I would appreciate a guide!

[gabrielle23]

I have spent some time on the first part

Try this. Close your eyes and take a couple of deep breaths, then relax into just being aware of your out breath. After a few minutes, when you have relaxed and settled down, begin listening to the sounds of your environment. Notice that sound is always present. it's not like you have to turn on hearing. Thoughts about the sounds and where they are, what they are, will arise also. Disregard and return simply to hearing. Do you have to manage hearing? Or is hearing happening?

There is always some kind of sound, even the sound of silence is a very soft sound. The hearing seems to happen automatically by a process happening in the ear, no idea how this works but it isn 't relevant. It seems that the hearing itself is always happening but that there is focus on hearing when the brain gives a signal and focusing happens. For example, when the tv is on and I am doing something else, I guess that hearing still happens but that there is no focus in what is being said. But when something interesting comes by, 'I' will start focusing on it and the information will be absorbed. So the actual hearing happens by itself but consciously hearing happens after a thought orders for focusing to happen.

To be honest, not all of it is from direct experience. Some is also from past experience and common sense. The exercises of looking into direct experience are pretty new to me.

On a side note however, I do feel like I am getting closer. Sometimes I feel sure that self is an illusion but other times I just get drifted into identification with 'Gabrielle'.

Check this out. Is the distance between awareness and any sound an actual fact? Or is it a thought that separates 'me' from a sound? This can be very subtle at first. Once discursive thinking is identified with, a thought naturally follows another thought, like when you stated, " But it also seems like that the distance between 'me' and a sound isn't just a thought but also sense." In my own exploration, I, awareness, can never find a 'me' outside of a thought.

Awareness and sound cannot be given an exact location where they are found to be. So there is no distance that can be measured between it. It both just is. This is where the thoughts come in of 'how does this work?' 'Does awareness know EVERYTHING?' 'Is it necessary to mentally comprehend this?'

Greetings,

Gabrielle

[Josephkoudelka]

So the actual hearing happens by itself but consciously hearing happens after a thought orders for focusing to happen.

Does thought order focusing to happen? Or does focusing just happen? Another word for this is attention. Does attention happen or do you focus attention? If a thought precedes attention, are you aware of the thought beore or during its happening? after?

Look into this from awareness and answer each of the questions above.

To be honest, not all of it is from direct experience. Some is also from past experience and common sense. The exercises of looking into direct experience are pretty new to me.

We go through our life making all kind of assumptions about what is actually happening, basing it on past conditioning, memory, and believing our thinking that stems from such. The 'self' is only a thought. You can never find a 'self' in direct experience. That is why these exercises are useful.

Provide the evidence for a separate self named Gabrielle without a story. Who do 'you' think Gabrielle is? No right answer, just the regular one for who is Gabrielle.

Awareness and sound cannot be given an exact location where they are found to be. So there is no distance that can be measured between it. It both just is.

Yes. Every story or question from thought is not the direct experience of sound. It is an added layer that we substitute for our actual experience of reality.

You had mentioned before that intially, you really like Eckhart Tolle, but then grew disenchanted with him because he "...makes it seem like the ego is one giant monster." The ego isn't a monster, but it must be seen from the vantage point of awareness as clearly as possible. The entire 'self' is a series of repetitive self referential thoughts. Meaning that when these thoughts are examined, they only refer to other thoughts, that refr to other thoughts... ad infinitum. Just look. Can you find a real concretely identifiable self in there? If it is real, it should be findable. We should be able to hold it up and say, "here it is."

[gabrielle23]

Does thought order focusing to happen? Or does focusing just happen? Another word for this is attention. Does attention happen or do you focus attention? If a thought precedes attention, are you aware of the thought beore or during its happening? after?

It seems that attention happens by itself. When I am studying for example, it is not possible for 'me' to control my attention only on the studying. Attention gets drifted to other thoughts. Sometimes the attention is more zoomed in: there is more immersion and maybe identification in thoughts. Sometimes the attention is more zoomed out: there is more watching thoughts rather than being immersed in them.

The watching state is probably what Tolle means by being present. But it seems that a thought can also give guidance to attention. When a thought says 'you should pay attention to what he or she says because it could be important' attention on that person seems more likely to happen. Again, it is also a thought that thoughts give commands for where focus should be put. There are always times when your mind tells you to really pay attention, but there is no focus on the content that 'should' be focused on.

Provide the evidence for a separate self named Gabrielle without a story. Who do 'you' think Gabrielle is? No right answer, just the regular one for who is Gabrielle.

