request for a guide

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Divya

I keep looking at my experience on daily basis. It feels like a fun. It is like questioning everything and checking if this is truth what is really happening. I am noticing differences between pure experiencing and mental concept attached to it. There is no judgment what feels better but looking at it closely feels intriguing.

Good to notice that there's no or very little validity to thoughts :) Sounds like you're very clear on direct experience.

I am looking at it and … yes this seems to be true. There are no feelings for a second or longer and I am not disappearing. The same applies to sensations and thoughts. Yes, I can see this now ….

So it is clear that there is no separate self? No separate entity running the show?

yes, I am noticing the experience + attached mental concept of them. I also see that a mental concept is not always present and there is only experience – looking, sitting, breathing … these experience seem to be effortless, there is also no need to name them – just experiencing. I can’t stop my heart beating , can’t stop other functions of my body. It is clear that all of this is happening by itself , working perfectly well.

Cool! Here is an interesting exercise on the body.
With the eyes closed, sitting still, notice hearing, smelling, tasting, touching. With only the input from the senses, and without relying on thoughts or mental images:
Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does it have a weight or a volume of the body?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
Is there an inside or outside?
What is the body in the actual experience?

No, that belief has been challenged and doesn’t have a great power anymore. I can see that I am not that person sitting in a chair. I don’t know clearly who I am but I recognize slowly what I am not.

:) Great. Yes recognizing that you're not what thought says you are makes it clear that thought can't say anything about that which is 'true'.
An arising thought is ‘real’ only as an arising thought, but NEVER its content (what it’s about).
When there is a thought, it is obvious that it is there. (So the arising thought is ‘real’), but what it is ABOUT (its contents) are not. The content of thoughts is always imaginary. That there is a thought is clearly true; but their content is pure imagination.
There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

I invite you to do this exercise:
Think of a cup. Get a very clear picture in your mind. See clearly the size, shape, colour and volume of the cup. Notice whether it is decorated or plain. Notice whether it has a handle. Notice whether it is heavy or fragile. Do you have a clear picture in mind?

Now, can you physically grasp that image of a cup?
Can you pour tea into it?
Can you drink from it? In Reality?
Is there a ‘real’ cup or just an image of a cup?
Is there an appearing mental image?
Is the content of the mental image (the cup) ‘real’?
The thoughts and mental images are real only as arising thoughts and mental images, their ‘presence’ cannot be denied. However their contents, what are they about (like the cup) are not ‘real’, they are just fantasies. Can you see this?

Over the course of the next few days, I'd like you to notice the content of thoughts. Whenever there is an arising thought or mental image, check whether its content (what it’s about) it is REALLY happening or the content it’s just pure imagination.

No seer, just seeing. Yes, this is very clear. I can see how much thoughts influence a real experience and make them into something else. Wow, so clear but ignored for so long.

When looked at like this somethings seem so obvious now :) Was there ever a seer?

It is clear for me that the sense of a person and a sense of individual "I" comes from the mind and it gives an impression to be a truth. I can’t see this as a truth anymore.

I really enjoy looking at these experiences. Thank you very much.

Excellent! A 'shift' seems to have occurred. Would you say 100% without a doubt that there is no separate self?
There are a few more things I'd like us to look at, now we'll look at
such as control
What is controlling the arm?
Can a controlling ‘thing’ be located?
What moves the arm?
What is choosing which arm to raise?
Can you find the ‘thing’ that is doing the choosing?
How the decision is made which arm to raise?
How the decision is made when to raise the arm?
--

love

Tanya <3

[Divya]

Hi Tanya,

so it is clear that there is no separate self? No separate entity running the show?

After close investigation there is no separate entity running the show. It was easy to see when I was looking at the body functions. I saw I have no control over them as they are run by themselves.
It was more challenging to look at who is taking actions in the external reality and who is making decisions and plans things, who get things done or makes changes. That felt a bit awkward to see that no one is doing it. Though, after close looking I also see that actions are happening by themselves. I have no idea what will happen next and what choices will be taken, how things will be done etc. I have been under an impression for the most of my life that I make these choices and take actions. This has clearly never been seen in a different way.

Here is an interesting exercise on the body.

It feels like the body is boundless space.

An arising thought is ‘real’ only as an arising thought, but NEVER its content (what it’s about). When there is a thought, it is obvious that it is there. (So the arising thought is ‘real’), but what it is ABOUT (its contents) are not. The content of thoughts is always imaginary. That there is a thought is clearly true; but their content is pure imagination.

Wow, I never see it in this way. I couldn't work out which thoughts are true and which are not. I was a bit confused about it. So I can say that they are real in its form and never real in its content. This completely changes my perspective.

There are two types of thoughts:
(1) Thoughts with words “Here is cup”
(2) Visual mental images of a ‘cup’

I invite you to do this exercise:

This exercise makes it truly factual for me. I actually wanted to ask you how do you know this and here we go. So, the content of thoughts is only fantasy. Wow... Why do we believe them so religiously? 90% of my daily life I spent with my thoughts. I have an ongoing conversation with them. Like a little radio or movie screen in my head. They are not real? That is so insane to pay so much attention to their content. I knew it in some way but I never seen it so clearly and truthfully.

Excellent! A 'shift' seems to have occurred. Would you say 100% without a doubt that there is no separate self?

Let’s check it again. After a thorough investigation I see there is no separate self. Seeing this still require the attention of looking. For example, I felt jealousy a few days ago. I automatically jumped into a mental conversation with myself and the other person. Judgements, projections, insecurity, need to control, upsets, aching, etc. I was in it. It didn’t feel connecting, rather separating. Then, I look at it. I did a similar investigation. I looked closely at the collage of thoughts, images, feelings and sensation and I could see the pieces of different appearances. It took a while to see that there is no one responsible for all of these appearing.

So, in the middle of challenging experience something slowed down to see it the way it is. Would you say that stabilizing in these experiences may take a while?

