The Gate

Take a piece of fruit- put in front of you on the table. Now close your eyes and imagine the fruit, the colour, the size shape, and the taste when you bite it. really go to town on that.
Now open your eyes and experience the fruit. Pick it up and bite and taste it.

Tell me what you notice about imagination vs experience.

The experience of imagining was a lot calmer and more vague. The taste of the fruit and the sensation of chewing were distinctly less in the imagination as compared to really doing it. The feeling of the movement of my jaw was only there in ‘real life’ when I actually bit the fruit.

Okay…honestly….feels like experiencer. Not owner, but experiencer. The body. Moving around from experience to experience.

Ok, thank you for the honesty here. Let's look closer and keep giving me the first gut response, even if it doesn't 'fit' with the no-self stuff.

What came was talking about movies and basically how ‘I’ disappear and I would have to say that there’s no experiencer with watching a movie in my experience. For lack of a better way to say it, I become one with the movie. In observing socializing lately, there’s just what’s happening. It’s just there. So what is this watching? There seems to be a capacity to watch without being totally immersed in something…sometimes that happens and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s like watching a story unfold. Watching the body talk. Unless there’s ‘disappearing’ into whatever is happening…like I said with movies and sometimes other things.

Is there an experiencer i.e a 'hearer' of the music?
Is there in experience 2 distinct things going on, the experience (sounds) and something separate to those sounds hearing that?

No. There’s just music. I don’t know of any other way to explain that. There’s no separation. How can there be? There’s no dividing line. There’s no place the hearing stops and the music starts.
But it still feels like there’s a ‘hearer’ and a ‘thing heard’.

Where and what is the I they are referring to in their thoughts? Just the same as the thoughts about Lury? any difference?

So my cousin and mom are expressing ideas that are just ideas. I get that. The ideas appear real to cousin and mom. So it’s just nothing. Just expression. There’s still suffering though. Imagined suffering that feels real.

Indeed. What are those thoughts even referring to? :)

What can they possibly be referring to? Just nothing really. Okay wait…if I’m talking and I say ‘I got up and went to the kitchen’, that describes some action that the body took in a way someone else can understand, correct? If I say ‘I’m feeling sad and blue’, that isn’t true. What’s sadness? What’s blue? What’s ‘I’? The ‘I got up and went to the kitchen.’ Describes something that happened in real time even if the language doesn’t describe anything because what’s a ‘kitchen’, etc? But it’s useful in that context. That’s how it appears to me…not to say I wouldn’t say ‘I’m feeling sad…or maybe now I wouldn’t. Who knows?? ;-)

The experience of imagining was a lot calmer and more vague. The taste of the fruit and the sensation of chewing were distinctly less in the imagination as compared to really doing it. The feeling of the movement of my jaw was only there in ‘real life’ when I actually bit the fruit.

ok now do this exercise in exactly the same way-

Sit with eyes closed and imagine 'Lury' in as much detail as possible. Describe what happens, what images and words appear in detail.
Then when you are happy with that open the eyes and describe the actual experience of 'Lury' as it is appearing now. Just like any differences between the imaginary apple and the experience of 'apple'.

There seems to be a capacity to watch without being totally immersed in something…sometimes that happens and sometimes it doesn’t. It’s like watching a story unfold. Watching the body talk. Unless there’s ‘disappearing’ into whatever is happening…like I said with movies and sometimes other things.

Ok so this sounds less like an 'experiencer' and more of an 'observer' ?

Take a look for this observer then.
Does it have a location?
A size?
A shape?
Any characteristics you can describe to me.

No. There’s just music. I don’t know of any other way to explain that. There’s no separation. How can there be? There’s no dividing line. There’s no place the hearing stops and the music starts.
But it still feels like there’s a ‘hearer’ and a ‘thing heard’.

ok, so surely you can see here you have made 2 completely contradictory statements in saying there is just music with no separation, no dividing line, then in the next breath that there is a hearer and thing heard, 2 things!

Look again. Is there any actual experience of a hearer? If so you need to find it and describe it. Or is there just ideas about one that don't correspond to the experience?

