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[ElPortal]

Thanks for that Kelvin.

Great!

ii)body is changing and the mind is too。they are always free。body cant care about others. its the mind and it wants to protect the body or make it better. There is no individual. What's the mind? What is communicating?

And what is the body? Anything more than experiences, which suggest a body?

Can any real mind really be found? or just experiencing? Can anything be found to own the thoughts, or are there just the thoughts?

Is there an answer to iii)?

Warmly

Mark

[my journey]

iii) The 'muscle tension': it may come and it may go. But is this part of the aliveness of Life happening or not? Can it be left alone to do as it pleases? To whom or to what is all this happening?

ii) muscle tension comes and goes.it is part of aliveness of Life. just comes & goes. this just happens,not to whom or to what.

Trying to experience experience. Need some time.

[ElPortal]

Hi Kelvin,

Trying to experience experience. Need some time.

Ok, but is it possible that this is not something complicated, but instead was just what we THOUGHT was experiencing the body, experiencing the thinking etc?

Let me know what comes up, then I have another exercise for you.

Cheers

Mark

[my journey]

I mean experience just happens. That's what I can know.

kelvin.

[ElPortal]

Hi Kelvin

Thanks for that response.

Now an exercise about making decisions. It's in two parts:-

1. Put three pens/pencils of different colours on a table in front of you. Sit quietly and notice all that seems to be happening. Now take one of the pens.
Now, consider: was there something there which chose which pen? Was there a choicepoint? Was there an automonous individual there making a choice, or just a flow of life? Please try to describe the process.

2. Then next time you get up in the morning (do this as it happens), please notice the process of choosing clothes for the day. Are there influences in the 'choosing' (availability of certain clothes, cultural inputs, aesthetic influences (eg matching colours, favourite colours), practicalities (what is available and clean for that day), environmental factors (season, weather etc), context (eg what is to be done that day, work, play, sports). Even with what seem to be personal preferences, can it TRULY be said that those were chosen, or might those have been because of various inputs outside of any personal control? Report back to me what you find.

Again, we are looking for a 'separate individual called Kelvin' here, and so far it seems that we are struggling to find one....?

All the best to you

Mark

[my journey]

1. Put three pens/pencils of different colours on a table in front of you. Sit quietly and notice all that seems to be happening. Now take one of the pens.
Now, consider: was there something there which chose which pen? Was there a choicepoint? Was there an automonous individual there making a choice, or just a flow of life? Please try to describe the process.

Three pencils in the front and the middle blue one is chosen. No autonomous individual, just an experience or a flow of life.

2. Then next time you get up in the morning (do this as it happens), please notice the process of choosing clothes for the day. Are there influences in the 'choosing' (availability of certain clothes, cultural inputs, aesthetic influences (eg matching colours, favourite colours), practicalities (what is available and clean for that day), environmental factors (season, weather etc), context (eg what is to be done that day, work, play, sports). Even with what seem to be personal preferences, can it TRULY be said that those were chosen, or might those have been because of various inputs outside of any personal control? Report back to me what you find.

The preferrence not belong to individual , just happening. Feeling cold, then the coat is chosen.

Again, we are looking for a 'separate individual called Kelvin' here, and so far it seems that we are struggling to find one....?

no separate individual called Kelvin. Every thing is part of reality and things perceived are separate. Kelvin is a label and no "I" can be found.

[ElPortal]

Hi Kelvin,

Thanks for those responses.

So, in this forum you gave yourself the screen name: "my journey".
Question: whose journey? Who, or what, is having a journey?

So far, we have not been able to identify any separate individual, have we? Can you find anything there that fits that description?

As you look out through those eyes, and those ears, what is experienced? Is it Kelvin? Is it NOT Kelvin? Can it truly be described?

Please let me know whether you have any other questions.

Cheers

Mark

[ElPortal]

PS you wrote

Every thing is part of reality and things perceived are separate

Please tell me what is perceived as separate? What things are perceived? Are there any real things in this experience?

Cheers

Mark

[my journey]

Hi Kelvin,

Thanks for those responses.

So, in this forum you gave yourself the screen name: "my journey".
Question: whose journey? Who, or what, is having a journey?

So far, we have not been able to identify any separate individual, have we? Can you find anything there that fits that description?

As you look out through those eyes, and those ears, what is experienced? Is it Kelvin? Is it NOT Kelvin? Can it truly be described?

Please let me know whether you have any other questions.

Cheers
Mark

I use "my journey" is a label, just some words. No, not Kelvin. Just experience.

[my journey]

PS you wrote

Every thing is part of reality and things perceived are separate

Please tell me what is perceived as separate? What things are perceived? Are there any real things in this experience?

Cheers

Mark

I mean different forms are separate.Things have properties but I don't know what are the things perceived. I may give them a label or a name.
What do you mean real things? When i perceive it, it exists, when i don't perceive it. I don't know if it exist or not.

[my journey]

Hi Kelvin,

Thanks for those responses.

So, in this forum you gave yourself the screen name: "my journey".
Question: whose journey? Who, or what, is having a journey?

So far, we have not been able to identify any separate individual, have we? Can you find anything there that fits that description?

As you look out through those eyes, and those ears, what is experienced? Is it Kelvin? Is it NOT Kelvin? Can it truly be described?

Please let me know whether you have any other questions.

Cheers

Mark

just present unfoldment, journey is just a memory at the moment . But things do change, right? Like the body, it will change shape or the body will disassemble.

[ElPortal]

Hi Kelvin,

But things do change, right? Like the body, it will change shape or the body will disassemble.

Sure, things seem to change. But how is it known that there is any real body? There is an experience with a label of 'body', but what is ACTUALLY KNOWN apart from the experience?

Please consider the other questions in my last post and let me have your responses, or your questions.

Once we have clarity there, I will move on to our summary questions.

Warmly

[my journey]

Apart from experience, nothing is actually known. No one is having a journey. No separate individual. When awake, there's experience. When asleep(no awareness), there's no experience, nothing.

[ElPortal]

Hi Kelvin,

If you have any further issues you want to raise please feel free to do so now. Otherwise, I will give you our summing-up questions. Please take your time with them and just answer them honestly and as fully as you can, from your present experience (i.e. not theory). We have 6 summary questions. I will ask them 2 each time:-

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail, as well as you can from your OWN experience: what is the illusion of separate self, when does it start and how does it work? Describe it fully as you see it now. 

Thanks

Mark

[my journey]

I do have a question.
I don't think there's an "I". There's only experience.
But experience(or life) itself does have preference(or call tendency), right?
For example, the feeling of comfortable( not meaning anyone has the feeling).

Kelvin