Seeking a Guide

[AndrewGBL]

Tyler, this is interesting. After all these years of meditation and reading and whatnot, I've never taken this time to just look. To keep looking. I almost don't know what to say right now because I'm transfixed in trying to find what's clearly not there. It's a bit amazing right now. There's just nobody home, only the clear awareness that the "I" is being injected into everything, like an additive. For example, I've been going through each sense...did "I" create this sense? Did "I" architect sight? Awareness? This brain in the skull?

No. No. No. It just goes on. And if this "I" gets no credit for anything in reality and creation--how is it the owner of anything?

This is sort of fun. More later. Thank you.

[AndrewGBL]

Tyler, this is interesting. After all these years of meditation and reading and whatnot, I've never taken this time to just look. To keep looking. I almost don't know what to say right now because I'm transfixed in trying to find what's clearly not there. It's a bit amazing right now. There's just nobody home, only the clear awareness that the "I" is being injected into everything, like an additive. For example, I've been going through each sense...did "I" create this sense? Did "I" architect sight? Awareness? This brain in the skull?

No. No. No. It just goes on. And if this "I" gets no credit for anything in reality and creation--how is it the owner of anything?

This is sort of fun. More later. Thank you.

[Tyler]

Yes! It so simple. What you're saying seems to imply that something has changed. What is different? Would you say you have seen through the illusion of self?

Let's keep going to look for the self in as many ways as possible. This may cause some "stuckness" to emerge. If so, we will welcome it as something new to shine the light of awareness on it. I'll write some questions below. You may have already answered them, but go into more detail about your experience.

You mentioned that you have been scanning through your senses. Do it again. In direct experience, can you find an “I” that experiences experience? Is there a seer separate from the seen? Is there a hearer that hears? Feeler of what is felt? etc.

Also, now that you are seeing more clearly, answer this: what does the word "I" or "me" point to, here and now?" Basically, when you say "I", what does that refer to in direct experience? Please describe in detail – does
it have a shape? A size? A quality? Can it be measured?

Thanks!

[AndrewGBL]

Hi Tyler,

Yes, there is "stuckness" as you mentioned. It takes two forms.

1. The "self" reasserting itself through disbelief: "It can't be so. It can't be this simple, without struggle, effort, devotion, etc." And in this case the sense of "I" is pretty much what it's always been, but there's a knowing now--a watching to see this thought pattern maneuver into a hidden corner where it can reassert through some thought form, feeling, or argument about agency when I stare right at it.

2. And I'd say the sense of coherent "I"-agency is what's got the whole operation glued together. Or at least upon first impressions.

Watching these thoughts operate is like watching some shapeshifting thing dissolve in one corner to just pop up in another corner in another form, voice, or sense.

So, I keep coming back to the questions when this happens--the qualities you've mentioned: shape, size, quality--but nothing to be found there. At best the "I" operation seems hinged by thoughts, which seem to imply a thinker, and here's where I find the most interesting aspect. The question comes up for instance, when I think, "I must be here, how do I move my hands if not?" This is the agency I'm speaking of: will.

Who then wills this? Who wills the hands to type?

But it's clearer now that this is process and doesn't imply a doer. The whole question is a fallacy, totally unnecessary because it's based on the assumption that some-"one" or some-"thing" is what must be doing, acting, seeing, etc. We're taught that we do these things from birth.

Nothing to be found. Keeping up the investigation.

[Tyler]

Who then wills this? Who wills the hands to type?

What is the I that is asking these questions?

At best the "I" operation seems hinged by thoughts, which seem to imply a thinker, and here's where I find the most interesting aspect.

Spend some time noticing thoughts arise. Do you know what your next thought will be before you think it?

The question comes up for instance, when I think, "I must be here, how do I move my hands if not?" This is the agency I'm speaking of: will.

Keep testing this and tell me what is noticed. Here's an example: get up and walk slowly. Is there are controller that controls walking—a walker? Or is there just walking?

