Requesting Delma as guide.

[dsm2015]

Oops! Sorry. In this moment, right now, this morning, neither! Last night when I wrote the previous response, it was the fatigue. But throughout each work day, both the physical and mental scenarios as I have described them come and go.

[Delma]

The physical and mental scenarios come and go, yes.

To whom are those scenarios happening? Right now, point to the self that is experiencing the physical symptoms.

Physically point to it.

Delma

[dsm2015]

Cannot be done. There is no 'thing' that is me. Just aware presence.

[dsm2015]

Is this all there is to "no self"...not being a 'thing'? I already know that. So I guess I'm confusing feelings and other appearances as constituting 'me'. There is only ever the experiencing. What else could there be?

[Delma]

Yes, there is identification with feelings and other appearances.

But. The problem you may be running into is the because you immediately move to "I know that", you may not be doing the actually inquiry to make it experiential. That's a common stumbling block. Another is to try to reason this out in the mind. That won't ever work.

What we need to do here is to put aside what is known and explore as though it's the first time you've seen the questions. That's really very important. Without that, this can't be experienced as true, merely believed or not believed to be true. And that's what LU does. Move the needle from "I know this" to "This is irrevocably true of reality". The saying that once this is seen it cannot be unseen comes from that unshakeable understanding that the truth is a fact.

We are only ever looking for facts of reality, but not knowledge of facts of reality. So, you'll need to put the teachings aside because they so far haven't worked. They won't work until this can be experienced with certainty and that's the path we're headed down.

Are you willing to put aside those teachings and explore the questions and inquiries no matter how elementary or repetitive they may be? And without anticipation of where I'm taking the inquiry?

We need that, and 100% honesty as well as a desire to know the truth of reality in an experiential way. That, and trust. There needs to be trust in the guide and the process.

Are you ready for that? If so, can you revisit the question and really look for that "aware presence"? What does it belong to? (And please search for it rather than take the answer that immediately comes to mind).

[dsm2015]

OK! Point taken. I do trust you and this process. To answer your last question, this aware presence feels like it belongs to the body. The body carries this presence wherever it goes. It is most strongly felt in the eye area. It's also a generalized body sensation.

[Delma]

Thanks!

What does the body belong to?

[dsm2015]

I don't know. I refer to this body as my body. So I guess it belongs to a nebulous me.

[Delma]

Ok. But that nebulous me is what we're looking for.

So.... where is the nebulous me?

[dsm2015]

The nebulous me is found in the thought that I exist. That I exist seems self-evident. So my sense of self has been described as a body sensation and is now more subtly identified as something mental, a thought.

[Delma]

Can you find a thinker of this "me" thought? Really search for it rather than go with the expected answer. Tell me how it appears.

[dsm2015]

The thinker is invisible, inconceivable. Rather there is just thinking happening. Not TO a thinker. The thinker is in the content of thinking, not outside as the originator of thinking. No objective thinker can be found.

[Delma]

Is this response from your experience when looking? :)

[dsm2015]

Yes I looked and inquired and could find nothing but thinking, no thinker. Thinking arises first, then the I appears as content. So how could I be the thinker if thinking comes before the I content?! I arises later and tries to claim authorship. This is very clear now in experience. Not simply regurgitation. Thanks for checking!

[Delma]

Great work!

If I say that there is no separate self, what comes up? Any resistance to that idea?

What thoughts come to mind when reading that the separate self is no more than illusion?