There are a few more things I'd like us to look at, now we'll look at
such as control

I will look at this exercise tomorrow as I want to spend a bit time with it. I will include my findings in my email.

Much love

Divya

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Divya,

After close investigation there is no separate entity running the show. It was easy to see when I was looking at the body functions. I saw I have no control over them as they are run by themselves.
It was more challenging to look at who is taking actions in the external reality and who is making decisions and plans things, who get things done or makes changes. That felt a bit awkward to see that no one is doing it. Though,after close looking I also see that actions are happening by themselves. I have no idea what will happen next and what choices will be taken, how things will be done etc. I have been under an impression for the most of my life that I make these choices and take actions. This has clearly never been seen in a different way.

:) Yes seeing that there is no control,no chooser, no separate entity that 'does' actions can feel strange but continued exploration of this should help.
Investigate ‘decision making’ whatever ‘you’ do today.
Describe in detail a decision of a small event, for example getting up.
Can a decision maker be found making the body leave the bed?
Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up comes from?
What makes the body get up, is there a ‘you’, or a decider that commands the body?
When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?
How does the decision happen?
Does a decider come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
Or does getting up just happen, or not, as part of the flow of life?

You may be quite clear on this already but I like to be thorough :)

It feels like the body is boundless space.

Yes, boundless is a good description. Saying there is space though sounds a little like separation. Can you find space in actual experience or is everything appearing seamlessly in What is and as What is? (What is just another way of saying Awareness,Consciousness,Life etc)

Wow, I never see it in this way. I couldn't work out which thoughts are true and which are not. I was a bit confused about it. So I can say that they are real in its form and never real in its content. This completely changes my perspective.

Let’s have a deeper look on thoughts. Sit for about 15 minutes and investigate these questions:

Where thoughts come from?
Where are they going?
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
Can ‘you’ predict what will be the next thought?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Let’s have a deeper look on thoughts. Sit for about 15 minutes and investigate these questions:

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
“I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
What is the thinker of thoughts?
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
Or could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?

Is there an 'I' that has ownership of thoughts?
What do the thoughts belong to? What owns them?

Do you think thoughts or you are just being thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?

Please go through these questions and answer ALL of them one-by-one. Don’t miss any. Take your time.

This exercise makes it truly factual for me. I actually wanted to ask you how do you know this and here we go. So, the content of thoughts is only fantasy. Wow... Why do we believe them so religiously? 90% of my daily life I spent with my thoughts. I have an ongoing conversation with them. Like a little radio or movie screen in my head. They are not real? That is so insane to pay so much attention to their content. I knew it in some way but I never seen it so clearly and truthfully.

Also there's no choice whether we pay attention to them or not. It just happens :) I agree it seems insane to pay attention to content but when you notice that it is just story and the thought is not taken seriously or believed any thought can arise.

Let’s check it again. After a thorough investigation I see there is no separate self. Seeing this still require the attention of looking. For example, I felt jealousy a few days ago. I automatically jumped into a mental conversation with myself and the other person. Judgements, projections, insecurity, need to control, upsets, aching, etc. I was in it. It didn’t feel connecting, rather separating. Then, I look at it. I did a similar investigation. I looked closely at the collage of thoughts, images, feelings and sensation and I could see the pieces of different appearances. It took a while to see that there is no one responsible for all of these appearing.

So, in the middle of challenging experience something slowed down to see it the way it is. Would you say that stabilizing in these experiences may take a while?

Yes I would say that stabilizing may take a while. I couldn't say how long as it seems to be different for 'everybody'.What has been most helpful here is to keep investigating anything that comes up to be seen through. Don't be too daunted by that though as a light,playful,curious approach keeps it fun ha ha.
Arising ‘emotion’ like ‘fear’ or ‘happiness’ that has three components:
(a) a pure bodily sensation, like contraction or relaxation
(b) a mental label stick to (layered over) the bodily sensation, like “this is fear” or “this is contraction in the stomach” or “unpleasant” or “I am happy”
(c) and simultaneously arising mental images (pictures) about a certain body parts, like picture about the stomach or the chest

So, what we have to do is to separate:
- the thoughts story
- mental images accompanying the story
- the pure bodily sensation
- mental labels stuck to the sensation
- mental images about certain body parts
So, if you ignore all thought stories, the mental labels and mental images and you pay attention ONLY to the PURE sensation, then what is left?
Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is ‘bad’, ‘good’, ‘sad’, ‘happy’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’?
Or ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘uncomfortable’, ‘pleasant’ or ‘unpleasant’ are just mental labels that are stuck to the pure sensation?
Does the pure sensation have any innate attributes, or is it totally NEUTRAL?

I will look at this exercise tomorrow as I want to spend a bit time with it. I will include my findings in my email.

Cool, take as long as you need on any exercises I invite you to experiment with :)

Much love

Tanya

[Divya]

Hi Tanya,

I am enjoying so much going through exercises as they help to see truly through the experience. Can we take a bit slower pace with exercises if possible? The exercises are fantastic and perhaps one at the time is better. I would like to marinate in new discoveries. Every exercise feels like a new finding that I want to enjoy for a bit.

What is controlling the arm?
Can a controlling ‘thing’ be located?
What moves the arm?
What is choosing which arm to raise?
Can you find the ‘thing’ that is doing the choosing?
How the decision is made which arm to raise?
How the decision is made when to raise the arm?

I don’t know what controls arm
No, a controlling “thing” can’t be located.
First it feels like I am moving the arm, but I also see that the arm is moving when I don’t pay the attention so it has a life on its own.
It feels like I am choosing but I know it can’t be true …
No, I can’t find the “thing” that is doing choosing.
I don’t know how the decision is made which arm to raise. Perhaps through some neorotransmiter in the brain and that also comes from some elsewhere.

Investigate ‘decision making’ whatever ‘you’ do today.
Describe in detail a decision of a small event, for example getting up.
Can a decision maker be found making the body leave the bed?
Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up comes from?
What makes the body get up, is there a ‘you’, or a decider that commands the body?
When lying there, shout 'GET UP' internally as loudly as you can. Does that affect the outcome?
How does the decision happen?
Does a decider come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences?
Or does getting up just happen, or not, as part of the flow of life?