Gabrielle is the label given to this organism, the outside appearance of it and the inner where the processes of the physical body take place and thoughts, emotions and sensations arise. It is clear to 'me' that most of what goes on inside of Gabrielle is completely out of 'her' control. Emotions, sensations, and the functioning of the body is happening on it's own. Most times, it also clear that most thoughts are not 'self-made' but just happening. But there is still a little doubt if absolutely EVERYTHING out of control, or if there is still some kind of choice that human beings have. But the first one is absolutely assumed.

You had mentioned before that intially, you really like Eckhart Tolle, but then grew disenchanted with him because he "...makes it seem like the ego is one giant monster." The ego isn't a monster, but it must be seen from the vantage point of awareness as clearly as possible. The entire 'self' is a series of repetitive self referential thoughts. Meaning that when these thoughts are examined, they only refer to other thoughts, that refr to other thoughts... ad infinitum. Just look. Can you find a real concretely identifiable self in there? If it is real, it should be findable. We should be able to hold it up and say, "here it is."

Im moving on to answering this question now, just seemed like a good idea to already send something!

Hope you are having a good day,

Gabrielle

[gabrielle23]

The final exercise is found pretty difficult. I need a little more time with it but I will answer the questions asap!

Gabrielle

[gabrielle23]

You had mentioned before that intially, you really like Eckhart Tolle, but then grew disenchanted with him because he "...makes it seem like the ego is one giant monster." The ego isn't a monster, but it must be seen from the vantage point of awareness as clearly as possible. The entire 'self' is a series of repetitive self referential thoughts. Meaning that when these thoughts are examined, they only refer to other thoughts, that refr to other thoughts... ad infinitum. Just look. Can you find a real concretely identifiable self in there? If it is real, it should be findable. We should be able to hold it up and say, "here it is."

I cannot actually find a self this moment. Of course there is a being, an awareness, but there is nothing personal about it. Still there is the question, what if there is a little part in my brain that does have a bit of control? As I have said before, it is clear that most of thoughts are just arising and not 'made' by someone as far as I know. It logically doesn't make sense that there is only a teensy bit of control, but I can't help but feel somewhat responsible for my thoughts and actions. And, probably through identification, some thoughts still feel very personal, as if 'I' can't imagining not having actually made them.

[Josephkoudelka]

It seems that attention happens by itself.

Yes. Attention is happening without any self control. It can seem that thinking controls the quality of attention, but when we look closer, even thinking about attention is outside of our control.

Gabrielle is the label given to this organism, the outside appearance of it and the inner where the processes of the physical body take place and thoughts, emotions and sensations arise.

This is our conventional viewpoint, I'm in this body and everything else is out there.

It is clear to 'me' that most of what goes on inside of Gabrielle is completely out of 'her' control. Emotions, sensations, and the functioning of the body is happening on it's own. Most times, it also clear that most thoughts are not 'self-made' but just happening. But there is still a little doubt if absolutely EVERYTHING out of control, or if there is still some kind of choice that human beings have. But the first one is absolutely assumed.

Choice is the domain of free will. It would make sense that we have choice if we believe we are a separate body-mind complex. Choice, however, happens before we know it. Just like thinking and attention. We will look at this more closely. Do you know a thought before it happens?

I cannot actually find a self this moment. Of course there is a being, an awareness, but there is nothing personal about it. Still there is the question, what if there is a little part in my brain that does have a bit of control?

Is it possible to find a self in a brain? Look at your left hand. Is that the self? As awareness, look at your left hand and then look at the environment around you. Just look as the silent observing awareness. Is an actual separation of the left hand and environment experienced? Does awareness and the awareness of the left hand have any location? Where is the locus of awareness?

As I have said before, it is clear that most of thoughts are just arising and not 'made' by someone as far as I know. It logically doesn't make sense that there is only a teensy bit of control, but I can't help but feel somewhat responsible for my thoughts and actions. And, probably through identification, some thoughts still feel very personal, as if 'I' can't imagining not having actually made them.

It is all just happening now, seamlessly, whether we relax and enjoy the ride, or not. What you have identified here is a belief. Gabrielle believes she must have at least some control, regardless of what her direct experience tells her. :) It is interesting, isn't it. Even this dialogue is beyond Joseph and Gabrielle's control. I have no idea what thought I am going to write next but thoughts keep happening... and I continue to write, and edit, and clarify what I am trying to communicate. This vast awareness seems to possess intelligence and precision. It is amazing.

No self, no doer.

There are some questions in this dialogue, please explore and answer them and we will see where it leads us.

Joseph ♥

[gabrielle23]

Is it ok if I reply sunday or monday at the latest? I feel like I really need some time to answer, and I don't want to send quick answers just so that I have something to send...

Hope you're well!

Gabrielle

[Josephkoudelka]

Yes.

Best - Joseph

[gabrielle23]

Do you know a thought before it happens?

