oh say can I see?

[sue t]

But there are still things or thoughts that are upsetting, some rather trivial. For example, a present I sent to my daughter apparently didn't get there. The thought welled up like a balloon in the chest pushing on the stomach. Just a thought did this and it stuck there making it hard to eat. And btw,it wasn't even true. It certainly felt like there was a me experiencing this.

[codyjdennis]

No of course not, that's a good way of pointing that out.

:)
Often when people can't find 'control' they start believing in no control. So, another helpful way of seeing this is to Look in your own experience if you can find "control" or "no control". Can either of them be found?

But there are still things or thoughts that are upsetting, some rather trivial. For example, a present I sent to my daughter apparently didn't get there. The thought welled up like a balloon in the chest pushing on the stomach. Just a thought did this and it stuck there making it hard to eat. And btw,it wasn't even true. It certainly felt like there was a me experiencing this.

This can still happen. Noticing that it still happens doesn't mean there is actually a self. Always check back into your own experience and see if it can be found.

Also, the more it is seen "over time" these kinds of things will likely lessen.

- Cody

[sue t]

Look in your own experience if you can find "control" or "no control". Can either of them be found?

It seems like control is just an illusion. Not sure what you mean about 'no control' ....as an experiment on a drive to town, which is mainly an auto pilot kind of experience, I observed choices. There is a new bridge, which means there are now two ways to go, both pretty much equal. What if no conscious choice was made, no debating over it, would a choice still happen--of course, it happened easily. There is no need to control or question this decision making, and it isn't possible anyway, as you said, thinking there is control is just another thought.
On a long walk in the meadow, watching the thoughts, seeing them like passing clouds. The voice in the head, long equated with 'me-ness' is but a collection of passing thoughts and can't control anything. But behind that, what's there? There is an arising of mostly wordless concepts, inspiration if you will. Is it that which creative geniuses often give credit to, saying "I" did not create/discover this, it came 'through me.' ? Than Aha, this happens with all things great but also all things small. There need be no controlling of thoughts, no need to direct decisions, choices, they happen. There need not be, and no, there is no control. It felt like freedom. The walk home was glorious, the sky so incredibly blue and the cold, bleak, bland midwestern landscape suddenly was altogether lovely.

[codyjdennis]

Just letting you know I will respond soon. I've been traveling all day.

[codyjdennis]

Not sure what you mean about 'no control'

What I mean by 'no control' is often people when they look and can't find control they will make a statement like "I have no control".

The reason I brought it up is because it is no different of a statement than saying "I have control". It is just a thought.

is but a collection of passing thoughts and can't control anything.

Yes Sue :)

Is it that which creative geniuses often give credit to, saying "I" did not create/discover this, it came 'through me.'

In a way of speaking. Yes. Notice though that saying "through me" is not quite right either. Can the me be found?

Thought likes to label everything. It's not wrong, just something to notice.

Than Aha, this happens with all things great but also all things small.

Yes yes yes :-)

There need be no controlling of thoughts, no need to direct decisions, choices, they happen.

Nice! Yes everything is just happening.

[sue t]

Nothing.....to report

[codyjdennis]

Just be with this Sue for the next day..

Just occasionally throughout the day (as much as you feel inclined to do) check in your own experience if this self ("I") can be found at all. In any activity. Any choice etc....

It's really as simple as that.

- Cody

[sue t]

Yes, will do. Thank you, because it's feeling like acceptance is not the same as seeing...

[codyjdennis]

You're welcome.

You're right. They aren't the same thing. I don't want you to believe anything I say. Seeing what I am pointing to is not a belief.

We are looking at how reality IS. Not what we think about it.

[sue t]

Just checking in, need more time.

[sue t]

check in your own experience if this self ("I") can be found at all.

So I went for a walk on the meadow again, pondering the assignment,   and if I was too naive to be in the forum at all, thoughts going around in circles, such as the self is just make believe, is this just make believing it doesn’t exist, blah blah.   Then about 100 ft. ahead, I saw something.  A dead deer in the grass.  A carcass, we occasionally come across them. White and brown, pink, red, all mangled and torn open,  and pieces of it strewn nearby.   I scanned the area around it for signs of struggle,  coyote tracks, or whatever killed it, etc, all the while getting closer. I circled it wondering if it got mortally wounded in the road and somehow came all the way up here to die.   Much of it was missing then, no head?  bones?….was it just mostly skin, or what….then I saw.  It was not a deer at all.   Just a large piece of fabric in a heap, roses print, torn up probably by the hay cutting machine.   Dope slap moment.   There’s no deer, there never was, no further thinking about it.   No self, never was, no further thinking necessary.  There is nothing to find, other than flimsy figments of the imagination. 

[codyjdennis]

Lovely story sue :)

There’s no deer, there never was, no further thinking about it. No self, never was, no further thinking necessary. There is nothing to find, other than flimsy figments of the imagination.

Yes :). There is "nothing" to find. The self we think we are is imaginary.

This is the reason we call this the "gateless gate". There is no gate. There is nothing to cross. The gate and key most people see is all imaginary. Thinking creates an imaginary gate and key. This is why so many teachers so "you are already free". ;)

It's really that simple.

------

I'm going to give you a few exercises to do... please tell me where you feel any stickiness or confusion in any of this.

------------------------------------------
What is happening in this moment? With your five senses, what do you experience? Sights, sounds, tastes, smells, tactile sensations, even thoughts. Just list what there is going on, don’t draw conclusions.

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Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought “I hear that.” Now just pay attention to how sound happens. Take your time with it. Are you doing the hearing, or is it just happening?

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As you go about your day today and move around, see if you can find that there is a self moving things around.
Look for this I.
As you talk, walk, drive, eat, type, ..anything..check it out.
Is there a self living your life?
Or are there just thoughts about everything, including a self, seeming to live your life?
You don't have to decide or believe anything at all, just look at whats true for you.
In all that you are doing today, just keep looking at this. keep the focus on this.
Keep looking to see if there is something real, besides a thought, that owns and directs the body.


--
The exercises above are good things to come back to. It seems you have seen the simplicity of this but take your time with these.

[sue t]

Will check in tomorrow sometime....

[codyjdennis]

sounds good. Thanks

[sue t]

What is happening in this moment? With your five senses, what do you experience? Sights, sounds, tastes, smells, tactile sensations, even thoughts. Just list what there is going on, don’t draw conclusions.

sights-- hands on the keyboard, clutter and fruit on the oak table, bare branch trees outside the window, gray sky, photos on the fridge
sounds-- husband talking to daughter on phone, laughing. A car going by on the road. tick tock, clock.
tastes-- the tea that is now finished.
smells-- nothing noted, earlier outdoors there were lots of smells noted.
tactile-- the fingers feel pressure on keys, the feeling of sitting on a chair a bit uncomfortable, sock feet on a coolish floor, air going in the nose, tongue feels teeth
thoughts are relaxed, not concerned about what to write

Notice the sounds you’re hearing, like the chirping of the birds. Notice the habitual thought “I hear that.” Now just pay attention to how sound happens. Take your time with it. Are you doing the hearing, or is it just happening?

the same sounds as above, he's drumming fingers while he talks. The hearing seems like merely a body function, sound waves being picked up and all that, no one is doing that.

The next exercise about 'is there a self living your life' will be observed during some traveling. It will be good to take time for that one. There won't be a report until Friday.
Thank you for taking time to assist with this. Thank you to all of you at LU for what you do.