A decision maker can’t be found making the body leave the bed.
It feels like a decision comes form thinking
Body gets up by itself , there is no Me that decides about it.
It doesn't seem like shouting “get up” has an effect.
The decision can happen or not
There is no decider in taking an action but a decision happens.
Yes, it looks like getting up just happens or not as a part of the flow of life.

I will reflect on other exercises tomorrow.

Much love

Divya

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Divya,

I am enjoying so much going through exercises as they help to see truly through the experience. Can we take a bit slower pace with exercises if possible? The exercises are fantastic and perhaps one at the time is better. I would like to marinate in new discoveries. Every exercise feels like a new finding that I want to enjoy for a bit.

Yeah definitely! I get a bit too enthusiastic with this investigation. I agree one exercise at a time is better to reall focus :) Let's slow down and smell the roses so to speak.

I don’t know what controls arm
No, a controlling “thing” can’t be located.
First it feels like I am moving the arm, but I also see that the arm is moving when I don’t pay the attention so it has a life on its own.
It feels like I am choosing but I know it can’t be true …
No, I can’t find the “thing” that is doing choosing.
I don’t know how the decision is made which arm to raise. Perhaps through some neorotransmiter in the brain and that also comes from some elsewhere.

Is there a 'controller' or just experience of movement? Keep looking at this :)
What is your experience of the brain?
Can you find it in direct experience?
I'm not saying there is no brain, it is just that looking at it that way is a wee bit intellectual.

A decision maker can’t be found making the body leave the bed.
It feels like a decision comes form thinking
Body gets up by itself , there is no Me that decides about it.
It doesn't seem like shouting “get up” has an effect.
The decision can happen or not
There is no decider in taking an action but a decision happens.
Yes, it looks like getting up just happens or not as a part of the flow of life.

So there is no 'me' deciding this but yet the decision comes from thinking?
Is it possible that the body gets up from the bed with no input from thought making it happen?
Can thought make anything happen?

I will reflect on other exercises tomorrow.

Sweet as <3 Look forward to seeing your responses. Enjoy!

Much love,
Tanya <3

[Divya]

Hi Tanya,

I am glad that I have a lot of time today to continue the inquiry. There are responses to your previous emails that truly inspired my looking. Thank you for this.

Is there a 'controller' or just experience of movement? Keep looking at this :)
What is your experience of the brain?
Can you find it in direct experience?
I'm not saying there is no brain, it is just that looking at it that way is a wee bit intellectual.

Ok, I was a bit puzzled with my answers about “what is choosing my arm to raise”. I knew there is no chooser, but then how this is happening. I can see now that the question provoked the answer from the mind trying to explain reasoning which is never close to truth. Seeing it now as only the experience of movement, it feels clear.

My experience of the brain is only intellectual knowledge of it. I actually can’t find direct experience of the brain, apart from mental images and thoughts.

So there is no 'me' deciding this but yet the decision comes from thinking?
Is it possible that the body gets up from the bed with no input from thought making it happen?
Can thought make anything happen?

Yes, I can see this to be possible. I am noticing a resistance in seeing that thoughts make nothing happen. Is there any purpose of thoughts? They seem to be just trouble makers and confusers. I always thought that the appearance of human civilizations and advanced technology is a result of the intelligence of thoughts. Is it appropriate to say that those appear like a creation of thoughts/human mind but it is created by No One?

Where thoughts come from?
Where are they going?
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
Can ‘you’ predict what will be the next thought?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

I don’t know where thoughts are come from and where they are going. They seem to be appearing and disappearing.
No, I can’t stop a thought in the middle and I can’t predict what will be the next thought.
Thoughts just happen.

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
“I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
What is the thinker of thoughts?
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
Or could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?

Is there an 'I' that has ownership of thoughts?
What do the thoughts belong to? What owns them?

Do you think thoughts or you are just being thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?

No, “I” that generates thoughts can’t be found, “I” it is a thought by itself , so it is equal in its nature with other thoughts.
“I think” it seem to be two thoughts : I + think. there is no one that thinks.
There is no the thinker that thinks thoughts, only if believed which is another thought.
The thinker can’t be found and doesn’t appear in experiences , thoughts are appearing as experiences
“I” that thinks is a thought or belief
There is no “I” controlling thoughts, thoughts have no controller, they come from nowhere and go to nowhere.
There is no “I” that owns thoughts, thoughts exist by themselves, no one owns them
No , it is impossible to prevent a thought from appearing. They can’t be controlled. The "I" thought seems to be powerless the same like other thoughts.

Hmm, that was a powerful investigation. After close looking and answering these questions one by one, it is so clear. So, I can see that this “Believer- Thinker” is an illusion. It feels like an apparent entity that has an obvious existence but after the investigation everything confirm that it doesn't exist. Would it be appropriate to say that this “Believer - Thinker” is only the contracted energy that suggests/believes its separate existence and has a tendency to claim that everything is created by it? This seems really ridicules for me at the moment.

If in “my” daily life something is under the illusion of being the separate self, absorbed in thinking and stories, and then suddenly notices its own dream/untruth, is this a sign of the illusion being seen? This seems to be my daily experience at the moment. The illusion is seen and it is also forgotten.

Arising ‘emotion’ like ‘fear’ or ‘happiness’ that has three components:
(a) a pure bodily sensation, like contraction or relaxation
(b) a mental label stick to (layered over) the bodily sensation, like “this is fear” or “this is contraction in the stomach” or “unpleasant” or “I am happy”
(c) and simultaneously arising mental images (pictures) about a certain body parts, like picture about the stomach or the chest

So, I feel irritation at the moment. There is the unpleasant noise coming form the outside.