[Tyler]

Hey Andy,
It would help our work if you posted more frequently. How's it going?

[AndrewGBL]

Hi Tyler,

I suppose it was only time before I had to confront my competing desires. I can see most clearly now how the busyness of life derails me from serious inquiry. I'm at the search for this "self" daily still, but clearly I'm not keeping up my end of the deal. On the inquiry side, I continue to find no self at all, just the verbs: thinking, doing, smelling, tasting, etc., without any self behind them. There's stuckness, to use your words, around the agency part. Seems this is very deep-rooted. The idea that there's some-one as the source or recipient of experience. I'm curious at what point the obvious conclusion of searching transfers to something deeply set. Do we continue looking until we cross some point? What is that point?

[Tyler]

Andy Andy Andy...

You are still doing this own your own. It seems as if your mind is diverting attention away from answering the questions I pose. The questions I ask are the pointing. They guide the inquiry. Let me help you. Please answer the questions so I can read the responses and ask more questions to point you where to look next. I'm going to paste the questions from my last post:

Who then wills this? Who wills the hands to type?

What is the I that is asking these questions?

At best the "I" operation seems hinged by thoughts, which seem to imply a thinker, and here's where I find the most interesting aspect.

Spend some time noticing thoughts arise. Do you know what your next thought will be before you think it?

The question comes up for instance, when I think, "I must be here, how do I move my hands if not?" This is the agency I'm speaking of: will.

Keep testing this and tell me what is noticed. Here's an example: get up and walk slowly. Is there are controller that controls walking—a walker? Or is there just walking?


Also, in your last post you asked:

Do we continue looking until we cross some point? What is that point?

This is the mind looking for an answer so that it can build an expectation about what is supposed to happen. Expectations are no good here and can hinder our work. My lips are sealed!

Take care and answer, answer, answer.

[AndrewGBL]

Hi Tyler,

Yes...I'm diverting the process by thinking I know how to best do this and I don't. In my next post I will answer the questions you've asked without trying to steer the course elsewhere. Thanks for catching my tactics before I've even really caught them!

[AndrewGBL]

Hi Tyler,

To your questions:

What is the I that is asking these questions?

I don't know anymore. I want to say 'me', and right now I'm on the verge of tears because that 'me' voice is pouring out memories...so many memories of what I thought was my life. Very emotional night here. I'm sorry. That 'me' voice is almost like a child's. So little in a world beyond its power to control. I don't know what's happening here.

Do you know what your next thought will be before you think it?

Impossible. I see that now. If I knew, then that would be my next thought. All I can do is think, "what's my next thought?" and that then is the next thought. I want to know who's doing this...all this thinking. There's some feeling freaked out about it to be honest.

get up and walk slowly. Is there are controller that controls walking—a walker? Or is there just walking?

Again, no. Nothing there but walking. The world is just fucking verbs yet this "I" can't seem to let go.

This is all I got tonight. This is honest.

Over to you...

[AndrewGBL]

I know you're the guide here, but really, if there's no self...what is this? Isn't this just a one-sided conversation? Me talking to me? No...just talking to talking?

I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

[Tyler]

Looks like some strong feelings have surfaced. That’s something that often happens as you look deeper. I suspect fear at as the root of this response. That’s good. It shows us where to look. I say we look right at it. Let’s use it.

Fear is a natural protection mechanism within the body. In this case, the mechanism is triggered by the body, as the mind is interpreting your inquiry as a potential threat. The mind is afraid that something could be lost—you.

so many memories of what I thought was my life.

If there is no self, that means there never was a self and there never will be. The mind is saying something can be lost, but the reality is there never was a self that could’ve been lost. You said you read Gateless Gatecrashers a while back. Maybe you remember it talking about Santa Claus. When you learned Santa wasn’t real (considering you used to believe in Santa), did Santa disappear? Was he destroyed? No, he just wasn’t believed to be real anymore. Did Santa change as a result of dropping the belief. No. He was just viewed differently. Nothing changes when the self is seen as illusory. Will you lose all the memories? No way. They are still there. I know they are still there because you said you see them. Life often goes on like it always has because nothing is lost.

