The Gate

Hi!
I will need more time for this. Thank you.

Yes, take your time, thanks for letting me know.
Rolly

I need time to answer this. Thank you.

Hi! I am very grateful to you for taking your time and help me

The fact that thoughts and feelings turn up without reason is understood. There are no questions about it.

I do not know if I make it more complicated than it needs to be, or if I have missunderstood some of it.
But I'm pretty confused when it comes to that thoughts/fealings/sensations not being there when awareness is not aware of it.

During meditation, awareness can suddenly become aware of the sansations of the breathing, and then become aware of the sensations created in the back against the pillow, and then be aware of the sensatons in the hands. (like scanning the body) Do you mean that when awareness just is aware of the breath, that there is no sensation in the back from the pillow, because awareness is not aware of it? This makes me confused. Cause it feels like the sansations in the back against the pollow should always present, but that awareness is only not aware of it.

Right now when I am righting this I scan my body and feel the sensations from the floor in by feet, and then the sensations fron the hands on the keyboard. Wouldnt the sensations be there if I was not aware of them (If I was daydreaming about next week and not be present in the moment)?


Please help me with this….maby there is a difference between awareness and focus? Sorry if I make this confusing

Can you say that the sensation is “just popping up” and that the sensation didn’t exist before awareness was aware of it?
Is there any past or future! If not, how could anything exist before what just is, the ‘just popping up’? Can anything be separated?

No, there is no past and no future. Only the now. Always now. But again, the example with awareness of different sensations during meditation. If the awareness is not aware of the breath, is there no sensations from the breath?

In our ordinary, accustomed way we tend to believe, that there must be an object and a subject.
Isn’t it freeing to see, how things just happen? Look and see if there’s a reason for things to be popping up? Or does it just happen for no reason with life simply going on?

It feels like things are just popping up for no reason.. It feels like the mind makes a story out of stuff that popps up. But that there is not really any meaning to it.

BTW That’s fabulous questioning of yours! Test it by yourself, go by your direct experience. Look at seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting and thinking – can you draw a line whatsoever? Can it be that the body is just another thought label for sensations?

It feels like there is sound and fealings popping up in a field of awareness. I can not locate that field.

There is no witness, no observer there is only stuff popping up and then disappearing?

Yes, every form of identification is assumed, mostly due to language. Check this out, is it possible that it all happens without an ‘I’ attached?

It hard to see the diference between awarness of stuff and stuff itself. Cause for example there can be thought without the awareness of them, A person can worry about things in the future without being aware of the thoughts being present, Right ?

Is awareness of “stuff happening” (sensations, thoughts etc) and the “stuff happening” itself the same?

Again, great question, Sosho! What is there in direct experience? Is there any sort of differentiation or is there only one happening whatsoever?

Againg its like there can be sensations/thoughts/feelings without the awarenss of them.
For example anxiety without any awareness of anxiety

Again, I am very grateful to you for taking your time and help me. Lots of love!

Hi Sosho

But I'm pretty confused when it comes to that thoughts/fealings/sensations not being there when awareness is not aware of it.

There is seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, tasting and thinking, that all is just happening with no one at the helm. Then there is the mind labelling and stories are born. See if you can find an awareness which is aware of thoughts/feelings and sensations? Or is life just simply popping up with no awareness required?

Wouldnt the sensations be there if I was not aware of them (If I was daydreaming about next week and not be present in the moment)?

Take a fresh look as if you were a child. Don’t look into your thoughts, scan what you observe, notice.
Look at various parts of the body, the feet, the hands, the chest area. Are they doing the looking or are they looked at? And keep going while looking for that elusive observer.
Where is the observer? Can it be seen/touched/felt/sensed? Can it be experienced at all?

Are ‘you’ the observer?
Are ‘you’ the body?

It hard to see the diference between awarness of stuff and stuff itself. Cause for example there <can be thought without the awareness of them, A person can worry about things in the future without being aware of the thoughts being present, Right ?

We already saw that there’s no person, things are just popping up, right? So could we say, that awareness of stuff and stuff, worrying and imagined future are all just things popping up with no control, no thinker, no perceiver, nothing personal?

Best wishes
Rolly

Dear Sohso

Take your time, don't think!

I have to rest tonight, so there's no need of replying today.

Enjoy the evening - if it's evening - or enjoy whatsoever :=)
Rolly

See if you can find an awareness which is aware of thoughts/feelings and sensations? Or is life just simply popping up with no awareness required?

It seems that the thoughts / feelings / sensations simpley pops up. First there was a need to wright that, it pops up into a space of awareness. For lack of a better word. But this space of awarness can only be found in the thoughts and that would only be another thought.

The conclusion is ..Thoughts/ feelings / sensations just pop up for no reason, without anyone being aware or observing them.

