Show me the truth Noone!

[No_One]

What are the facts? What can be seen and what did you assume?

[LetMeIn]

The facts are that this brain controls the function of the hands and the assumption is that there is an I who participates in the action when in fact it doesn't exist

[No_One]

How do you know the brain controls the functions of the hands? Sure ... that's probably true but still an assumption.

What is it that can be seen? List everything that can be seen related to this action. Only what you can see ... actions and thoughts

[LetMeIn]

What is it that can be seen? List everything that can be seen related to this action. Only what you can see ... actions and thoughts

The hands are just here and move accordingly to maneuver through what it wants to touch or grasp. If the hands are focused on for a long time then they look sort of weird and the fingers look long and somewhat abstract. Thoughts come and go during the watching of the hands. They come an go pretty fast, the attention is jumping to each one until it can be brought back to observe that all the thoughts are just simply thoughts and will never stop ending. But after a small time the thoughts are not observed and thoughts seem like "I" think them.

[No_One]

OK ... so when you look the I is not visible. But when you stop looking the 'I' seems to come back. It seems like you think / act. Good ... what about feeling and observing. Do you do them or are they done without an I?

[No_One]

And even when you don't look, when the I is there, is there an I or just he feeling there is an I? Very important difference. Trigger a thought which is full of I and just observe what's going on. Don't fight it ... just observe.

[LetMeIn]

what about feeling and observing. Do you do them or are they done without an I?

Observing is not done by any entity or "I" and neither are feelings. Feelings are here but they feel like "I" feel them

And even when you don't look, when the I is there, is there an I or just the feeling there is an I? Very important difference.

"I"seems to be the feeling, what was noticed this morning when this body first woke up was that the "I" didn't feel so controlling over the body as it was moving to please its own comfort. The feeling of "I" wasn't there AS much but it still felt like it's my body. Seems like the feeling "I" gets stronger the more the body awakes from sleep.

Trigger a thought which is full of I and just observe what's going on. Don't fight it ... just observe.

When thinking about stuff that is claimed to be mine, such as my dog, laptop, motorcycle, brother, my name...etc nothing distinct is observed but subtle feelings that reside with each thought are felt but no major feeling is felt

[No_One]

OK ... so this feeling that it's happening to you ... does this correspond to a 'you'? Or is it just a thought about something and a feeling this is happening to you? Or feeling something and a feeling this is happening to you? Look at this feeling ... is there something behind it?

[No_One]

Just look at this feeling. What is this feeling about? What's behind it? Look at how the I gets into the picture. Look at it whenever it pops. What does it stand for? What does it mean?

[LetMeIn]

The feeling is just here. But at other times it just seems like what feeling, this is normal and this is the way I feel. It's seems so strongly that it is "my" feeling though because its like it has been overlooked for mine for so long, and that there is nothing else to compare to.

[No_One]

The 'I' feeling is strong and very real BUT it does not correspond to a real I. A thought about a cup corresponds to a real cup. A thought about the I does not correspond to a real I. See the difference? Also, a thought, a feeling cannot do anything. It's not the thought about a horse that does something, it's the real horse that does it

[LetMeIn]

yeah interesting when you mentioned the horse i remembered i read earlier that the "I" is just as real as a unicorn, it exist as a thought but it is imagined itself into existence. This makes a lot of sense intellectually, need to see the "I" belief in this manner more often. Its like i want more evidence that the "I" is false. It can be said that i have all the evidence and i know this but i need that one clear seeing that "I" don't exist!

[No_One]

This is of course not about evidence. It's about seeing it for yourself. Trigger something that is full of I (e.g. anger, childhood memories, look at yourself in the mirror, look at your hand) and see what's behind that I feeling

[No_One]

How's it going mate? Where's the I hiding?

[LetMeIn]

seems there is no "I" to be found. Just the experience which the "I" claims every thought or motion coming from the brain thinking that "I" thought of this or I am this thought. Just like a song that got stuck in my head. It is similar to when i talk to myself about an idea or circumstance that popped into my head, and it is thought that is my view. Neither can be "I" because "I" would kill the song if it was tired of hearing it. It was easier to see that thoughts just come and they are not "mine" when the song got stuck in my head. Still feels like an "I" is here though.