A. contraction – bodily sensation
B. irritation – mental label + bodily sensation
C. picture of the jaw clinging – mental picture of the body
D. the thoughts story and images – how annoying and inconsiderate my neighbour is making this noise on Sunday, I can’t wait when he will finish … I don’t like him for doing it … I have an image of him being in the garden and moving things aggressively.
So, that what is happening in “my head” right now.
If I ignore images, labels, stories and I stay with pure sensation , I notice only contraction. Does it feel neutral? At the moment it doesn't , because I know it opposite – relaxing. Ignoring the suggestion of the thought that there is an opposite which feels better , I notice that pure sensation is neutral as it has nothing to be compare to. Wow….

I love these investigations. It feels like going into the molecules of the Being and seeing what really is happening there. It seems so obvious as well as noticing the old patterns and conditioning absorbed in its illusion.

Much love

Divya

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Divya,

I am glad that I have a lot of time today to continue the inquiry. There are responses to your previous emails that truly inspired my looking. Thank you for this.

:) So happy to see how inspired and how much this investigation is being enjoyed <3

Ok, I was a bit puzzled with my answers about “what is choosing my arm to raise”. I knew there is no chooser, but then how this is happening. I can see now that the question provoked the answer from the mind trying to explain reasoning which is never close to truth. Seeing it now as only the experience of movement, it feels clear.

My experience of the brain is only intellectual knowledge of it. I actually can’t find direct experience of the brain, apart from mental images and thoughts.

And could mental images and thoughts be what actually is 'happening'? Happening to no - one ;)
Here is an interesting exercise.
Imagine the situation what you will be doing at Xmas. Let a movie develop and watch it for a few minutes. Observe what you do, how to move and go, how you take part in conversation with others. Observe the bodily sensations and your reactions to their comments. When the movie seems real, observe the followings:
Are the scene and the objects real?
Are others in this movie real?
Is there a real conversation taking place?
Are the 'you' real that appears in the movie?
Are the bodily sensations real that develop as a result of the movie?
What is and isn't real in this movie?

Yes, I can see this to be possible. I am noticing a resistance in seeing that thoughts make nothing happen. Is there any purpose of thoughts? They seem to be just trouble makers and confusers. I always thought that the appearance of human civilizations and advanced technology is a result of the intelligence of thoughts. Is it appropriate to say that those appear like a creation of thoughts/human mind but it is created by No One?

Thoughts can be a useful tool for practical matters. There is no problem with the appearance of thoughts.
Can thoughts 'do' anything? Can a thought create anything?
Next time when resistance comes up, just stop and observe what is happening. Ignore the story and just FEEL the sensations in the body that is labelled as ‘resistance’.

Does the pure sensation suggest in any way that this is resistance ?
Or only mental labels suggest it?
Does the pure sensation has any qualities, characteristics or attributes? Or is it just IS as it is?

I don’t know where thoughts are come from and where they are going. They seem to be appearing and disappearing.
No, I can’t stop a thought in the middle and I can’t predict what will be the next thought.
Thoughts just happen.

Exactly - 'Thoughts just happen' :) Floating along like clouds in the sky.

No, “I” that generates thoughts can’t be found, “I” it is a thought by itself , so it is equal in its nature with other thoughts.
“I think” it seem to be two thoughts : I + think. there is no one that thinks.
There is no the thinker that thinks thoughts, only if believed which is another thought.
The thinker can’t be found and doesn’t appear in experiences , thoughts are appearing as experiences
“I” that thinks is a thought or belief
There is no “I” controlling thoughts, thoughts have no controller, they come from nowhere and go to nowhere.
There is no “I” that owns thoughts, thoughts exist by themselves, no one owns them
No , it is impossible to prevent a thought from appearing. They can’t be controlled. The "I" thought seems to be powerless the same like other thoughts.

Some 'beautiful' looking Divya :) Is any thought more relevant than the sound of the fridge?
Is any thought more or less you than the sound of a fridge?

Hmm, that was a powerful investigation. After close looking and answering these questions one by one, it is so clear. So, I can see that this “Believer- Thinker” is an illusion. It feels like an apparent entity that has an obvious existence but after the investigation everything confirm that it doesn't exist. Would it be appropriate to say that this “Believer - Thinker” is only the contracted energy that suggests/believes its separate existence and has a tendency to claim that everything is created by it? This seems really ridicules for me at the moment.

A feeling of contraction can be there. All is allowed in what is and is that way already otherwise it would not appear. Can you see is only a feeling labelled by thought as suggesting a separate entity or does it seem to mean something? You can look at any feeling/sensation and see if it belongs to a 'me' or is just another appearance in what is (awareness) as what is (awareness).

If in “my” daily life something is under the illusion of being the separate self, absorbed in thinking and stories, and then suddenly notices its own dream/untruth, is this a sign of the illusion being seen? This seems to be my daily experience at the moment. The illusion is seen and it is also forgotten

.
You have seen the illusion but you don't need 'my' validation for that :) What you feel is true is the 'authority' in this investigation. I'm only here to give pointers. The feeling of 'I got it, I lost it' is very common when the illusion is being seen through. A carrot seems to be dangled, the 'Tanya' character has something I want and don't have. But is this true?

Is there anything lacking right now, in this moment?
Is it true that what you are is not ALREADY here?
Is it true that something has to happen in order to be here?

So, I feel irritation at the moment. There is the unpleasant noise coming form the outside.

A. contraction – bodily sensation
B. irritation – mental label + bodily sensation
C. picture of the jaw clinging – mental picture of the body
D. the thoughts story and images – how annoying and inconsiderate my neighbour is making this noise on Sunday, I can’t wait when he will finish … I don’t like him for doing it … I have an image of him being in the garden and moving things aggressively.
So, that what is happening in “my head” right now.
If I ignore images, labels, stories and I stay with pure sensation , I notice only contraction. Does it feel neutral? At the moment it doesn't , because I know it opposite – relaxing. Ignoring the suggestion of the thought that there is an opposite which feels better , I notice that pure sensation is neutral as it has nothing to be compare to. Wow….