It feels strange to leave the concept of awareness.. but there is no direct experience of it so it has to go :)

scan what you observe, notice. Look at various parts of the body, the feet, the hands, the chest area. Are they doing the looking or are they looked at? And keep going while looking for that elusive observer.
Where is the observer? Can it be seen/touched/felt/sensed? Can it be experienced at all?

Are ‘you’ the observer?
Are ‘you’ the body?

They are not doing the looking, Its more like there is only sensation, again without anyone looking. there is only the sensation of differente parts of the body. The "observer" is no were to be found, and no were to be experienced.
Iam not the body
Iam not the observer.. or more like there is no observer to be :)

We already saw that there’s no person, things are just popping up, right? So could we say, that awareness of stuff and stuff, worrying and imagined future are all just things popping up with no control, no thinker, no perceiver, nothing personal?

Yes, the worrying "person" = thoughts about the future is popping up, no thinker no observer.... just thoughts popping up.

Now there is a feeling of satisfaction in the body :)
Thank you...

Hi Sosho

There's definitely some shifting there.

The "observer" is no were to be found, and no were to be experienced.
I am not the body
I am not the observer.. or more like there is no observer to be

Over the next few hours I would like you to investigate how choice and decisions happen. Look at these events as they unfold, in real time, and describe what you see, as plainly as you can. Maybe when you choose to go out or stay in, the ingredients for dinner, what to wear. Give me two examples of any apparent decision-making events.
Ask yourself these questions:

1) As the choice unfolds, can a chooser be experienced? Are ‘you’ the chooser?
2) What factors are taken into consideration when the choice occurs?
3) Is there location of choosing, a choice point?
4) Do thoughts have an influence on what happens?
5) Do thoughts comment on what happens? When, in relation to the event, does the commentary come up?

How is it with intention, free will and control? What do you find?

Looking forward to your replying
Rolly

Hi! Thank you. I will answer tomorow.

Mostly I feel like choices are just made, it does not even feel like it's a choice. Cause it only happens by it self.
No one is in control. It just happens. Mostly without thinking. Suddenly the character and preparing food, then suddenly he stands in the shower. Then he closes the shower tap and bring a towel. It just happens.
There is no choice point cause everything is just one thing, no seperation between two diffirent actions its just one long move. No stops between actions, just one long action.

Does not feel like there's a free will. There is nothing to chose. No person who chooses. It just happens by itself.
Sometomes thoughts pop up after a action, and the thought is trying to inform why that a specific action was done. For example standing and cooking and thinking that "I cook because I'm hungry". This can create the illutionen that it was a choice.

Sometimes it feels as if thoughts pops up before action. For example, the thought "Oops, forgot to email my colleague," then emailing to colleagues. But usually actions happens without thought. It just flows the now.

Lots of love. Thank you. :)

Great Sosho, thanks for your prompt replying!

It seems that you have seen through the illusion of a separate self, yes? Is there anything you would like to cover or uncover at this stage?

I intend to send you the six summing-up questions for a final look. If then we are both ready, I’ll invite other guides to also have a look and confirm your seeing through the illusion. Then you will be invited to join some support groups to share post-gate experiences, deal with any residues that may arise and eventually keep looking further.
Are you ready?

Best wishes
Rolly

Hallo! Thanks for your reply. But there is no understanding of what it means to "seen through the illusion of a separate self" I do not understand what is meant.

When "I" do things it feels like it just happens. There is no feeling of a solid "me" that can be found. But there is no major change in the way things are being related to, than before.

It feels like there is some more work to do. There are several exercises in the Liberationunleashed app. Maybe we'll do some more exercises?

There are probably many thoughts in the head about what "enlightenment" is, and the mind says "I'm not enlighted". There is a understanding that this thoughts is as important as blah blah blah.

As I said, There are several exercises in the Liberationunleashed app. Maybe we'll do some more exercises? Or Maybe you should send me the Six summing-up questions for a final look? It feels like whatever happens happens. have no idea what should happen :)

Lots of love

Hi Sosho

Thanks for your sincere reply.

There are probably many thoughts in the head about what "enlightenment" is, and the mind says "I'm not enlighted".

This enlightment story is a major obstacle, makes seeing through the illusion, seem so nebulous. We’re blinded with years of building up concepts of how enlightment will look or feel like. What follows is a list explaining what this process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.
Let me know what comes up when reading and pondering over these lines.

In your last post it shows that you can’t find an ‘I’ – no chooser, no controller, no free will, - in actual experience, so where is it that you would like to look further for this elusive self?
As always, look in direct experience, no thinking about. Take your time in your own pace.

Sosho, please consider this: When you will have walked through the LU Gate it will by no means be the end of further LOOKING within the LU groups, or with a guide in a dedicated part of the forum, to which only reds and blues have access.

Best wishes
Rolly

Hi !
I will answer this tomorow.

Thanks for the list, some of the thoughts are recognized.

It has been very meaningfull to have these emails konversationer with you. I would really like to continue with guide in a dedicated part of the forum, and keep looking further within the LU group.
Thank you.