Spend time with this fear and don’t reject it. Look at it and accept is as it is, as a teacher. Find where in the body the fear is felt. Just let it be, respect it. As you do, notice how the mind paints a picture of there being two parts to the experience. First it says there is a you, a feeler, that is separate from the fearful feelings. It also says the feelings are negatively affecting you. Let’s test that interpretation. Next, look for the point where you, the feeler, ends and the feeling begins. Likewise, look for where the feeling ends and the feeler begin. Can that point of separation be found? Can you find a self that the fear is trying to protect? Can you find a feeler that is feeling the sensation? Do this a few times and tell me what is noticed. (By the way, you can do this with any kind of emotion, even one’s the mind deems desirable)

Now, let me reply to some things you said:

I want to say 'me', and right now I'm on the verge of tears because that 'me' voice is pouring out memories...so many memories of what I thought was my life.

Notice how memories are thoughts. Also notice how you can see the memoires, how you can hear them, and how you can hear the me-voice. If you can see them and hear them, why say they are you? Notice how the mind is being useful here by showing you different, changing concepts of self. These are self-images, not a genuine self. All images and concepts are thoughts, even self-images and self-concepts. How could any thought ever be you? Let the mind show you how it creates thought-based concepts about you. Write is noticed when the mind is observe in this way.

If I knew, then that would be my next thought. All I can do is think, "what's my next thought?" and that then is the next thought. I want to know who's doing this...all this thinking.

Why must there be a thinker? Why could it not be that thinking just happens? Thinking happens either way right, whether it’s you doing it or not?

I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

Feel free to do both. Let me leave you with a word of advice: Take it easy. This type of looking can be a wild ride, and I find it can be taken too seriously. Looking can happen just as easily with a gentle, compassionate, relaxed gaze rather than a piercing glare. Just be at ease and allow everything to unfold as it should and don’t resist things that come up along the way. It’s hard to release something if you are obsessing over it. Try relaxing and giving the inquiry some space so the belief in self can drop on its own.

P.S. Thanks for the honesty.

[AndrewGBL]

Done. Bless you. Bless you. You friend. I love you!!!

If the knot maker never existed, the knot never existed.

I love you Tyler. Friend.

[Tyler]

There was lots of love in the last post. What's going on?

[AndrewGBL]

Tyler,

It's so simple. Effortless ease. No path. It came down to now or never. No glorious moment needed to arrive.

Your kindness and acute guidance helped me just finally look, look again, and admit that this 'Andy' was illusion and was spinning tales, trying to control outcomes, set up ideal future states--never willing to rest in the THE MOST OBVIOUS THING...this!

But the tales all collapsed early this morning when Andy did. I don't know what to say. I have no more questions. No road because there was never a searcher or traveller. Fuck, there's not even a road anymore.

Even this--this is a conversation in emptiness. Nobody home and reeds blowing in the wind.

Yes, there was an experience, subtle at first, that NOTHING was looking out of "my" eyes. Andy then receded and realized that life was just doing itself. Observing itself. A gearwork to behold with nobody to get credit, take blame, or be memorialized. Anatta. No Andy, no Buddha, and only a Bhodi tree remains--the physical world in splendid motion.

As St. Francis said, "What you are looking for is what's looking". Wow.

What's typing now? What sees this? What looks out the window? Done. Over and out.

And so--presto. No knot to untie because the knot maker was a fake. What "this life" is, who knows? All the figurings, fumblings, thoughts and yes, hurts, originated from some unknown void and so return to it. There's just watching.

I am air. Less than air. Aware.

I thank you, but I now now. You are me. And, me? You.

And without a "me", there is no separation. Nothing to bump Andy up to as different or detached. No Andy, no separation--never been otherwise.

Blessings. And oh, I'd love to hear what happened, or never happened to Tyler if you care to share it.

Andy