What about a feeler?
Sit on a chair and close your eyes.
Again in the raw experience, the sensation itself is there 2 things going on, i.e 'bum' and 'chair' with a boundary or dividing line between them?
Is there anything separate to that sensation feeling it?

So my cousin and mom are expressing ideas that are just ideas. I get that. The ideas appear real to cousin and mom. So it’s just nothing. Just expression. There’s still suffering though. Imagined suffering that feels real.

What are the cousin and mom that those ideas are appearing to? Are they the same as a Lury that ideas are appearing to?
Is your current experience of Hannah any more than these words on the screen?

if I’m talking and I say ‘I got up and went to the kitchen’, that describes some action that the body took in a way someone else can understand, correct?

Well noticed, yes, sometimes thoughts are referring to the body in a practical way for communication- like 'i'm going to put the garbage out now' 'i'm hungry'.
What rough % of 'i, me, mine thoughts' are this type?

If I say ‘I’m feeling sad and blue’, that isn’t true. What’s sadness? What’s blue? What’s ‘I’?

yes, when you look, some sensory experience can be found labelled 'body' that thoughts are talking about/describing- but when looking can any experience of this I that is experiencing emotion be found?
Or would it be equally valid to say (though as I said and you are saying too,there is no need to talk like this!)- 'feelings labelled sad/blue are happening'.

Sit with eyes closed and imagine 'Lury' in as much detail as possible. Describe what happens, what images and words appear in detail.
Then when you are happy with that open the eyes and describe the actual experience of 'Lury' as it is appearing now. Just like any differences between the imaginary apple and the experience of 'apple'.

What I saw was this body doing things as if I were looking at it…like a character in a movie. Like what I see when I look in the mirror. But what actually is the case is a ‘looking out’ from a position, lets say. They are very different. Vastly different. One is watching myself from the perspective of someplace else and the other is from this body it seems. This one that happens is so much more ‘experiential’ and the other is seeing a character. When you asked me to describe this difference, I even tried on imagining from the perspective of looking out from the body, but that didn’t work because it didn’t seem like ‘Lury’ when I was imagining. It seemed more indistinct, so to speak. Very effective. Wow. There’s a character, ‘Lury’, it seems, but it’s not me. Totally see that once again ;)

Take a look for this observer then.
Does it have a location?
A size?
A shape?
Any characteristics you can describe to me.

I wanted to say it seems like the observer is behind the eyes, but then I remembered that ‘seems like’ is something I’m staying away from…and so without that phrase, I would have to say no, it doesn’t have any of those things. Actually, I wouldn’t even say seems like it’s behind the eyes. It’s nowhere.

Look again. Is there any actual experience of a hearer? If so you need to find it and describe it. Or is there just ideas about one that don't correspond to the experience?

As I was looking at this, the clock chimed. I could see that there’s no hearer. Just the sounds, so to speak.

Well noticed, yes, sometimes thoughts are referring to the body in a practical way for communication- like 'i'm going to put the garbage out now' 'i'm hungry'.
What rough % of 'i, me, mine thoughts' are this type?

Not many. Very low percentage I see, if any. There’s just the action. Only in talking in reference to something if I’m talking to someone about something I did or am going to do or something they did or are going to do.

yes, when you look, some sensory experience can be found labelled 'body' that thoughts are talking about/describing- but when looking can any experience of this I that is experiencing emotion be found?
Or would it be equally valid to say (though as I said and you are saying too,there is no need to talk like this!)- 'feelings labelled sad/blue are happening'.

Yes absolutely.

What I saw was this body doing things as if I were looking at it…like a character in a movie. Like what I see when I look in the mirror. But what actually is the case is a ‘looking out’ from a position, lets say

Looking out?
Is there a see-er? Inside?
separate to the colours and shapes?
Outside?
Is that how it is?

Take a look like the hearing.

And you missed this one out- looking forward to hearing about it-

What about a feeler?
Sit on a chair and close your eyes.
Again in the raw experience, the sensation itself is there 2 things going on, i.e 'bum' and 'chair' with a boundary or dividing line between them?
Is there anything separate to that sensation feeling it?

Also take a look in the mirror at the body. Really stare deep into the eyes. Is there a self in there?

Step back so other things can be seen in the mirror as well as the body.

