT and NOT the actual experience of THINKING.
IS THIS CLEAR, CAN YOU SEE THIS?

Yes, I see this -at least I think so.

So, what EXACTLY in ACTUAL EXPERIENCE is listening?

I can not experience listening, just the thought about it. I can only experience hearing (mostly in my ears).

What exactly in AE is understanding?

I can´t experience understanding, just the thought about it.

How is it exactly known that an answer is being thought?

I don´t know, it does not cause any body sensations. I can only experience a thought about it.

Is it clear for you that this conversation is NOT about theories, assumptions or ideas?

Yes.

Is it clear that ALL the questions should be answered ONLY from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE?

Yes.

Is it clear what actual experience is? Please describe it clearly. NO more stories, please.

Actual experience is a thought or bodily sensation happening and being noticed right now.

What exactly organises thoughts when having a conversation?

I cannot experience that, I can only notice thoughts about it.

These questions are for LOOKING! Are you up for that?

Yes.

Are you willing to put aside all theories and answering clearly ONLY from actual experience?

Yes. I haven´t been trying to come up with theories.

What is AE of a symbol?

Can not experience a symbol, only a thought about it.

This reply is NOT the actual experience of a

'symbol', but the actual experience of

THOUGHT.
Can you see this?

Yes.

Are you willing to look?

Yes.

Please answer and respond to ALL questions asked.

Yes. I have been trying to. I´m sorry if there has accidentally been some left unattended.

LOVE!
Pietalinda

[forgetmenot]

Hello Pietalinda,

Firstly, my role as a guide is to get you to ‘see’ that there is no separate entity and that there is no separate entity that is ‘doing’, ‘controlling’, thinking or choosing. That is why you registered with LU - to ‘see’ through the concept of a separate entity/individual.

My firmness is to get your attention, to get you focussed so as to get you to look and ‘see’. If you do not understand what looking means, please tell me so we can address this.

Red letters and capital letters are to make sure that text is seen and read and not just glanced at.

If you are unable to see what the actual experience (AE) of a thought is...then you won’t get any of this, and we might as well stop now

I use, this person will not uderstand me. So, I then have to find another way to make my point, no?
Perhaps there is a way to make me to understand all you are saying here too?

No, it is not a threat, it’s not pointing to anything personal about you or to you - the fact of the matter is, that if you are unable to see what the actual experience of a thought is, then I can’t help you....fullstop...and so the process stops.

Actual experience does NOT only refer to thoughts, but also sensations, images, sound, taste and smell. But I am only interested in AE of thought at this point in time.

The actual experience (AE) of the thought “I am thinking a thought”, whether it just be a thought that arises as a thought, or is a written sentence or is spoken to another or spoken to yourself (mute) - is the actual
experience of a THOUGHT and NOT the actual experience of THINKING.
IS THIS CLEAR, CAN YOU SEE THIS?

Yes, I see this -at least I think so.

Okay so let’s see if you see this.

The AE of thought “I am thinking a thought”. These literal words, “I” “am” “thinking” “a” “thought”, whether they are spoken, written or just self talk are the actual experience (AE) of thought.

The content of the thought, “I am thinking a thought” - what the thought is about - is NOT AE.

In other words, the thought “I am thinking a thought” seems to point to a ‘person’, a separate entity that is thinking.

The label ‘thinking’ (which is AE) seems to point to answers being found, shopping lists being made, calculations being done and thoughts being ordered - this is pure story (content) and is NOT the actual experience (AE) of a thought.

IS THIS CLEAR?

Please answer the following questions individually and in as much detail as possible so that I know that you are clear and understand what I have written above about actual experience (AE) of a thought is and what content of a thought is (what the thought is about) and how they are two different concepts. One refers to actual experience (AE) the other refers to stories.

If you were to have the thought:

“It is raining”

What is the AE of this thought?

What is this thought pointing to, what is it about (content/story)?

Love Kay

[pietalinda]

Dear Kay,

IS THIS CLEAR?

Yes.

If you were to have the thought:
“It is raining”
What is the AE of this thought?

There is a thought / I am thinking a thought. It is the experience of a thought.

What is this thought pointing to, what is it about (content/story)?

It is about raining.

Love,
Pietalinda

[forgetmenot]

Hi Pietalinda,

If you were to have the thought:
“It is raining”
What is the AE of this thought?

There is a thought / I am thinking a thought. It is the experience of a thought.

Can you please type the exact sentence/thought which is the actual experience of a the thought in the example above.

What is this thought pointing to, what is it about (content/story)?

It is about raining.