Wow, absolutely beautiful,especially that last line 'I notice that pure sensation is neutral as it has nothing to be compare to. Wow…'
This can be a 'useful tool' for looking at any sensations that come up labelled as 'unpleasant', even looking at 'pleasant' sensations can be helpful :)

I love these investigations. It feels like going into the molecules of the Being and seeing what really is happening there. It seems so obvious as well as noticing the old patterns and conditioning absorbed in its illusion.

:) Yep, getting to the root of the illusion is so exciting. It really is wonderful to notice what is actually 'going on' and how the old patterns and conditioning show up but aren't the problem they were thought to be.

Much love

Tanya

[Divya]

Hi Tanya,

And could mental images and thoughts be what actually is 'happening'? Happening to no - one ;)
Here is an interesting exercise.
Imagine the situation what you will be doing at Xmas. Let a movie develop and watch it for a few minutes. Observe what you do, how to move and go, how you take part in conversation with others. Observe the bodily sensations and your reactions to their comments. When the movie seems real, observe the followings:
Are the scene and the objects real?
Are others in this movie real?
Is there a real conversation taking place?
Are the 'you' real that appears in the movie?
Are the bodily sensations real that develop as a result of the movie?
What is and isn't real in this movie?

So, mental images and thoughts are happening. What feels real is experience of them not the meaning/content of them. Are they happening/experienced by anyone? No, they just happen, so they are happening to no one.
The scene of the imaginary situation and objects are not real. Talking to some people in that scene feels very real , but it is also clearly seen that these people are not tangible and they can’t ever hear my words and all that scenery is just a fantasy. Everything in that scene appears as thoughts and images. I can’t see myself, even my voice is unreal. I see that feelings and sensations are present.
What is real is this “movie “is that there is the appearance of thoughts and images, feelings and sensation. There is also the presence that experiences all of those.
What isn’t real is the apparent reality of this imaginary scene.

Can thoughts 'do' anything? Can a thought create anything?

Well, I was under the impression that they can, this is based on widespread conditioning. There is so much teaching on the market emphasizing positive thinking and its influence on someone’s reality – “You are what you think”. This is one of the illusions that is slowly dissolving from my system. So, creation just happens. I feel contraction when I expressed it and that is what is happening.

A feeling of contraction can be there. All is allowed in what is and is that way already otherwise it would not appear. Can you see is only a feeling labelled by thought as suggesting a separate entity or does it seem to mean something? You can look at any feeling/sensation and see if it belongs to a 'me' or is just another appearance in what is (awareness) as what is (awareness).

Yes, my day was full of noticing these sensations – contraction and expansion (different degree of it) – movement. Thoughts, comments, stories, feelings appearing but less attention put on them. I noticed that focus goes somewhere else today - more onto this what is really happening.

You have seen the illusion but you don't need 'my' validation for that :) What you feel is true is the 'authority' in this investigation. I'm only here to give pointers. The feeling of 'I got it, I lost it' is very common when the illusion is being seen through. A carrot seems to be dangled, the 'Tanya' character has something I want and don't have. But is this true?

Ok, thank you for reminding me of the internal authority.

Is there anything lacking right now, in this moment?
Is it true that what you are is not ALREADY here?
Is it true that something has to happen in order to be here?

After the investigation it is clear that nothing is lacking in this moment. I see thoughts are appearing rapidly, suggesting “not enough”. Is it true? No.
Is it true that what you are is not ALREADY here? I took time with this question.
I am here ...noticing sensation of contraction...
Nothing has to happen in order to be here... noticing relaxation ... and contraction ... and relaxation...and ... it feels very simple and obvious.

Yep, getting to the root of the illusion is so exciting. It really is wonderful to notice what is actually 'going on' and how the old patterns and conditioning show up but aren't the problem they were thought to be.

ah, I have no words how touching that feels...

much love

Divya

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Divya,

So, mental images and thoughts are happening. What feels real is experience of them not the meaning/content of them. Are they happening/experienced by anyone? No, they just happen, so they are happening to no one.
The scene of the imaginary situation and objects are not real. Talking to some people in that scene feels very real , but it is also clearly seen that these people are not tangible and they can’t ever hear my words and all that scenery is just a fantasy. Everything in that scene appears as thoughts and images. I can’t see myself, even my voice is unreal. I see that feelings and sensations are present.
What is real is this “movie “is that there is the appearance of thoughts and images, feelings and sensation. There is also the presence that experiences all of those.
What isn’t real is the apparent reality of this imaginary scene.

Can you see how this is a metaphor or pointer for the unreliability of thoughts? Is the presence that experiences a separate self or is it more like a background or screen which everything appears on?
There is no separation between the so called subject and the object. All seeming separation created by thinking.
Saying that thoughts appear in awareness is separation. So thoughts can be observed from the distance (from the point of view of awareness). But there is no distance. There is zero distance between the appearing thought and the awareness of it. The thought itself is the awareness of it. They are the same. There is no subject-object relation.
Experience is not divided into a perceiving subject and a perceived object which are connected through an act of perceiving. There is only perceiving.
Can you see this?
You don’t have awareness! You’ve never had. You are just a thought. A thought cannot have awareness.
Can you see this?
Same as the body.
The body doesn’t have awareness. Quite the opposite. The body is being ‘awared’ / experienced.
Can you see this?

Well, I was under the impression that they can, this is based on widespread conditioning. There is so much teaching on the market emphasizing positive thinking and its influence on someone’s reality – “You are what you think”. This is one of the illusions that is slowly dissolving from my system. So, creation just happens. I feel contraction when I expressed it and that is what is happening.

Yes 'creation' just happens :) As I've said contraction can be 'there' and it can be fully felt, being kind and compassionate with any thought stories that come up but not buying into them so much either.
Here is an exercise that will take 20 minutes. (please set a timer)

For ten minutes, write what is happening just as usual, using "I". I am typing, I am sitting, I am drinking a cup of tea. I am breathing.

When ten minutes is up, switch to writing what is happening without using I. Typing. Sitting. Drinking tea. Breathing.