Then ask
Is there part of this image that is more 'me' than another part?
Why/how?

There’s a character, ‘Lury’, it seems, but it’s not me.

Not sure what is being said here, that there is a 'me', but that's not Lury?
What is the label Lury referring to in experience?

I would have to say no, it doesn’t have any of those things. Actually, I wouldn’t even say seems like it’s behind the eyes. It’s nowhere.

so there is an observer? It's just 'nowhere'?

I could see that there’s no hearer. Just the sounds, so to speak.

Great. Keep checking this.

Looking out?
Is there a see-er? Inside?
separate to the colours and shapes?
Outside?
Is that how it is?

Take a look like the hearing.

I can’t say there is a see-er inside. There’s no separation with the seeing…just like there was no separation with the hearing. There’s only seeing. But what about perspective? There’s a perspective here and then another ‘person’ has a different view. There’s a perspective, right? Not clear on this.
If I’m standing on one side of something and my friend is on the other side, we see different views…is it different views of the same thing?

What about a feeler?
Sit on a chair and close your eyes.
Again in the raw experience, the sensation itself is there 2 things going on, i.e 'bum' and 'chair' with a boundary or dividing line between them?
Is there anything separate to that sensation feeling it?

I don’t get that there’s any separation in feeling. It’s just feeling. How can there be a separation from the feeling? Where would it be? We say it’s the feeling of one’s behind on a chair…which is a name for the feeling.

Also take a look in the mirror at the body. Really stare deep into the eyes. Is there a self in there?

I looked deep into the eyes and don’t see any ‘self’. What’s a ‘self’? There’s a body that’s seen. A face that’s only seen in the mirror.

Step back so other things can be seen in the mirror as well as the body.

Then ask
Is there part of this image that is more 'me' than another part?

I don’t know.

Why/how?

I don’t know on this question either.

Not sure what is being said here, that there is a 'me', but that's not Lury?
What is the label Lury referring to in experience?

‘Lury’ is referring to the body. I don’t feel like the body. I feel like the experiencer. Which is also the body, but from the vantage point of experience, The body isn’t really seen so much as everything else is…until there’s a mirror. I feel like I’m separate from ‘Lury’ even though they are the same. Feel a lot of frustration coming up…tightness in the chest, throat tightening a little a little unrest in the gut, something that feels like impatience and confusion.

so there is an observer? It's just 'nowhere'?

That is what it feels like. But then again, I don’t know what an observer is. A non-participant? It feels like there’s a non-participant seeing in some moments and in other moments, it feels like things are just happening.

But what about perspective? There’s a perspective here and then another ‘person’ has a different view. There’s a perspective, right? Not clear on this.
If I’m standing on one side of something and my friend is on the other side, we see different views…is it different views of the same thing?

So this is an idea there is a self, a Lury inside one body, having 'a perspective' and then another person (self) 'inside another body having a different perpective?
What are these 'perspectives'? What are they made of? Is there any raw experience of an individual, separate perspective right now. Compared to what?

I don’t get that there’s any separation in feeling.

Ok, so let's pull all this together:

Is there a hearer of sounds separate from sounds- (you've said no, but keep checking)

Is there a feel-er of sensations separate from sensations (including emotions) (again you've said no, but keep checking)

Is there a see-er of sights separate to sights? (again said no, but then talking about this perspective thing, let's look at that more)

Is there a thinker of thoughts or controller of the body? (you've said no but let me know if this has become unclear again)


Is there a smeller of smells separate to smell?

Is there a taster of taste separate to taste?

Is there an observer or experiencer of life separate to life?

Is there part of this image that is more 'me' than another part?

I don’t know.
Why/how?

I don’t know on this question either.

I'm not sure why this question was difficult. Let's look at possession in general-

Look around at possessions- my house/flat, my car, my tv, my money,
What makes them yours? And what is the you in that 'my' that is doing the possessing? How does that work?

Now, what about 'my lover, my siblings, my mother'
Same questions. What's going on there?

Now look again in the mirror- 'my body'.
Same questions.

I feel like the experiencer. Which is also the body, but from the vantage point of experience, The body isn’t really seen so much as everything else is…until there’s a mirror. I feel like I’m separate from ‘Lury’ even though they are the same.

