Would love a guide!

[SimonStark]

There are different types of thoughts. Some just appear. I don't think I'm to blame when I think I shouldn't think, but I've never had that so I couldn't say.

Other thoughts are deliberate. Like when I'm composing music. I do it very visually. I see the various instruments as different colors and shape. And it's in 3-D. Often I end up walking around in my room, seeing all these elements. Move them around. Make some bigger, some smaller. Do a lot of things with them. And I change the way they sound. And when it's done, or I take a break, I mentally file it away so I can pull it up later. And maybe take a bird's eye view of all the files and their contents to see if I can use some of them together, etc. It's just my process for creating music.

I can't say that most of that just happens. It's very deliberate and controlled by me.

[Armstrong]

Ok. Thanks very much for your informative and precise answer. That is helpful, so I am grateful and optimistic we can get this done quickly.

I will dig up the terms and conditions for you and we'll get started.

[Armstrong]

My role here is to lead you through some direct pointing exercises. Hopefully all I'll do is ask questions. You'll see whatever you see. Some conditions:

1) please confirm that you've read the disclaimer located here http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/ and that you are OK having me be your guide.

2) say which of these doesn't work for you:

You agree to post at least once a day. If you are busy, just a "still here" let's us know you are still there. If you post more than once a day, I'll try to reply so that we can get this done more efficiently.

You'll answer questions honestly, based on your senses, not your thinking. This is the most important - think of the questions about your experience of your nose; it will be like that, over and over.

Please avoid personal details in your responses. I won't ask personal questions.

Let's try to keep things short, eschewing long answers, analytical answers, wordy answers. If you're giving one of those, you probably aren't answering in terms of your direct sensory experience.

If things are ambiguous or I'm curious, I'll ask more questions.

You agree to put aside your nonduality teachings, meditation teaching and philosophies until we finish - eg videos, articles and books. If you have a daily meditation practice, you are welcome to keep doing that.

Please look at this and use the quote function. It will make it easier on me and the other guides: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

3) if you have any requests, please let me know

[SimonStark]

Ok. Thanks very much for your informative and precise answer. That is helpful, so I am grateful and optimistic we can get this done quickly.

That is good news. :)

[SimonStark]

1) Read the disclaimer and I am grateful for you being my guide.

2) They all work for me.

3) Will do, have none at this point.

My role here is to lead you through some direct pointing exercises. Hopefully all I'll do is ask questions. You'll see whatever you see. Some conditions:

1) please confirm that you've read the disclaimer located here http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/ and that you are OK having me be your guide.

2) say which of these doesn't work for you:

You agree to post at least once a day. If you are busy, just a "still here" let's us know you are still there. If you post more than once a day, I'll try to reply so that we can get this done more efficiently.

You'll answer questions honestly, based on your senses, not your thinking. This is the most important - think of the questions about your experience of your nose; it will be like that, over and over.

Please avoid personal details in your responses. I won't ask personal questions.

Let's try to keep things short, eschewing long answers, analytical answers, wordy answers. If you're giving one of those, you probably aren't answering in terms of your direct sensory experience.

If things are ambiguous or I'm curious, I'll ask more questions.

You agree to put aside your nonduality teachings, meditation teaching and philosophies until we finish - eg videos, articles and books. If you have a daily meditation practice, you are welcome to keep doing that.

Please look at this and use the quote function. It will make it easier on me and the other guides: http://liberationunleashed.com/nation/v ... ?f=4&t=660

3) if you have any requests, please let me know

[Armstrong]

OK. It would be nice if you could explain what your expectations are.

Earlier you wrote,

What brings me to LU? A burning desire to be liberated.

- so could you please elaborate further? Normally people want something a lot because they think it will make them better off.

Eg right now, I want to eat some ice cream because I believe that the sugar, cream and coldness will really improve things. I'm going to be thrilled to taste it, enjoy the novelty of whatever flavor I eat, etc. That is, I'm going to feel better - I feel a bit tense and uncomfortable right now and I keep having thoughts about frozen dessert.

So right now, what are you imagining you'll get out of this? Could you explain your thoughts and feelings? I'm curious what you want.

Thanks.

