Let's do this!

[danl]

Did you mean "assumption"?

No, deduction. E.g., I'm not my body because I still exist without an arm, leg, etc. I'm not my thoughts as they come and go. So that left awareness. However I see an assumption in this statement because I don't know if I exist without a brain.

if you just relax and stop TRYING to hear, see, feel, think, etc, don't those experiences continue? If you then TRY to do those things, do they go on?

Yes, to both.

what is trying like for you? Does it mean you tense up your body or your face? What does trying consist of?

No tensing of the body or face when trying these things at least at this moment. There is a thought = "listen", then my attention focuses on the sounds I hear, and thoughts stop briefly.

You say awareness is an act of looking. Is that really true?

So seeing happens without looking (or trying to see). The mind may or may not react to what is seen...I'm wiped and will continue this later. Thanks for pushing me deeper.

[Armstrong]

Thanks for doing the exercises. I'm a bit surprised this is exhausting. Hopefully it will get easier.

If you look back at what you agreed to do, you are supposed to report from direct experience only. Focusing on other things wastes time and is hence against the rules. So you mention "brain" - in your direct experience, what is your brain? In your direct experience, what does it mean for something to "exist"?

When something doesn't exist, what is your perception of it like?

Does the past exist? Does the future exist? What is your direct experience of the past? What is your direct experience of the future?

[danl]

No, it's work this week that is cutting into my sleep.

what is your brain? In your direct experience, what does it mean for something to "exist"?

My brain is part of the body. Where memories are stored, thinking happens, and what is perceived by the senses is processed and labeled. In direct experience something exists if it is experienced in the physical world. This includes thoughts, and energy as they are experienced physically.

When something doesn't exist, what is your perception of it like?

Does the past exist? Does the future exist? What is your direct experience of the past? What is your direct experience of the future?

The past and future don't exist, only the thought or memory of them exist. Elation/excitement doesn't exist for me at the moment. My perception of it is like a memory - distant and without the energy.

[Armstrong]

Ok, so "brain" seems like an important concept to you.

In direct experience, what is your experience of the brain? That is, in terms of sight, smell, taste, touch, proprioception, hearing and thinking, what is your experience of your brain, if any?

[Armstrong]

Add to that - what is your experience - direct experience - of your pancreas?

Supposedly you've got one, just as you supposedly have a brain. I am wondering what your experience of those two is.

[Armstrong]

Before you reply, I suggest you recall this, "You'll answer questions honestly, based on your senses, not your thinking. Please avoid personal details in your responses. I won't ask personal questions. Let's try to keep things short, eschewing long answers, analytical answers, wordy answers."

[danl]

Thanks for the reminder. There is no experience of a brain or pancreas. Unless one of them was causing pain, but even then I wouldn't know it was my pancreas. Headaches for me are experienced in the eyes and sinuses and not deep in the brain, so no direct experience there either.

[Armstrong]

Thanks a lot for looking.

Now that that's out of the way, let's look at what you wrote:

My brain is part of the body. Where memories are stored, thinking happens, and what is perceived by the senses is processed and labeled.

Is there any evidence for that in direct experience?

Taking another tack, right now, as you read this, what is your experience? Can you please pay attention to what it is like to do the next thing you do and report on what your direct experience of that is?

[danl]

Hi, I was traveling today and will reply tomorrow (technically today).

[danl]

Is there any evidence for that in direct experience?

No, only the memories, and thoughts are there, but no evidence that the brain has anything to do with it.

Taking another tack, right now, as you read this, what is your experience?

Just reading, and looking inward to see if there is more, but nothing found.

Can you please pay attention to what it is like to do the next thing you do and report on what your direct experience of that is?

Thought to take a drink of water, without further thought my hand raises the glass to my mouth, mouth feels the texture, swallowing happens, then feel the water going down the throat and in the chest.

[Armstrong]

Thanks for looking. Your description of drinking water sounds like mine.

Let's recap some important stuff.