This really makes no sense at all, read it again...it's like thoughts are grasping at straws here.
Look again.


Feel a lot of frustration coming up…tightness in the chest, throat tightening a little a little unrest in the gut, something that feels like impatience and confusion. [/quote]
Some of this we have addressed above...



The unpleasant reaction you describe again- i invite you to reframe it like this- if that comes up it means unfamiliar territory is being addressed/looked at. Unquestioned assumptions are being challenged. It's a fantstically useful barometer saying exactly the opposite of what it seems to be saying- it seems to say 'don't go there, here be dragons.' really it's message is- 'this is exactly what still needs clarity shining on it'.

I don’t know what an observer is. A non-participant? It feels like there’s a non-participant seeing in some moments and in other moments, it feels like things are just happening.

does this 'non-participant' have or is a shape? a size? a colour? a smell? sensations? a sound? a taste?

What is going on in experience that is being interpreted as this observer/non participant?

Hi Hannah,

So this is an idea there is a self, a Lury inside one body, having 'a perspective' and then another person (self) 'inside another body having a different perpective?
What are these 'perspectives'? What are they made of? Is there any raw experience of an individual, separate perspective right now. Compared to what?

I don’t see an experience of a separate perspective…but what about another person? What do we say? I say ‘I see….’ And another person says ‘I see…’. We’re looking at a table with stuff on it or whatever. I’m sitting down and the other person is standing up. We see different things. What is that? Just seeing different things?

Is there a hearer of sounds separate from sounds- (you've said no, but keep checking)

I have to back track here. This is not clear actually. There is no line…there’s no place (as I said) where hearing ends and sound starts. It’s all one, but that’s the only way I see it…is by seeing that there’s no dividing line, so that doesn’t really do it. Or is it that simple? It seems more like a math problem that goes like this…because there’s no dividing line between where hearing ends and sound starts, the answer is there is no distinction. It still looks like…there’s a sound, the sound reaches the body and vibrates off of whatever ear drum or what-have-you which creates a brain reaction which means the body hears something.
This could be a story I realize…is that what it is? Just a made up story about the function of the body? And then I’d go to…there’s no ‘body’ because that’s just a word describing some aspect of everything sensed. Which would mean that there’s no story of a body because there’s no body. Whoa. Really?? Whoa. Is it really that simple? All talk actually means nothing because it’s not based on anything….that is evident to me from the whole clucking thing.…that has remained evident...which would make sense with regard to the whole ‘body’ thing. It's like breaking things down one thing at a time...I swear, when I first saw the clucking thing, it was like watching some version of a nature show...except that I was a participant.

Is there a feel-er of sensations separate from sensations (including emotions) (again you've said no, but keep checking). In light of what I just said, how could there be a feeler?

There’s no ‘body’, only everything…or this.

Is there a see-er of sights separate to sights? (again said no, but then talking about this perspective thing, let's look at that more).

If there’s no ‘body’, where does seeing come from? IT’S ALL A STORY! A story of something called a body and then a million stories of how the body functions. ‘Body is just an aspect of everything ‘sensed’. Okay. This makes sense to me, but I have to test it…but I don’t know how. The whole ‘body’ thing. ‘Body’ is a word that separates out something that moves with this sense of existence that is here. That’s what I got. Does this make sense?

Is there a thinker of thoughts or controller of the body? (you've said no but let me know if this has become unclear again)

I still see the automatic here. That hasn't gone away. No thinker and no controller.

I know I didn't answer everything, but this was so monumental that I wanted to check first and see that I was on the right track. The other questions you posed with be easy to look at and answer if I am on the right track. :)

You are slipping back into analysis again, remember this is not about making sense of things, giving things meaning. Sometimes I call seeing 'unlearning'.

I don’t see an experience of a separate perspective…

No. exactly. It's an assumption.

‘I see….’ And another person says ‘I see…’. We’re looking at a table with stuff on it or whatever. I’m sitting down and the other person is standing up. We see different things. What is that? Just seeing different things?

