Guide available here

[garybeale]

The illusion is that life is a car and that we are driving the car. We can steer it where we want and continue to believe this even in the face of the strongest evidence that steering has no effect. But the reality is that we are on a roller coaster and all we can do is enjoy the ride. The illusory self, being a product of the mind worries about the future, feels guilty about the past and cannot be present. Trying to stay present, the self only THINKS it is present. When there is no self, there is either thinking or presence, there is nothing to think it is being present. The self tries to swim against the river of life, when there is no self there is just going with the flow of life. This is how it works for me now. Instead of fighting events, I surrender to them. I don't know when I first created my self, but I do know when I discovered it had never been.

[garybeale]

I did post a further reply this morning, but it seems to have disappeared into the ether. I'll wait till later to see if it reappears, if not I'll post again.

[Bezuda]

Anyways great answer.

Now tell me, how does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

[garybeale]

How does it feel? There is certainly a sense of freedom that wasn't there before. Relief that the fiction has been realised. Just the fact that there is no need to drive the car, just watch and enjoy, makes things easier. There is no constant struggling to make or want things "right" all the time. The mind has quietened a lot since I started this dialogue. At first the "thoughts arising" was intense. I tend to let the mind do it's thing now. Also, the periods of quiet are deeper and quieter. The arising thoughts fewer in those moments. I feel as though life is happening without "me" in the way. The mind isn't liking it much, but there's not much it can do. Occasionally the mind will throw up egoistic thoughts, but there is no identification with them. It feels like it's fishing a bit, you know, waiting for "me" to bite. But with no "me" there, it will be a long time waiting.

[Bezuda]

Ya, let the mind do what it does.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

[garybeale]

It was your question with the "2)" in front of it. My first attempt, or frustrated first attempt forced a more thorough search. The answer I gave (the one I will thought was lost), was written moments after I woke up. Thank you again for your time.

[Bezuda]

Thank you for being here!

No it wasn't.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

[garybeale]

Decision: I've been looking. Not sure, but an idea arrives. Don't know where the idea comes FROM, but it seems to be from the mind. Then, the mind searches for options to fulfil the idea. The idea may be triggered by something e.g. the tummy rumbles, there is hunger, idea - get food. How to get food and when. The mind seems to flick through several options and then picks one. The body then just does what is he mind wants, only the mind doesn't have to consciously make the body move. It just moves. Intention again seems to be from the mind.

Free will. I don't know about this. When I was standing in the supermarket looking at the jams and spreads it felt like there was a choice. Peanut butter or jam. I stood there trying to see if I had any choice. It could have gone either way. There was the freedom to make either choice. Recent research suggests that the he part of the brain that chooses what to eat is in a different part to that which wants to stay healthy. So my brain suggested that I choose low sugar jam. The other part chose peanut butter. Peanut butter won. Who or what chose? Just the brain or mind. Following its programming. Had I had different programming there would have been a different choice. No free will, just programming.

When you say "what are YOU responsible for", what do you mean by You? If there is no me, then I am not responsible for anything. If you mean this body/mind, then this body/mind is responsible to society for its actions.

[garybeale]

The thing is, if there's no free will, that means that we're all just characters in a game with scripted lines and nothing I do will change that. It means that whatever I do was going to happen in spite of anything I do or say to try and prevent it. This means that, trying to see that there is no self is pointless, seeking enlightenment is pointless. It means no one can do anything about anything. It means that the lives that people lead aren't lives at all, they're just part of a machine, with no power to change their circumstances at all. We're just here to enjoy or suffer whatever is scripted. This seems completely right and completely wrong at the same time. Things are not becoming clearer, they're becoming more confused.

[Bezuda]

That's right. All you wrote is true.

Why confused?

[garybeale]

Confused is probably the wrong word. Disappointed maybe. If there is nothing that can be done to change the life situation, then it means that I have to continue to be in a life that is a bit like a third rate soap opera, with poor scripting and bad actors. Nothing, including talking to you can change that, because the patterns just keep repeating themselves. It means that I'm a passive observer of a life of pain and struggle. What's the bloody point? I feel a bit like Neo in The Matrix, after Morpheus has just told him that humans are just an energy source for the machines. I need to look at this further.

[garybeale]

I think I need help with this free will thing. The more I look the more I can see that of course there is no free will, what nonsense to even consider it. But then there is another argument that says, how preposterous to suggest that there isn't. Free will, the mind's free will, is being exercised in writing this. The mind could choose not to. Even if its the case that I'm sitting in a roller coaster of life, with no self steering, at least I can exercise my free will to enjoy the view, or hate it. Or jump off if it gets too awful. And when I say "my", I mean whatever it is that enjoys stuff. Whatever it is that feels. This body/mind is sitting on a sofa, looking at a garden and enjoying the view. It's programming told it that this is a good place to sit, no free will there. It looks out the window and finds the view pleasant, good to look at. This is because of conditioning, another word for programming. No free will there. Tomorrow, if tomorrow arrives for this body/mind (b/m), it will go into someone's home and try and sell the occupants solar panels for the roof. This b/m finds the process slightly deceitful, and the drive to the house is generally filled with fear and nervousness. There is no self, so what is it that is afraid? The mind is afraid because it's experience/conditioning/programming says, in this situation you will feel afraid. No free will there. The mind tells itself that there is nothing to be afraid of, but it's no use. Fear is dominant. Fear is felt. No free will. So the roller coaster thing doesn't work. There isn't even a choice of where to look or how to feel. There is no self to steer the car, there is a set path to follow, withset scenery and a prescribed set of feelings about each one, with a prescribed set of actions based on them. This b/m is an automaton, and it knows it and despairs, because that is what it is programmed to do. The roller coaster travels it's programmed route and nothing can be done about it. This b/m knows there is no self, but where is the peace, the serenity that was promised with the realisation of that?

[Bezuda]

After realizing no self, there is a deepening of the realization.

Have you tried just siting with what is? ( (true)meditation )

By the way, do you have a facebook account?

[garybeale]

I do have a Facebook account, but I've never really used it. Not sure how to, but could try, if I can remember the details. Why do you ask?

I used to do what I thought was meditation twice a day for twenty minutes or so. Since all this happened I haven't done so. What is (true) meditation?

If the realisation is deepening, then it seems to be a turbulent process.

[Bezuda]

There is a facebook group where LU members connect and post whenever a doubt arises.

Awakening is a process. Now you're the one responsible for 'deepening it'. Check out this teacher on youtube: 'Adyashanti'.

Add me on facebook so i can put you on LU group.