Requesting an OM Triratna guide

[Dianne]

There is not 'feeler' or 'sensor' having a physical sensation.

Kusalamani

[Dava]

Staying with the Direct Experience of physical sensations.

I want you to close your eyes and range over your physical experience again.

Tell me what you find when you look for a boundary to this physical experience?

Does the physical experience have a shape, a size, a weight?

Can you find something called "the body" in Direct Experience?

[Dianne]

Hi Dava

Boy these questions have kept me looking all day!

Tell me what you find when you look for a boundary to this physical experience?

Initally I thought the body was the boundary to the physical experience, and if I keep looking it doesn't seem to be because I can't experience an edge to it.

Does the physical experience have a shape, a size, a weight?

some aspects of the physical experience appear to have a weight eg. sensations of my buttocks on the chair are heavy, or feet on floor heavy. Initally some physical sensations are experienced as having a shape,e.g. pain in the knee, but again on looking more closely this dissolves, so shape is probably an idea.

Can you find something called "the body" in Direct Experience?

I can't find something called "the body" in my direct experience, and even saying that an argument is forming "I can see a body when I look in the mirror, so I must have one".

Warm wishes
Kusalamani

[Dianne]

Just realised as I posted the last one, that there is a difference in being able to see an image of the body and directly experiencing it - so no i can't find something called "the body" in Direct Experience.
KM

[Dava]

Great stuff, I'm pleased to see that this exploration is engaging your interest and keeping you looking.

You may have noticed that this doesn't have to be a particularly deep exploration requiring heaps of focus or concentration, we just simply look at our experience with a sense of curiosity, and see what is there.

Lets have another look then.

This time, I want you to attend to the experience of seeing.
Look around the room, taking in the experience of seeing, and if you like, let your attention rest somewhere in this experience. All the while, looking for a "seer" responsible for this seeing.

What do you find?

Best wishes,
Dave

[Dianne]

Thank you for the advice of this not having to be a deep exploration - it is helpful and more relaxing

What I find in attending to the experience of seeing is colours, shapes, objects. When I rest my attention somewhere in this experience, it does feel as though there is a "seer" inside looking out and responsible for the seeing.

KM

[Dava]

When I rest my attention somewhere in this experience, it does feel as though there is a "seer" inside looking out and responsible for the seeing.

Where in Direct Experience does the feeling of a "seer" arise?

What is it made of?

[Dianne]

If I stay with my primary experience of seeing, I realise that seeing just arises in the sense of sight. The feeling of a "seer" is an interpretation. This interpretation must be faulty though I'm not convinced that it is.

KM

[Dava]

I realise that seeing just arises in the sense of sight

Do you have the experience of seeing arising inthe sense of sight?

This interpretation must be faulty though I'm not convinced that it is.

Where does the lack of conviction arise in Direct Experience?

[Dianne]

Do you have the experience of seeing arising inthe sense of sight?

When I re-read this statement I realise that I don't have the experience of seeing arising in anything. There is no 'sense' of sight there is only seeing

Where does the lack of conviction arise in Direct Experience?

Again the lack of conviction doesn't arise in Direct Experience. This is a thought, an idea which means it is secondary experience.
What happens when I write this is the experience of 'fear' again - and we know that fear is also a thought, an idea. So what arises in Direct Experience are physical sensations.

KM

[Dava]

Spot on!

As the Buddha said to Bahiya'
"In the seen just the seen..."

So then, let your attention rest in the experience of hearing, just letting the experience of sounds do its thing.

Tell me about the experience of hearing.

When I ask you to look for a "hearer" who hears, what do you find?

[Dianne]

Tell me about the experience of hearing.

My experience of hearing is sometimes just hearing e.g. as I listened to birds singing, there was just sound and what I noticed very quickly, almost with 'just hearing' was naming the bird, and an image of the bird arising in the mind.
I also had a difficult conversation with someone today - the just hearing of that took only about 10 minutes, with an ongoing residue of physical sensations and thoughts lasting most of the day.

When I ask you to look for a "hearer" who hears, what do you find?

I cannot find a 'hearer' who hears, I can find a 'thinker' who thinks and imagines.

KM

[Dava]

I cannot find a 'hearer' who hears, I can find a 'thinker' who thinks and imagines.

Tell me a bit more about the experience of thinking.

Go to the thought that is happening now.

What do you find?

Did it come from somewhere?

Did it go somewhere?

Does it reside somewhere once arisen?

What is thinking in Direct Experience?

[Dianne]

Go to the thought that is happening now. What did you find

The thought is happening in the form of words appearing in the brain

Did it come from somewhere?

No it arose in association with something I was looking at

Did it go somewhere?

No it just stopped when another thought arose

Does it reside somewhere once arisen?

No it doesn't reside anywhere, but does leave an imprint on the brain so that when the association that triggered the thought is triggered again, a similar thought may arise.

What is thinking in Direct Experience?

It is a mental event

[Dava]

No it doesn't reside anywhere, but does leave an imprint on the brain so that when the association that triggered the thought is triggered again, a similar thought may arise.

In Direct Experience, when thinking is observed, is a brain also observed, complete with "imprints"?

Take another look.
Just watching the process of thinking.
Tell me what you see actually happening.

What happens when you look for this thought that is happening now?