What is the actual experience of that person in that moment? Does anything about that experience prove what they are saying is accurate?
For instance even the words 'i am seeing a cup'. If you said that, would that be anything like an accurate representation of the experience? To start with is there actually an 'i' seeing something? We have been looking at that.

There is no line…there’s no place (as I said) where hearing ends and sound starts. It’s all one, but that’s the only way I see it…is by seeing that there’s no dividing line, so that doesn’t really do it. Or is it that simple?

Yes, this is a report from looking.

Mind mindbogglingly, hilariously simple.

It still looks like…there’s a sound, the sound reaches the body and vibrates off of whatever ear drum or what-have-you which creates a brain reaction which means the body hears something.
This could be a story I realize…is that what it is? Just a made up story about the function of the body?

You tell me. Was there any experience of eardrums, brains etc in that moment? Or are those secondary ideas interpreting the experience?

And then I’d go to…there’s no ‘body’ because that’s just a word describing some aspect of everything sensed. Which would mean that there’s no story of a body because there’s no body. Whoa. Really?? Whoa. Is it really that simple?

Yes- body is a label

Describe everything the label 'body' is attempting to describe right now, first with eyes closed, then open.

A story of something called a body and then a million stories of how the body functions. ‘Body is just an aspect of everything ‘sensed’. Okay. This makes sense to me, but I have to test it…but I don’t know how.

ok, that's what i'm here for..

Try out the about question.
Also make sure you've gone through each of the senses many times looking for:

A separate self experiencing what is going on (taste hearing sights etc)-

as many times with each sense this can be looked at will continue to be useful- I often say this sort of looking is less 'explosion' and more 'erosion'...

A central location to which experience arises from or refers to?

Any experience of an inside vs an outside to experience?

Let me know what is found out about each one of those ideas.

Realizing that the body is an assumption took this to another level or something. Talk about opening up. Good gracious. Yes, I saw and see how all of that was a SUPER assumption :) That’s seeing how many assumptions are made that I don’t even REALIZE are happening.

Describe everything the label 'body' is attempting to describe right now, first with eyes closed, then open.

Body – internal organs, eyes, ears, arms, legs, brain, head, torso, breasts, sexual organs, internal functions, feet, hands, fingers, toes, hair, nose, lips, neck, there’s a seemingly endless list describing body or ‘body parts’ and body functions, energetic feelings, feeling sensations…and all of this is story.
Is this what you meant?

Try out the about question.

Not sure what you mean here. Did you mean ‘above’ question?

Also make sure you've gone through each of the senses many times looking for:
A separate self experiencing what is going on (taste hearing sights etc)-

There’s no dividing line between what’s seen and a see-er, so no separation.
There’s no dividing line between what’s felt and a feeler, so no separation
There’s no dividing line between what’s tasted and a taster, so no separation
There’s no dividing line between what’s heard and a hearer, so no separation.
There’s no location for any of these sensory experiences. How can they be separated? There is only the experience. I can’t…it seems like it’s the ‘body’, but I don’t know that. I can’t know that.
I will keep looking.
If the body is just part of what’s present and is just part of ‘this’ (for lack of a better term), it’s just part of the experience. So I can’t know that anything is actually going through ‘body’ and is sensed through the ‘body’. That’s a story. Stuff is sensed. That’s all I know.

A central location to which experience arises from or refers to?

No, there is no central location.

Any experience of an inside vs an outside to experience?

Nope

The following questions answered are from the previous message you sent that I didn’t finish with:

Is there an observer or experiencer of life separate to life?

How can there be? Everything just is part of life, so to speak. Life is just here. But it’s weird to be talking about it and in it…but I can’t really be talking about it because it can’t be talked about. It’s just happening. I see that. There’s a seeing :) Nothing is known. So weird.

Look around at possessions- my house/flat, my car, my tv, my money,
What makes them yours? And what is the you in that 'my' that is doing the possessing? How does that work?

How can anything be possessed? There’s only experience. I see that. There’s only experience. I’m sort of dumb-founded.

Now, what about 'my lover, my siblings, my mother'
Same questions. What's going on there?

All stories. All totally stories. Those are just sounds that don’t mean anything. There’s just experience. Don’t know how else to explain that.

