Looking for a guide

[Josephkoudelka]

I cannot find the location of that knowing. The more I try, the more I find it impossible. It is as I was one centimeter close to a huge screen and I was trying to look at the entire screen.

Yes. To find either a beginning or end to knowing is not possible. Whatever is found is only more knowing. Even if there is a gap in knowing, the gap is known.

We ve been thaught to believe that Thought can grasp everything but I am realizing that there is something bigger than any possible thought. there is, on the contrary, something that contains all possible thoughts

Look at thought again. can a thought be grasped? or is this another thought?

[cristabella2]

I cannot control thoughts. even when they re tidy and coherent I suspect it is not because of me organizing them but because the function intelligence has this quality as much as every other element of reality has its own qualities. Now I understand better your previous explanation when you mentioned the "quality of intelligence". I have a question: Would you share with me your experience of crashing the gate? What made the very last resistence disappearing ? I feel so close and at the same time so far from it ...

[Josephkoudelka]

I have a question: Would you share with me your experience of crashing the gate? What made the very last resistence disappearing ? I feel so close and at the same time so far from it ...

I crashed the gate many times, most notably beginning in 1994 when penetrating the koan "Mu" while studying under a Rinzai Zen Master. I went on to complete the Mumonkan and most of the Hekiganroku over the next 10 years with him. The problem that I remained stuck with while studying Zen was that it was taught there was both the relative and absolute level of reality, with an emphasis on the relative level after realization. The relative level accepts that there is a separate self. However, the longer I sat in meditation, and continued self inquiry, I began to doubt the teachings of present day Zen. Mainly because I still continued to suffer. The teaching of 'no self' always went something along the lines of, "yes, there is no self but..."

In the end it became clear that there is no self at any time ever. That whenever it is looked for that it is never to be found as a concrete physical material entity. It only exists conceptually.

When I came to LU, I came thinking I was clear about no self, but obviously not completely clear. I suffered over the notion that I was a mind that could analyze itself, and sometimes I did not like my own thoughts. A mind is still a self.

Somehow, through grace and the help of a guide, I clearly saw that every instance of a self is only a thought and that I was not the chooser of thoughts. Thoughts just happen. Decisions just happen. A witness of decisions and thoughts and experience is just another thought. This whole thing, whatever it is, is just happening. It seems to be intelligent. It seems to know. But ultimately every single moment just happens how it happens. I can point to this from the knowing quality of every moment but the knowing is not an object of itself. It is just that all that happens is known in and of itself without any reason that can be known. It is a mystery.

How do you expect life would like if you were clear that there is no self? Describe that.

[cristabella2]

I expect feelings to be exactly the same; there will still be both happiness and sadness but there will not be the suffering, because the feeling will just happen and will not happen to anybody. I imagine life to be more vibrant because instead of being identified with thoughts I could be completely immersed in life, in fact there is nobody being immersed but it is just being part of life. I see it as a releasing, fusional kind of movement.

thank you for sharing your experience. true, every single moment has an intelligence in itself and that intelligence seems to be the only subject. everything there is indeed.

[Josephkoudelka]

I expect feelings to be exactly the same; there will still be both happiness and sadness but there will not be the suffering, because the feeling will just happen and will not happen to anybody. I imagine life to be more vibrant because instead of being identified with thoughts I could be completely immersed in life, in fact there is nobody being immersed but it is just being part of life. I see it as a releasing, fusional kind of movement.

We all have expectations regarding realization or clear seeing of no self. Still, everything happens how it happens, meaning that every expectation is a thought, and thoughts just happen. The thought, "I am identified with thought" may continue for some time. Yet, if really seen through, the knowledge of no self does seem to take the sting out of it... it becomes hard to believe any thought as an absolute or relative. Any kind of thought can happen.

In the beginning there may be thoughts that this is just an intellectual understanding, and that is just another thought. All understanding occurs in a timeless instant. When anything is understood, the understanding occurs instantaneously. All understanding is only actualized and known as an object of thought. Don't be fooled with this nonsense about non-intellectual understanding being different than an intellectual understanding, it is all rubbish. Any understanding that one has in this particular moment may be superseded by another understanding at any time.

That said though, there seems to be an aha moment of understanding that takes the energy out of seeking, and doubting.