At the end of the 20 minutes, notice the difference(s) between the two lists.

Is one true-er than the other? How did it feel to write them? Was there a difference in feeling?
Was there any difference at all in how life showed up writing with or without "I"?
(Please copy here both of the unedited texts.)

A feeling of contraction can be there. All is allowed in what is and is that way already otherwise it would not appear. Can you see is only a feeling labelled by thought as suggesting a separate entity or does it seem to mean something? You can look at any feeling/sensation and see if it belongs to a 'me' or is just another appearance in what is (awareness) as what is (awareness).

Yes, my day was full of noticing these sensations – contraction and expansion (different degree of it) – movement. Thoughts, comments, stories, feelings appearing but less attention put on them. I noticed that focus goes somewhere else today - more onto this what is really happening.

:) Cool, this can be an 'ongoing' investigation for as long as you'd like and really it will just happen or not :)

Ok, thank you for reminding me of the internal authority.

Just wanted to say I wasn't referring to anything separate, it's more of a gut feeling of what resonates or feels true :)

After the investigation it is clear that nothing is lacking in this moment. I see thoughts are appearing rapidly, suggesting “not enough”. Is it true? No.
Is it true that what you are is not ALREADY here? I took time with this question.
I am here ...noticing sensation of contraction...
Nothing has to happen in order to be here... noticing relaxation ... and contraction ... and relaxation...and ... it feels very simple and obvious.

Excellent, and that is just how life is in my opinion :) I still investigate in this way. I would never say 'someone' is done with this investigation even when the illusion of the separate self has been seen through.

ah, I have no words how touching that feels...

<3 Beautiful!

much love

Tanya

[Divya]

hi Tanya,

Can you see how this is a metaphor or pointer for the unreliability of thoughts?

I can completely see untrustworthiness of thoughts. It just amazes me how much space they are taking in my life. Despite the fact that I see this they are arising so plentifully and getting the attention.

Is the presence that experiences a separate self or is it more like a background or screen which everything appears on?

I am not sure what to call This in which everything appears. Is this important? I hear people using different words and I get confused what they all mean. I hear words: consciousness, awareness, knowing, oneness, speciousness, Absolute, Nothing, Emptiness, Beingness etc. I assume they point at the same direction but I still get confused if they mean the same thing. When I used the word Presence I was referring to something what is difficult to describe by qualities and yes it is like a background/screen in which everything appears.

There is no separation between the so called subject and the object. All seeming separation created by thinking

yes, I can see how much separation thinking can bring, mistakenly dividing the reality at subject - object relation.

Saying that thoughts appear in awareness is separation.

Can you please guide me through this expression a bit further so I can be clear on this. I don’t seem to understand word awareness. How the word – awareness is different in its expression from the screen or background in which everything appears.So, if I say that thoughts are appearing in awareness I suggest separation as there are two things : awareness and thoughts. If I say awareness appear as thoughts I suggest sameness.

So thoughts can be observed from the distance (from the point of view of awareness

What is the point of view of awareness referring to? I am assuming if they observed by the separate self.

But there is no distance. There is zero distance between the appearing thought and the awareness of it. The thought itself is the awareness of it. They are the same. There is no subject-object relation

Let see this. The though is made of awareness and it is aware of it. Ok, I can see that there is no subject-object relation in this case.

Experience is not divided into a perceiving subject and a perceived object which are connected through an act of perceiving. There is only perceiving.
Can you see this?

Yes, I can see this.... it feels weird ... it felt for a second that “objects" which seem to be so tangible are unreal like my thoughts. I had to almost shake myself as it felt a bit like going insane when seeing this. I want to look at this more ...

You don’t have awareness! You’ve never had. You are just a thought. A thought cannot have awareness.
Can you see this? Same as the body.
The body doesn’t have awareness. Quite the opposite. The body is being ‘awared’ / experienced.
Can you see this?

I need to digest this seeing for a bit longer. I will write more about it tomorrow.

For ten minutes, write what is happening just as usual, using "I". I am typing, I am sitting, I am drinking a cup of tea. I am breathing.

When ten minutes is up, switch to writing what is happening without using I. Typing. Sitting. Drinking tea. Breathing.

At the end of the 20 minutes, notice the difference(s) between the two lists.

Is one true-er than the other? How did it feel to write them? Was there a difference in feeling?
Was there any difference at all in how life showed up writing with or without "I"?
(Please copy here both of the unedited texts.)

It was a fun to do this exercise in my busy office today. Yes, writing both texts felt different. First one felt like writing from the perspective of someone in the center who has a one-sided view of what is happening. Writing the other text felt much more objective, full of actions experienced via 5 senses ,thinking and feeling, it felt very alive, simple, straightforward, neutral. It seems only to be the experience of perceiving.

I am hearing the noise form outside, I am hearing people talking, I am typing , I am sitting, I am touching this keyboard, I am hearing the sound of macroway, I am hearing someone entering the room, I am hearing the mobile phone calling, I am seeing my colleague who is looking at the wall, I am hearing my colleague talking to J, I am looking and seeing many objects in the room. I am hearing J. talking, I am looking at A, I am taking to my colleague, I am hearing A, I am hearing and seeing someone cleaning the floor. I am seeing A.I am talking to my colleagues and I am talking over the phone.

Hearing E, hearing G, hearing A, typing, hearing laugh, seeing M, looking at the office, hearing J., seeing, looking at the floor, hearing R., laughing, looking, seeing, seeing, thinking, listening, feeling, looking at keyboard, seeing thoughts appearing, hearing printer, touching keyboard, seeing hands, fingers, , looking at screen, hearing A., typing, looking around, seeing a colleague collecting something, looking at timer, seeing , feeling contraction in the chest, seeing the picture, thinking about , hearing, seeing, looking, observing, feeling contraction, looking, feeling, thinking, touching, listening to E, smiling, talking, feeling hunger, touching, touching face, hearing E., listening, listening, talking, asking, listening, breathing, feeling, waiting,

Much love

Divya

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Divya,

I can completely see untrustworthiness of thoughts. It just amazes me how much space they are taking in my life. Despite the fact that I see this they are arising so plentifully and getting the attention.