So I wrote

If you look back at what you agreed to do, you are supposed to report from direct experience only. Focusing on other things wastes time and is hence against the rules. So you mention "brain" - in your direct experience, what is your brain?

.

You replied,

My brain is part of the body. Where memories are stored, thinking happens, and what is perceived by the senses ... BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH...

I reminded you that you'd agreed to

answer questions honestly, based on your senses, not your thinking.

Then, prompted again, you wrote,

There is no experience of a brain or pancreas.

Which seems honest and based on your senses.

If you look back, you'll see that I've needed to remind you to answer based on your senses (and not your thinking) several times. Please do everyone a favor and before you hit "reply", check to see if you're doing it again.

Do you want to continue?

If so, how about during the next day, you try to do tasks with your non-dominant hand and pay attention, in terms of your senses (aka "direct experience"), what that's like.

Eg if you normally open doors with your right hand, do it with your left. If you normally peel fruit with the one hand, peel it with the other. If you catch yourself using your dominant hand, switch to the non-dominant one. Please pay attention to your thinking and feeling as you do this - where does the thinking come from? Are you "doing it", "controlling it", etc? What happens when you pay attention to basic daily things this way?

[danl]

Yes, I want to continue if you're willing, and will practice this.

Thanks

[Armstrong]

OK. Please try to report just from your direct experience going forward.

Please try the experiment with the non-dominant hand - the instructions are above.

I hope you have a lot of fun. You are doing well so far.

[danl]

Ok, I will work on direct experience. Thanks for sticking with me.

Throughout the day there was remembering to use the left hand as I did things. I wasn't focused on doing everything left handed or constantly reminding myself, but the thought to use the left hand would pop up.

Some tasks required no effort, but others required focusing. At first there is a feeling of stillness or quietness and focus with no thoughts when starting the activity, but if it continued long enough, the mind wanders and the left hand keeps performing without any help from the mind and the focus and sense of stillness is gone.

When performing tasks that require both hands, and switching the roles of the hands, the dominant hand has trouble in its new role as well.
One thing I played with is switching the roles of the hands when tying my shoes. The mind goes blank for a second as it wonders 'how?' and the one hand has to 'show' the other what to do (this was true with brushing my teeth too). This involved looking to see how tying is done normally, then switching hands and start tying in reverse, look again, and continue tying in reverse. There were no verbal or visual thoughts detected other than "how?"; just watching, and mimicking in reverse, with less dexterity of course.

You asked where does the thinking come from. It seems to come from the activity itself. I'm not doing it, or controlling it. While awkwardly eating left handed, I noticed tension in my left shoulder, then there was the thought "drop the shoulder". The thought was a reaction to discomfort.

Definitely a fun, and at times messy, experiment that I'll continue.

Thanks!

[Armstrong]

Thanks for looking and reporting.

Please keep trying the exercise with the non-dominant hand.

About direct experience - you need to communicate about what you perceive - that is, what you involuntarily experience. Eg if I smell some food, my mouth might get wet, I'd wake up a bit, my stomach might grumble, etc. None of those things are "up to me" - they are in some sense involuntary.

So, as you go about your day, is it it at all apparent how "you" control your thoughts to remind you of the exercise? You wrote,

but the thought to use the left hand would pop up.

- which implies it just happened. What sort of experience of agency do you have over this intention, whether or not you remember it, or whether or not you follow through on it?

Is it at all apparent how "you" learn how to tie your shoes with the non-dominant hand? Can you make yourself learn faster or slower? What sort of control do you have, and what is the nature of the control?

Are "you" - the thing understanding these words now - either of the hands? If you aren't the hands, is it apparent that you are connected to the hands? If so, how? If you hurt your hands or think about hurting them, you probably don't like it. Where do those likes and dislikes come from? Do you control them?

Again, please focus on direct experience. Your theories about how you do things don't matter as much as you accurately reporting on what it is like to be you doing these exercises.