[SimonStark]

Well, the burning desire comes from the fact that I truly have no idea what to expect. It is a mystery. It is an unknown. I mean, I'm fine as I am, but if it can make life better, ok. If it doesn't, ok. If it makes it worse, even then, ok. I want to know what it is out of curiosity and the desire to know what is actually true instead of living in an illusion.

For example, if I had two options. The first is living in a fantasy that is wonderful but also an illusion with no basis in reality. The second is living a hard life but a real life, where I know what is real and true. I would choose the second.

I just find it important to know what is true. What is real. What is fact. There is a very scientific part of me. And a mathematical part. I'm not into fairy-tales when it comes to life, I'm into what is actually true.

Which is also where my response of finding other places regarding this topic too airy-fairy comes from.

OK. It would be nice if you could explain what your expectations are.

Earlier you wrote,

What brings me to LU? A burning desire to be liberated.

- so could you please elaborate further? Normally people want something a lot because they think it will make them better off.

Eg right now, I want to eat some ice cream because I believe that the sugar, cream and coldness will really improve things. I'm going to be thrilled to taste it, enjoy the novelty of whatever flavor I eat, etc. That is, I'm going to feel better - I feel a bit tense and uncomfortable right now and I keep having thoughts about frozen dessert.

So right now, what are you imagining you'll get out of this? Could you explain your thoughts and feelings? I'm curious what you want.

Thanks.

[Armstrong]

OK. Thanks for your clear response.

Reading what you wrote, you say you want to know what is true. I invite you to read the questions and look at your own experience, right now, to answer. If you just tell me what you think, that doesn't count as an answer. In fact, if you look at the conditions you agreed to, you've promised to tell the truth based on your actual experience.

Again, you said you want to know what is true, and that you are curious. Let's say that counts as a desire (to know stuff), and a belief about yourself.

Honestly - if you reflect on what you wrote above, do you feel good because you think something along the lines of "I am a curious and honest person, willing to fearlessly face the truth, no matter where it leads. And I'm not irrational and airy-fairy - unlike everyone else, I'm rational and care about what is true..." ? That is, do you think that and feel good when you have that sort of thought?

When you answer questions, where does the answer come from? There was a moment when you were just contemplating a question. And then somehow you typed out an answer. What is your experience (in terms of your senses) when you answer a question? Eg. someone asks, "do you own a pet dog?" or "what is the last movie you saw?" or "why do you want to explore your sense of self" do you do anything to create the answer? What is this "you" like that answers questions about yourself? Does it have a location, color, size, boundary, etc?

Feel free to take your time with the questions. It might help you if you review this audio to see what sort of answers count as responsive, and which answers would be unresponsive: http://liberationunleashed.com/LU_Audio ... n%2004.mp3



Do you choose to want to know what is true? That is, do you choose your desires?
Do you feel better about yourself because you want to know what is true? Do you feel

[SimonStark]

OK. Thanks for your clear response.

Reading what you wrote, you say you want to know what is true. I invite you to read the questions and look at your own experience, right now, to answer. If you just tell me what you think, that doesn't count as an answer. In fact, if you look at the conditions you agreed to, you've promised to tell the truth based on your actual experience.

Again, you said you want to know what is true, and that you are curious. Let's say that counts as a desire (to know stuff), and a belief about yourself.

Honestly - if you reflect on what you wrote above, do you feel good because you think something along the lines of "I am a curious and honest person, willing to fearlessly face the truth, no matter where it leads. And I'm not irrational and airy-fairy - unlike everyone else, I'm rational and care about what is true..." ? That is, do you think that and feel good when you have that sort of thought?

I feel good about the part that says "I am a curious and honest person, willing to fearlessly face the truth, no matter where it leads." Not about "And I'm not irrational and airy-fairy - unlike everyone else, I'm rational and care about what is true..." That's because it has a negative perception of everyone else in it. Like I'm somehow better. I'm not. And I love people and respect their opinions and the way they are. THAT, again though, I do feel good about.

When you answer questions, where does the answer come from? There was a moment when you were just contemplating a question. And then somehow you typed out an answer. What is your experience (in terms of your senses) when you answer a question? Eg. someone asks, "do you own a pet dog?" or "what is the last movie you saw?" or "why do you want to explore your sense of self" do you do anything to create the answer? What is this "you" like that answers questions about yourself? Does it have a location, color, size, boundary, etc?