Yes

Love Kay

[pietalinda]

Dear Kay,

If you were to have the thought:
“It is raining”
What is the AE of this thought?

Pietalinda: There is a thought / I am thinking a thought. It is the experience of a thought.

Can you please type the exact sentence/thought which is the actual experience of a the thought in the example above.

I'm thinking that it is raining / there is a thought about rain.

[forgetmenot]

Hello Pietalinda,

If you were to have the thought:
“It is raining”
What is the AE of this thought?

There is a thought / I am thinking a thought. It is the experience of a thought.

"What is it EXACTLY that is having this thought?"

Where is this separate individual that is thinking?

What exactly is thinking?

Can you please type the exact sentence/thought which is the actual experience of a the thought in the example above.

I'm thinking that it is raining / there is a thought about rain.

“It is raining” is the response/answer I was looking for (exactly as I have written it) as it is actual experience of thought.

What “rain” seemingly is, for example, water falling from the sky is not AE of thought but IS THE STORY ABOUT THE THOUGHT/LABEL “RAIN”.

What “rain” seemingly does, for example, wets the grass, wets the dog, creates floods and so on, IS THE STORY ABOUT “RAIN”, but is NOT actual experience of the label/thought “rain”

CAN YOU SEE THIS? IS THIS CLEAR?

I'm thinking that it is raining / there is a thought about rain.

"What is it EXACTLY that is having this thought?"

Where is this separate individual that is thinking?

What exactly is thinking?

What is the AE of rain?

Please give me your own example of a thought and what the AE of that thought is.

Please answer all questions individually.

Love Kay

[pietalinda]

Good morning Kay,
Yet in Australia it already seems to be afternoon.

Pietalinda: There is a thought / I am thinking a thought. It is the experience of a thought.
"What is it EXACTLY that is having this thought?"

Nothing, it is a thought. It seems to appear without control and disappear the same way.

Where is this separate individual that is thinking?

Nowhere. There is no separate individual neither thinking nor doing anything else.

What exactly is thinking?

Nothing is doing the thinking, there are just thoughts coming and going.
The body can't experience thinking. There are only thoughts about it.

What “rain” seemingly does, for example, wets the grass, wets the dog, creates floods and so on, IS THE STORY ABOUT “RAIN”, but is NOT actual experience of the label/thought “rain”.
CAN YOU SEE THIS? IS THIS CLEAR?

Yes.

Pietalinda: I'm thinking that it is raining / there is a thought about rain.
"What is it EXACTLY that is having this thought?"

Nothing. It's a thought without an owner as all the thoughts.

Where is this separate individual that is thinking?

It does not exist in reality. It is only a story in the thought.

What exactly is thinking?

Nothing is doing the thinking, there are just thoughts coming and going.
The body can't experience thinking. There are only thoughts about it.

What is the AE of rain?

It can be feeling on the skin, hearing, seeing or even smelling the rain.

Please give me your own example of a thought and what the AE of that thought is.

Where all the thoughts dissapear right now when I could use one here?
The AE of that thought is "Where all the thoughts dissapear right now when I could use one here. "
Luv,
Pietalinda

[forgetmenot]

Hello Pietalinda....and a wonderful good morning to you! :)

Terrific looking! 

What is the AE of rain?

It can be feeling on the skin, hearing, seeing or even smelling the rain.

“It can be feeling on the skin” is the AE of 'thought'. The thoughts about rain - the ‘feeling’ on the skin (sensation), the ‘hearing’, ‘seeing’ and ‘smelling’ of ‘RAIN’ is content/story.

What exactly is thinking?

Nothing is doing the thinking, there are just thoughts coming and going.
The body can't experience thinking. There are only thoughts about it.

Yes!

The body can’t experience thinking because the body does not know anything about thoughts.

Just like thoughts know nothing about thoughts.

Can a thought know about a thought?
Can the thought “I am thinking” know about thinking?
Can the thought “It is raining” know anything about rain?
Can the thought “Where do all thoughts disappear now” know anything about disappearing thoughts?

Please give me your own example of a thought and what the AE of that thought is.

Where all the thoughts dissapear right now when I could use one here?
The AE of that thought is "Where all the thoughts dissapear right now when I could use one here. "

YES! Wonderful! (and I liked the irony of your example!) ;)

Every thought, WITHOUT EXCEPTION is the AE of thought and NOT what the thought is about (content/story/meaning).

Where is the separate entity that “could use a thought”?

Once you have answered these questions and you are very clear within yourself, that you are clear and I think you are very clear what the actual experience (AE) of thought is, we will move on.

Love Kay