That is just the way it is with thought,they arise plentifully as long as belief that the content is real and 'serious'.Thoughts are as relevant as the hum of the fridge. The 'aim' is not to get rid of thoughts because is that not just another thought? Allowing them to be and if you 'get lost in thoughts' that's ok too :)
Please do the following exercise:
In the next 24 hours in the all waking hours try to observe the gaps between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done but noticing that thinking is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Please report back how it went.

I am not sure what to call This in which everything appears. Is this important? I hear people using different words and I get confused what they all mean. I hear words: consciousness, awareness, knowing, oneness, speciousness, Absolute, Nothing, Emptiness, Beingness etc. I assume they point at the same direction but I still get confused if they mean the same thing. When I used the word Presence I was referring to something what is difficult to describe by qualities and yes it is like a background/screen in which everything appears.

No, it's not important what you call it as it just a label for This which as you've said is difficult to describe.
What qualities does This have i.e gender,age,size etc?
All labels are indeed pointing one awareness that is not a thing or object.

Can you please guide me through this expression a bit further so I can be clear on this. I don’t seem to understand word awareness. How the word – awareness is different in its expression from the screen or background in which everything appears.So, if I say that thoughts are appearing in awareness I suggest separation as there are two things : awareness and thoughts. If I say awareness appear as thoughts I suggest sameness.

That last sentence you wrote is bang on :) Awareness appears as thoughts and is the same. Awareness is not different from the screen or background in which every appears.
In language there is assumption that there must be a subject (me) that is doing or having the object (thoughts). But this assumption is coming only from language, in the actual experience there is neither subject nor object that could be found.
We say “It’s raining” – where is this ‘it’? Water is simply falling. Or, “The wind is blowing” – can you find ‘the wind’ or is it just air moving? We also say “I’m thinking” – but is there really an ‘I’ that is doing something or are thoughts simply arising? Have a look and see.

What is raining the rain?
What is blowing the wind?
There is no subject (rain) that is doing the raining (object). There is ONLY raining. When there is raining there is rain, because rain = raining.
There is no subject (wind) that is doing (blowing) the winding (object). There is ONLY winding or blowing. When there is a wind there is winding, because wind = winding.
There is no subject (thought) that is doing the thinking (object). There is ONLY thinking. When there is a thought there is thinking, because thought = thinking.
The supposed subject and object are inseparable. They are one.

What is the point of view of awareness referring to? I am assuming if they observed by the separate self.

Assuming meaning thought is saying they are observed by the separate self? Look again and see if this is the case :)

Let see this. The though is made of awareness and it is aware of it. Ok, I can see that there is no subject-object relation in this case.

:) Is there any experience when this is not the case?

Yes, I can see this.... it feels weird ... it felt for a second that “objects" which seem to be so tangible are unreal like my thoughts. I had to almost shake myself as it felt a bit like going insane when seeing this. I want to look at this more ...

Yes it does seem a bit 'insane' when this is seen ha ha. Look at this as much as needed for clarity.

I need to digest this seeing for a bit longer. I will write more about it tomorrow.

Sweet as :)

It was a fun to do this exercise in my busy office today. Yes, writing both texts felt different. First one felt like writing from the perspective of someone in the center who has a one-sided view of what is happening. Writing the other text felt much more objective, full of actions experienced via 5 senses ,thinking and feeling, it felt very alive, simple, straightforward, neutral. It seems only to be the experience of perceiving.

I am hearing the noise form outside, I am hearing people talking, I am typing , I am sitting, I am touching this keyboard, I am hearing the sound of macroway, I am hearing someone entering the room, I am hearing the mobile phone calling, I am seeing my colleague who is looking at the wall, I am hearing my colleague talking to J, I am looking and seeing many objects in the room. I am hearing J. talking, I am looking at A, I am taking to my colleague, I am hearing A, I am hearing and seeing someone cleaning the floor. I am seeing A.I am talking to my colleagues and I am talking over the phone.

Hearing E, hearing G, hearing A, typing, hearing laugh, seeing M, looking at the office, hearing J., seeing, looking at the floor, hearing R., laughing, looking, seeing, seeing, thinking, listening, feeling, looking at keyboard, seeing thoughts appearing, hearing printer, touching keyboard, seeing hands, fingers, , looking at screen, hearing A., typing, looking around, seeing a colleague collecting something, looking at timer, seeing , feeling contraction in the chest, seeing the picture, thinking about , hearing, seeing, looking, observing, feeling contraction, looking, feeling, thinking, touching, listening to E, smiling, talking, feeling hunger, touching, touching face, hearing E., listening, listening, talking, asking, listening, breathing, feeling, waiting,

Great! So do you feel like there's 'someone at the center who has a one-sided view of what is happening or like
the experience of perceiving?
And going further is there separation between the experience and perception?


Much love

Tanya

[Divya]

Hi Tanya,

You don’t have awareness! You’ve never had. You are just a thought. A thought cannot have awareness.
Can you see this? Same as the body.
The body doesn’t have awareness. Quite the opposite. The body is being ‘awared’ / experienced.
Can you see this?

“I” thought and any other thoughts don’t have awareness but awareness appears as “I” thought and any other thoughts. So I can say that awareness takes a form of thoughts, feelings, sensations, perception and is seen in awareness. The subject experience itself in various appearances and it is aware of it.

It is well expressed in this common analogy of waves appearing in the ocean. There is only one ocean but many waves which are made from the ocean and appearing as unique form/expression of it. The wave has no awareness by itself but is made of the ocean’s awareness and it can only appear in its awareness.

In the next 24 hours in the all waking hours try to observe the gaps between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done but noticing that thinking is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.
Please report back how it went.