Here at LU we are pointing to the undeniable fact that a self cannot be found. For something to be exist absolutely, it must not be changing, coming into appearance and dissolving away in time. The very nature of temporality, of any thing being temporary, means that the thing has a beginning, and end, in time. If it disappears, how can that be me, the knower of that changing sensory data. Whether it be a thought, feeling or primary sense datum, it is an object of knowledge, and as such, temporary. A thought is completely gone, destroyed, every moment of thought. How could I be a thought, or series of thought? I never have an experience of non existence.

There is nothing you can point to that is a findable candidate for a individual self. Please look directly into your experience now. See if you can find any candidate for a limited entity called a self. Describe that.

[cristabella2]

There is nothing you can point to that is a findable candidate for a individual self. Please look directly into your experience now. See if you can find any candidate for a limited entity called a self. Describe that.

there are points in my physical body where feelings seems to converge. In the solar plexus, there is for instance a subtle and feeling which I can find all the time I pay attention to it, it is like a subtle pain always with me. I think I tend to identify a lot with it. Also, that feeling brings me inside the body and reinforce the identification with something inside the boundaries of physical bodies. There is a universe of feelings, thoughts, memories, beliefs and it is within the boundaries of my skin. outside, it is the outside world. I know that it is a false belief but still do not manage go through it.

That said though, there seems to be an aha moment of understanding that takes the energy out of seeking, and doubting.

This seems to reinforce the idea that life is intelligent but also that seeking (e.g. meditating) has anyway a role in crashing the gate as somehow our efforts of evolving from a spiritual standpoint (whatever this means for each one of us seekers) are maybe not necessary but somehow "prepares" the leap. In other words: seeking will not lead to liberation but is liberation possible without seeking?

Any understanding that one has in this particular moment may be superseded by another understanding at any time

I understand this as follows: even if I am absolutely persuaded by now that there is no Self, until I do not actually overcome the separation I might stop to believe that at any time. Please correct me if you meant something different

[Josephkoudelka]

In the solar plexus, there is for instance a subtle and feeling which I can find all the time I pay attention to it, it is like a subtle pain always with me. I think I tend to identify a lot with it. Also, that feeling brings me inside the body and reinforce the identification with something inside the boundaries of physical bodies.

This statement demonstrates the difference between seeing and believing. We like to use the term "Look" at LU. Too look is to see. When we look directly at our sensations, all sensations, being experienced now, there are no inside or outside sensations. The difference between inside and outside is a thought claiming that such a division exists. The actual experience is quite different than the thought *about* the sensation. Don't believe me, look. Look at the sensations that thought labels solar plexus and describe the actual sensation itself.

Any understanding that one has in this particular moment may be superseded by another understanding at any time

I understand this as follows: even if I am absolutely persuaded by now that there is no Self, until I do not actually overcome the separation I might stop to believe that at any time. Please correct me if you meant something different

First and foremost, I am not interested in persuading you. Look for yourself. The previous request to look at actual sensations rather than thoughts *about* sensations brings to light where our perception is mistaken.

Secondly, that is what I am saying - any understanding expressed, is a thought, a conceptual model, subject to change. As for the direct perception of experience in this moment, it may include thoughts *about* experience, but the experience the thought attempts to categorize is never found directly in the sensory data of the moment. Look!

Being fully present now, where is any division in the direct experience of perceiving this moment? How far away is seeing from hearing during the total perception of Now?

[cristabella2]

Look at the sensations that thought labels solar plexus and describe the actual sensation itself.

It is like a contraction, it is burning, it is alive and sometime expands reaching the throat.

As for the direct perception of experience in this moment, it may include thoughts *about* experience, but the experience the thought attempts to categorize is never found directly in the sensory data of the moment. Look

!

Something occurs and a second LATER the thought comment on it. It is the same for feelings, thoughts, everything.

Being fully present now, where is any division in the direct experience of perceiving this moment? How far away is seeing from hearing during the total perception of Now?

Hearing and seeing seem to be made of the same "matter". I cannot find any distance between them.

I feel that life is just happening, however I still have the feeling that there is someone deciding whether to focus on something specific. Eg.: you asked me too look at the present moment and there seems to be someone taking the decision to focus on that. It is as reality was happening but I had the power to decide where to point the torch of my attention at.