The answer seems to come out of nowhere. After reading the question I had an immediate response to it, it was a thought and a feeling. Then I needed to think about how to formulate my answer and then I typed out that answer. In terms of my senses, I saw the letters on the screen and feel my fingertips on the keyboard as I'm typing.

I'm not sure what this "you" is, I can't identify it as a single thing. It's a combination of feelings, thoughts, awareness, etc. Which together create my identity. If I look at what is going on with my regarding my feelings, thoughts, beliefs, etc., that combination is what I can see as "me". Not my body though. If the body dies, the identity dies (which is what I believe), or if I'm wrong, it lives on but not in the same body. So the identity being me, owns the body.

Feel free to take your time with the questions. It might help you if you review this audio to see what sort of answers count as responsive, and which answers would be unresponsive: http://liberationunleashed.com/LU_Audio ... n%2004.mp3

I'll listen to that one again soon.

Do you choose to want to know what is true? That is, do you choose your desires?
Do you feel better about yourself because you want to know what is true? Do you feel

As I see it, I (the identity) chooses to want to know what is true. And some desires I choose, some just come up. I do feel better about myself because I want to know what is true, since I see it as a good trait and I'm proud of it. And yes, I feel. The identity/"me" has those feelings.

[Armstrong]

The answer seems to come out of nowhere. After reading the question I had an immediate response to it, it was a thought and a feeling. Then I needed to think about how to formulate my answer and then I typed out that answer. In terms of my senses, I saw the letters on the screen and feel my fingertips on the keyboard as I'm typing.

That sounds like a reasonable description in terms of your direct experience. I suggest that as you answer this post you try to find the "I" that is answering and typing.

You also wrote:

As I see it, I (the identity) chooses to want to know what is true.

That's quite conceptual; I can't help you with that answer. Could you please try to pretend I'm a 7-year old kid and talk to me in terms of your direct experience? I don't understand what this I is or what the experience is like when it chooses. Is the "I" you? If so, you ought to be able to describe how you choose things, because you are the one doing it.

What is "the identity"? Is it a thing? Or is it just some thoughts that you've had. Can you point to it with your hand, the way you can point to the floor?

About feeling proud - do you control how proud you feel, or when you feel proud? Do you control what you feel from moment to moment?

And yes, I feel. The identity/"me" has those feelings.

Can you please pretend I'm 7-years old and explain what that is like? I don't understand what an identity is or how it has feelings. You are making it sound like you - the thing that understands these words now - are different than your identity. Because you "have" an identity. Are you the same or different? What is this identity?

[SimonStark]

You got me, I can't explain it. And I can't find the I, but it feels like I am here and my hands, for example, belong to me. So even though i can't find an I, I'm not sure there isn't one. Or at the very least, it feels and seems like there is one. I exist, don't I?

[Armstrong]

Well, if you are curious and pay attention, you ought to be able to get this quickly.

Something to notice - from moment to moment, you seem to be you. But in any moment you look, you can't seem to find a separate you, running your life.

So how do you know who you are, moment by moment? How do you know you aren't me, or your identical twin brother? Or a machine with implanted memories? That's somehing to pay attention to steadily. Please go through your day and give some attention to that question, constantly.

Please try to come back wih an answer as to how you know who you are moment by moment.

[SimonStark]

It's true that I can't find a separate me that is running my life. That makes less and less sense to me. But there is something making choices. It feels like that at least. Otherwise everyone would just do random things and the world would be total madness.

I don't see a me, but my fingers, for example, I do see as my fingers.

As for the question how I know who I am, moment by moment, I can't answer that. I just do is the only answer I can give you. I know who and what I am and I just know that. That's not based on any reasoning.

[Armstrong]

Ok. I hope you are curious about this stuff. If curiosity motivates you to pay attention, it helps the process.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd to you that you've been doing things (living your life), but you've not noticed this stuff enough to answer some simple questions?

How about you listen to this and then make a point of seeing if your mind works in the same way - or does it perhaps work in a different way. And then tell me what you notice, in terms of your direct experience: http://liberationunleashed.com/LU_Audio ... n%2005.mp3

[SimonStark]

I haven't had the time to listen to the audio. Busy day. I'll get back to you tomorrow,