It was/is challenging exercise. I truly take your suggestion about feeling compassion towards myself during this experience. Thoughts are running through the mind, I am noticing few gaps that last only for a few seconds. I notice that gaps last longer when attention goes into activities like: watching, listening, shopping, making phone calls, speaking to someone, completing something, etc… When there is less movement/activities thoughts appear rapidly. I notice only few gaps and chain of thoughts.

What qualities does This have i.e gender,age,size etc?

It is formless, ageless, weightless, without gender, boundless, without the beginning and the end, always present…

In language there is assumption that there must be a subject (me) that is doing or having the object (thoughts). But this assumption is coming only from language, in the actual experience there is neither subject nor object that could be found.
We say “It’s raining” – where is this ‘it’? Water is simply falling. Or, “The wind is blowing” – can you find ‘the wind’ or is it just air moving? We also say “I’m thinking” – but is there really an ‘I’ that is doing something or are thoughts simply arising? Have a look and see.

yes, I can see that language doesn't always (perhaps never) match the actual experiences. I can see how language (thoughts) suggests the belief of the experience but not the actual experience. It is fascinating to check what is really happening and see clearly that real experience are different from what I know of it and how this knowledge is expressed in language. That is so amazing to see no separation confirmed by experiencing . I am digesting this... just one subject in different movements… that is not a small discovery!

So do you feel like there's 'someone at the center who has a one-sided view of what is happening or like the experience of perceiving?

There is no one in the center and the center is not located but experience is happening. This experience can appear as someone in the center who has a one-side view of what is happening. What a fun! I like these little games.

And going further is there separation between the experience and perception?

There is no separation between the experience and perception. The wave is the experience and the ocean is perception of it. The wave is experienced/perceived by the ocean. The wave, the ocean, the experience and perception are one.

much love

Divya

[tanyawilliams86]

Hi Divya,

“I” thought and any other thoughts don’t have awareness but awareness appears as “I” thought and any other thoughts. So I can say that awareness takes a form of thoughts, feelings, sensations, perception and is seen in awareness. The subject experience itself in various appearances and it is aware of it.

It is well expressed in this common analogy of waves appearing in the ocean. There is only one ocean but many waves which are made from the ocean and appearing as unique form/expression of it. The wave has no awareness by itself but is made of the ocean’s awareness and it can only appear in its awareness.

:) Wow,that's some wonderful looking. Sounds like you're very clear on this.

It was/is challenging exercise. I truly take your suggestion about feeling compassion towards myself during this experience. Thoughts are running through the mind, I am noticing few gaps that last only for a few seconds. I notice that gaps last longer when attention goes into activities like: watching, listening, shopping, making phone calls, speaking to someone, completing something, etc… When there is less movement/activities thoughts appear rapidly. I notice only few gaps and chain of thoughts.

I'm glad you 'did' the exercise with a compassionate view towards yourself, although judgment can and does arise too and that's ok also because you can look at 'what is judgment in actual experience?'. This exercise was not about stopping thoughts but establishing experientially that there's no 'thinker' controlling which thoughts arise or when there's no thoughts. It's all very spontaneous isn't it?
And with the stories that come up you can look at them also. Thoughts can seem compelling but are they really?
As you've seen the actual experience of life is much richer and undoubtedly real than a thought.
Do you have any doubts that you've seen through the illusion of the separate self?

It is formless, ageless, weightless, without gender, boundless, without the beginning and the end, always present…

Yes, that's why it's quite indescribable and words are only pointers to what is, to reality :)

yes, I can see that language doesn't always (perhaps never) match the actual experiences. I can see how language (thoughts) suggests the belief of the experience but not the actual experience. It is fascinating to check what is really happening and see clearly that real experience are different from what I know of it and how this knowledge is expressed in language. That is so amazing to see no separation confirmed by experiencing . I am digesting this... just one subject in different movements… that is not a small discovery!

Yes seeing no separation is an 'enormous' discovery indeed :)
We can look further in the reality of the body which will help with establishing what's been seen.
1.Close the eyes and hold up one of the hands. Pay attention only to the felt sensations ‘of the hand’.
2.Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3.While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.
Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…
Normally we believe that the sensation is coming from the sight, the object seen (hand).
But actually, is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

There is no one in the center and the center is not located but experience is happening. This experience can appear as someone in the center who has a one-side view of what is happening. What a fun! I like these little games.

He he yes what fun :) So it's only an appearance that there is someone at the center, a thought that there's someone one at the center. Do thoughts know anything? Can thoughts do anything?

There is no separation between the experience and perception. The wave is the experience and the ocean is perception of it. The wave is experienced/perceived by the ocean. The wave, the ocean, the experience and perception are one.

Could it be that experience and perception are one and the same?
If you look at the senses i.e touching,tasting,smelling etc is the experience of hearing the same as perceiving or is there a difference?

much love

Tanya

[tanyawilliams86]

you are not the experiencer of experience
you are not the observer of experience
you are not the witness of experience

you *are* experience itself. and there is no difference between experience and that which is aware of experience.


they are one and the same.

look now - do you find anything present other than experience? isn't a witness, an observer, an experiencer, just an idea?

a fiction...

there is just what is - just you without a separate self <3

Love Tanya

[Divya]

Hi Tanya,

I am very sorry for posting so late today. Here are my responses just to 2 pointers. I will write more tomorrow.

Although judgment can and does arise too and that's ok also because you can look at 'what is judgment in actual experience?'

Thank you for pointing into looking at judgment in actual experiences. The experience feels different after seeing this. There are still so many thoughts arising , stories, judgment and yet something feels different.

Thoughts can seem compelling but are they really?
As you've seen the actual experience of life is much richer and undoubtedly real than a thought.
Do you have any doubts that you've seen through the illusion of the separate self?

Thoughts seem compelling to no one. I see their force right now, no control over it, judgment and it seems to be the way it is. Yes, I’ve seen that the actual experience of life has an absolute easiness, even in the middle of “challenging” experience. No, I have no doubts that I seen through the illusion of the separate self.

I am looking forward to share more reflection on my experiences tomorrow.

Much love

Divya