[Josephkoudelka]

It is like a contraction, it is burning, it is alive and sometime expands reaching the throat.

Please perform the exercise below. It has two parts. Do part 1 for a few minutes then move directly into part 2. Make sure a mirror is present where you perform the exercise, one that allows you to see most of your body and the room you're in is best but any mirror will do.

1a. Become mindfully aware of the present moment.

1b. Notice the senses.

1c. Visit each one momentarily - seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting.

1d. Notice the seamless totality of experience now.

1e. Now bring the attention to the contracting burning expanding sensation you described above.

1f. Allow your attention to wander from the sensation to seeing hearing sensing ect.

1g. Return to the contracting burning expanding sensation from time to time.

1h. Allow whatever thoughts that arise to be there without resistance.

1i. Alternate between 1f and 1g for a few minutes. Stay present.


2a. Now look in a mirror and really notice the reflection of your body and the surroundings.

2b. While looking at your face in the mirror, speak aloud, stating - "I am this body, this face, this solar plexus."

2c. Mindfully check in to the present moment and notice the aliveness of the entire field of perception.

2d. Now do these last two lines of the exercise(2b 2c) alternating between the two several times or until you become disoriented.

Describe what you experienced.

[cristabella2]

Dear Joseph

Sorry but it is taking me some time to complete this exercise. I had to try several times before being able to reach the last step and still I feel that I should insist more. I get distracted very easily by thoughts, especially in the part where I look at the mirror. Feeling a bit frustrated about it.

Anyway, these are my insights after several attempts

First Part of the Exercise (Focusing on one sense at a t time and then trying to enlarge my awareness to the whole field of perception): I feel that space is expanding but at the same time I feel as all my perceptions (sound, colors, smells…) in fact were contained in a infinitely small and dimensionless point.

Second part of the exercise (repeating I am this face, this body, this solar plexus) and looking the borders of my body in a mirror: this part was a bit more problematic and is where I got a bit stuck. The more I repeat the phrase and the more I look at the borders of my body , the more I have a funny feeling as there was not real division among my body and the space around it. As I was looking at a sort of special effect which doesn t look that real anymore. HOWEVER, I had to stop much before getting disoriented because it was not a pleasant feeling and every time I was overwhelmed by thoughts and eventually had to stop

I think I need some more days to go deeper into this exercise.

[Josephkoudelka]

....enlarge my awareness to the whole field of perception

Awareness doesn't belong to a self. You can't make it larger or smaller. Go ahead and look again, at anything, and ask yourself, outloud, "where does awareness begin or end?" Try and find a boundary for awareness. Describe what you experienced.

The more I repeat the phrase and the more I look at the borders of my body , the more I have a funny feeling as there was not real division among my body and the space around it

Now we are getting somewhere. Any division you can find is only a thought claiming a division exists. This division is never experienced. It is not there. Just like Awareness. No division anywhere. How could you perceive anything if awareness or apperception of a form was not already existent?

[cristabella2]

Try and find a boundary for awareness. Describe what you experienced.

This cannot be done, I cannot find any boundary.

How could you perceive anything if awareness or apperception of a form was not already existent?

this pointer is working very well, thanks for this. there is a space within which everything happens, this space seems to contain all elements of reality , in fact there is no distinction between this space and the elements. it seems that the matter everything is made of is the same.

I will be traveling tonight for a week time and will possibly have some difficulties in accessing internet. I ll go on and focus on these two last pointers in the next days. Thanks from the bottom of my heart

[Josephkoudelka]

OK. Enjoy your trip.

[cristabella2]

Dear Joseph,

hello! I am back home and ready to start again with the self inquiry if you have some time for me. I m a bit stuck and got pretty lost into "outer world" while traveling. Pointers like the ones you gave me earlier are extremely important, they seem to work as bells resonating with something very deep, like an antique memory. It is very helpful to know that other persons are asking themselves the same question, maybe because it is so difficult to even put in words the question itself; I really thank you and the other guides in the forum for the work you are doing for all of us.

[Josephkoudelka]

At this moment, what stands in the way of recognizing the illusion of self?