Now look again in the mirror- 'my body'.
Same questions.

It’s part of experience. It seems like a hub, but how do I know that? It’s just in the experience.
I don’t know where experience is located. It has been assumed that experience is located in something called ‘the body’ as it is isolated out of experience. How did that assumption ever come to be? How did all of this stuff get made up? It evolved into being made up…wait…that’s yet another story. I’m not located anywhere. I hope you know I'm using I as a locator in speech. There's no 'I'. That's seen. So weird. There’s just experience. I know I keep saying that. That’s all I got right now.

Describe everything the label 'body' is attempting to describe right now, first with eyes closed, then open.

Body – internal organs, eyes, ears, arms, legs, brain, head, torso, breasts, sexual organs, internal functions, feet, hands, fingers, toes, hair, nose, lips, neck, there’s a seemingly endless list describing body or ‘body parts’ and body functions, energetic feelings, feeling sensations…and all of this is story.
Is this what you meant?

No- I meant what raw sensations are being labelled 'body' right now, as opposed to general sounds, sights etc.

Not sure what you mean here. Did you mean ‘above’ question?

yes- sorry.

I can’t…it seems like it’s the ‘body’, but I don’t know that. I can’t know that.
I will keep looking.
If the body is just part of what’s present and is just part of ‘this’ (for lack of a better term), it’s just part of the experience. So I can’t know that anything is actually going through ‘body’ and is sensed through the ‘body’. That’s a story. Stuff is sensed. That’s all I know.

This feels like a logical deduction- so yes keep looking until it's clear-
Is the body mediating experience, and doing 'sensing'?
Or is the body just a label for certain aspects of experience (namely tactile and kinaesthetic)?

I’m sort of dumb-founded.

Let's give a breathing space to see how this seeing settles out.
Sometimes new fears can start to bubble up. Let me know if that's happening.

x

Describe everything the label 'body' is attempting to describe right now, first with eyes closed, then open.I meant what raw sensations are being labelled 'body' right now, as opposed to general sounds, sights etc.
Is the body mediating experience, and doing 'sensing'?
Or is the body just a label for certain aspects of experience (namely tactile and kinesthetic)?

The body is a label for certain aspects of experience. Just a label…for certain aspects. It’s not necessarily pointing to this aspect seen in the mirror and labeled ‘body’. That’s what I’m getting. But those certain aspects of experience are attributed to the part of experience seen in the mirror and labeled ‘body’. Lots or argumentative thoughts come up around this.
I just ate, and closed my eyes to taste and notice where tasting was and how it ‘felt’. It seemed to be located in the ‘mouth’, but on closer examination, I don’t know. It was just happening. Do feelings have a location? I feel pain in my lower left back. It feels like they do. There’s a feeling of concentration of energy (for lack of a better term) around what’s labeled ‘body’. What does separation feel like? When I close my eyes, I don’t find an ending point. There feels like a concentration of feeling (or energy) like I mentioned, but no ending point to the feeling of ‘bodily energy’.

Let's give a breathing space to see how this seeing settles out.
Sometimes new fears can start to bubble up. Let me know if that's happening.

So far, no new fears.

I just ate, and closed my eyes to taste and notice where tasting was and how it ‘felt’. It seemed to be located in the ‘mouth’, but on closer examination, I don’t know. It was just happening. Do feelings have a location? I feel pain in my lower left back. It feels like they do

this subtley of looking at location is beyond the scope of the dialogue here at LU, but I heartily recommend to keep looking in this way.

We've covered a lot of angles in a short time here.
But rom your last few responses I'm going ask you at this point-

Is the illusion of a separate self seen through?

If not give me anything that still seems unclear about it.

Is the illusion of a separate self seen through?

I don’t know. Just experience is seen. Everything is automatic. I see there’s no ‘I’. I see there’s no ‘body’. It’s confusing. I see experiences. All I know is this experience. I can’t actually know what anything is. I don’t know. There’s just this and so I can only ever know this. What is a separate self? There is no such thing. There’s no separate self. There never was, but it still feels untrue or disorienting or something that I can’t name. Scrambled?