This is a good one. A really good one. And looking at direct experience I can say that at this moment the thoughts happen and they are not known before they happen.

That is also what I am trying to do right now. Looking at what is happening NOW. I felt that I needed an answer, a definite answer that makes me a 100% sure that I don't know a thought before it happens. All I know for sure is what is happening now.

I am getting to the other questions now!

Love,

Gabrielle

[Josephkoudelka]

Glad you enjoy that. Whenever I am taking myself too seriously, I ask myself this question. Seeing clearly that This is just happening relaxs the contraction of "I."

Joseph ♥

[gabrielle23]

Is it possible to find a self in a brain?

If there was a self in the brain, I would need to be sure that 'I' can construct thoughts. Kind of confused on this.

L

ook at your left hand. Is that the self? As awareness, look at your left hand and then look at the environment around you. Just look as the silent observing awareness

.
The self doesn't feel like 'me', as in it doesnt feel like a controller. And it feels like the viewpoint I have is higher, near my eyes.

Is an actual separation of the left hand and environment experienced?

When I see with my eyes the left hand is just part of what is being seen. The only difference is that the left hand is actually felt from inside and the rest of the environment is not felt.

The rest of the answers are coming

[gabrielle23]

Does awareness and the awareness of the left hand have any location? Where is the locus of awareness?

Awareness doesn't have a location. It knows everything but there is not an exact location where it can be found.

[Josephkoudelka]

Joseph asked - Is it possible to find a self in a brain?

If there was a self in the brain, I would need to be sure that 'I' can construct thoughts. Kind of confused on this.

Is the brain the location of self? I contend that if the self exists, it must be findable outside of thoughts about a self.

Let's cut to the chase. Can you find any evidence that 'you' are a separate self? Thoughts that claim they are evidence of the self are only thoughts. If you choose thoughts as evidence of a self, why can't you - the self, control your thoughts?

Is a thought aware of itself? Does a thought know another thought? Or do you, as awareness, know all thoughts?

The self doesn't feel like 'me', as in it doesnt feel like a controller. And it feels like the viewpoint I have is higher, near my eyes.

Is any thought, viewpoint, or sensation a real candidate for the self, the little me? Or once again, do you - awareness, know all thoughts, viewpoints, sensations, emotions, sounds, smells, tastes, ect...?

All I am really pointing to is that any object of cognition cannot be you, awareness. Not a single object of cognition or experience has any knowledge whatsoever. They are all inert. They cannot 'know' anything.

Awareness doesn't have a location. It knows everything but there is not an exact location where it can be found.

Yes. Awareness cannot be located.

Joseph ♥

[gabrielle23]

Let's cut to the chase. Can you find any evidence that 'you' are a separate self? Thoughts that claim they are evidence of the self are only thoughts. If you choose thoughts as evidence of a self, why can't you - the self, control your thoughts?

No. It only seems like 'I' am one. Thoughts seem either new or habitual. I don't ever see 'myself' constructing thoughts before they happen. It is strange how they can seem and feel so personal while it is clear that at the very least the by far biggest part of them are completely out of control.

Is a thought aware of itself? Does a thought know another thought? Or do you, as awareness, know all thoughts?

There is an awareness of all thoughts. The thought itself seems to be just that, a thought. But thoughts are related to each other often times, so the brain as an organ seems to have some memory of previous thoughts.

I hope youre ok with me taking a little more time with the last question. Im not the speediest answerer but I like being somewhat sure of my answers.

Thanks so much for everything. I really feel like I am starting to get it.

[Josephkoudelka]

It is strange how they can seem and feel so personal while it is clear that at the very least the by far biggest part of them are completely out of control.

All of them are completely out of *your* control. There is no *you*. There is this sense of self that, somehow, is identified with the very same thoughts that support it. But upon closer inspection, there is a vast expanse of silence, total and complete unbroken awareness, that the entire creation appears in... temporarily. No self is just that - no self. This then includes everything that appears - Gabrielle, the entire world of experience.

If we are silent, a deep truth presents. Not only thoughts, but the complete lifing happening is unfolding without interference, either real or imagined.

But thoughts are related to each other often times, so the brain as an organ seems to have some memory of previous thoughts.

How do you know this "...'brain' as an organ..," outside of just another thought? And memory also, is just another thought. Look. Memory is very sticky because it seems to have this special quality that we can rely on regarding the past. However, it is just another thought, and a very fallible one at that. There is never any time but NOW. Each and every thought only happens NOW. Does one thought know another thought? Or do you, as Awareness, know all thoughts? Awareness knows the mind and its functions as an object, the mind can never know the whole - Awareness - as an object. Awareness is the ultimate subject NOW. All existence is only NOW from the standpoint of Awareness.