There’s still this feeling of choosing to do something or not do it with a mental dialogue that seems to result in either the body getting up and doing it or not. I remember what you said about the mind guessing or commentating on what happens, but that those thoughts (and any other thoughts, for that matter) really have nothing to do with reality. It still feels like the mind is talking the body into doing certain things. It’s all a story I know.

There’s still a fear in some moments. Sort of a worry that everything won’t get done, or I’m doomed. I know there’s no ‘I’. An on-going feeling of wrongness or something that comes and goes. It feels like a slight disturbance in the gut and a slight constriction in the throat. And a bunch of thoughts that still seem to get undivided attention…until they don’t. Like a 'don't forget to do this and this and this' that feels stressful (constricted throat feeling and slightly sped up heart and tight gut feeling)That was the state when I woke up this morning and has been the way of it a lot of mornings. There is a connecting the 'scary' thoughts to the bodily sensations. I see that this is an experience that just happens...and there is still a fear of future or something. It's almost like a 'it can't be this simple' and 'I have to keep worrying' or something. It's this:'There isn't anything but this, but that can't be really true.' Like relaxing into this as it is is dangerous somehow. I know that's all story and this is this...and that's what's felt.

Thanks for your honest reply. What you are describing is very common. One model to play with is that the system of thinking about life has been operating in a certain way for many years, and now that whole operating system is unravelling and a lot of it being seen to be inaccurate or unnecessary.

The question is- do you feel the tools are now in place to look at these fear sensations and thoughts when and as they arise?

Let's look a little at time-

How many of these fear thoughts are talking about the future?

You said something really key here

It's this:'There isn't anything but this, but that can't be really true.'

Really look at this. Something is being seen here, and then the thoughts are saying 'it can't be true'. Well. why not?

What is the past and the future, what are those labels pointing to?

Can it actually be known what will happen in the next 5 seconds, the next minute, tomorrow?

Where is tomorrow now?
Where is yesterday now?

An on-going feeling of wrongness or something that comes and goes. It feels like a slight disturbance in the gut and a slight constriction in the throat.

Yes! This is so good that this is being clocked. It's the core storyline.. 'something is wrong here'.

Those sensations come with a story 'something is wrong here'.

This may take a lot more looking at, and that is ok. It's very simple, when those sensations and a variation on that idea pops up, ask-

'is it true?'

'what's actually wrong about this experience happening now?

Tell me what is found.

Like relaxing into this as it is is dangerous somehow.

There is a protection mechanism going on here.
Take a look and tell me what is going on right now that needs protecting? From what?

xx

How many of these fear thoughts are talking about the future?

All of them. I’ve seen that there’s nothing wrong now. All fears I see are thoughts of future.

It's this:'There isn't anything but this, but that can't be really true.'
Really look at this. Something is being seen here, and then the thoughts are saying 'it can't be true'. Well. why not?

This question you posed brought tears. What felt like tears of joy or relief. But the thought keeps coming…’what if I forget something that I’m supposed to do? The experience of just being here and moving with what’s here seems dangerous.’ There’s nobody at the controls, so to speak. I know. These thoughts as well, ‘What if it’s not like this later because I didn’t push to do more now? What if later there’s suffering and hardship because I didn’t do something I need to do now?’ This is such a basic story that’s seen through, but looks so true somehow. I do have the tools to look through it, and that happens, so to speak.

What is the past and the future, what are those labels pointing to?

Nothing that’s here. Pointing to ideas, which don’t exist here that I can see. Past and future don’t exist. Those are just sounds, just like the sound ‘I’.

Can it actually be known what will happen in the next minute, tomorrow?

No, it can’t be known. Why does that feel so scary, yet irrelevant?

Where is tomorrow now?
Where is yesterday now?

Just ideas. Not anywhere. (More crying with all of these questions. Just flowing with it).

Those sensations come with a story 'something is wrong here'.

This may take a lot more looking at, and that is ok. It's very simple, when those sensations and a variation on that idea pops up, ask-
'is it true?'

'what's actually wrong about this experience happening now?

Tell me what is found.

Something that feels like relief and more crying and confusion and fear and joy and fear.

Take a look and tell me what is going on right now that needs protecting? From what?

Nothing needs protecting that I see right now. Nothing at all.