Help me please . . .

[Sparsh]

Probably the expressions on my face and the 'feelings' in my body makes me most identified with my body. I'm always conscious of the expressions on my face. Its weird, but I always try to not make any facial expression, though I fail many times.
I 'feel' with my body a lot. My body is often uptight, my throat not relaxed, many times I'm breathing very shallow, or hyperventilating.
I'm always worried about being looked down on by others for what is going on with my body.

[Sparsh]

I had posted my previous post through 'quick reply', and its not visible to me. So, I'm posting it again here to make sure its visible to you:


Probably the expressions on my face and the 'feelings' in my body makes me most identified with my body. I'm always conscious of the expressions on my face. Its weird, but I always try to not make any facial expression, though I fail many times.
I 'feel' with my body a lot. My body is often uptight, my throat not relaxed, many times I'm breathing very shallow, or hyperventilating.
I'm always worried about being looked down on by others for what is going on with my body.

[stu]

As it happens the first post did happen properly. It’s just that the software put it at the start of page 2.

I think I need to say a bit more about ‘direct looking’, because most of your reply isn’t from direct looking… you seem to be reporting from a number of past events, rather than doing the exercise and reporting only what happened then. Direct looking consists of setting aside views based on what has happened in the past, and paying attention only to what your direct experience tells you now, in the present moment.
To give an example, here is my direct experience of what is happening to me right now: Sight of computer screen. Sight, sound and touch of typing on keyboard. Sound of TV in background. Feeling of touch of chair. Calm, but with a desire to communicate clearly.

Let’s try a slightly simplified version of the exercise. Sit with your eyes closed in a quiet space with your hands resting on your legs. Pay attention to the direct experience of your hands. Ignore any thoughts about past experiences or views about the body. They are just thought stories. Focus only on the present experience of your senses. What happens?

[Sparsh]

Sitting with my legs crossed , I'm feeling conscious of my facial expressions, particularly my lips - trying to make sure they don't curl in the end to 'make a smile' or any other expressions through the lips. As I'm sitting, I'm feeling conscious of my lips. I also hear the sound of fan running, some noises outside, crying of baby etc.


The consciousness about face goes on all the time. I don't even make any effort for all these. They happen on their own. I have 'Body dysmorphic disorder' concerning my face and lips. It makes me conscious on my facial parts all the time.

[Sparsh]

As I'm lying on my bed, I'm feeling my neck stiff . . . .

[stu]

Sitting with my legs crossed, I'm feeling conscious of my facial expressions, particularly my lips - trying to make sure they don't curl in the end to 'make a smile' or any other expressions through the lips. As I'm sitting, I'm feeling conscious of my lips. I also hear the sound of fan running, some noises outside, crying of baby etc.

Great! That’s nice direct looking. Direct looking is an important technique to master, because it is an essential tool for our investigation. So I’m glad that you seemed to have it sussed.

The consciousness about face goes on all the time. I don't even make any effort for all these. They happen on their own. I have 'Body dysmorphic disorder' concerning my face and lips. It makes me conscious on my facial parts all the time.

Thanks for this info too. Whilst I recognize that anything labeled as a disorder must be undesirable in your eyes, the fact that there is an aspect of your experience that reliably puts in an appearance is actually quite useful in the context of direct looking. So, let’s continue…
When you use direct looking to pay attention to your lips, what is it about your experience that gives it a sense of Sparsh? What quality gives it its ‘Sparshness’?

[Sparsh]

Looking direct at my experience, the feelings of uneasiness around my mouth including my lips and jaw is giving my experience the me-ness. The feelings that my upper and lower jaw aren't completely aligned together is there. I'm constantly clenching my jaws to make sure they are in right place. I'm also conscious about my lips. I'm making sure my lips are 'lying there' normally. At the same time I'm clenching my jaws constantly. I'm also conscious about my other facial expressions. My neck is stiff. I'm feeling the energy in my body is upward.

Its like Sparsh is all about feelings of uneasiness about different parts of face/facial expressions and upward energy in body.

[stu]

Looking direct at my experience, the feelings of uneasiness around my mouth including my lips and jaw is giving my experience the me-ness.

Is the uneasiness an actual physical discomfort , or is it a thought story (probably based on past conditions/habits)? Is it anything other than thoughts?

I'm also conscious about my lips. I'm making sure my lips are 'lying there' normally. At the same time I'm clenching my jaws constantly. I'm also conscious about my other facial expressions. My neck is stiff. I'm feeling the energy in my body is upward.

And so the thought story seems to be saying ‘I hope my face is all nice and symmetrical’. And there is a fear that it is not. So the thought story continues with ‘I’d better check’.
So if I have got this right, it is all triggered by thoughts. Is that right?

Please use your direct experience to answer the following questions:

1. When any thoughts arise, can you see them arriving from somewhere, or do they just pop into awareness?
2. Can you stop a thought part way through its arrival?
3. Can you see a thinker who is producing thoughts?
4. If you say to yourself ‘I am not going to think about a duck’, does it work, or does an image (imagined picture and/or sound) of a duck flash into awareness?
5. If you say to yourself ‘I am not going to think about my face’, does it work, or does your awareness switch to your face?
6. Can you control, with 100% certainty, what the next thought will be?

And for this question, no need to use direct looking…just tell me your response:
7. Isn’t the thought running through your mind right now just an arising that is dependent on the words of this sentence?

[Sparsh]

Is the uneasiness an actual physical discomfort , or is it a thought story (probably based on past conditions/habits)? Is it anything other than thoughts?

Yes, their are 'physical feelings' associated with uneasiness. Actually, there is no thought whatsoever about the consciousness and uneasiness about my mouth and other facial expressions. I just feel the feelings around my mouth, like if something is not right or that the lips and jaws are not there in the right place. These feelings are always there, with no thought to precede, probably because of years of thinking about it.

1. When any thoughts arise, can you see them arriving from somewhere, or do they just pop into awareness?

The thoughts come and I'm lost in them, then I realize it after some time.

2. Can you stop a thought part way through its arrival?

I lying here, then I'm lost in thoughts, then I realize I was lost in my thoughts. Then I come back to the present moment.

3. Can you see a thinker who is producing thoughts?

I'm just lost in thoughts, then I come back to the present moment. I can't see anyone producing thoughts.

4. If you say to yourself ‘I am not going to think about a duck’, does it work, or does an image (imagined picture and/or sound) of a duck flash into awareness?

I say to myself 'I am not going to think about a duck', an image of a duck comes into my awareness.

5. If you say to yourself ‘I am not going to think about my face’, does it work, or does your awareness switch to your face?

When I say that to myself, no image comes up.

6. Can you control, with 100% certainty, what the next thought will be?

I'm thinking about what to think. Then I'm thinking about a forest. Then about a seashore. Then about my childhood school. Then about my home. Then I'm realizing what I'm deciding to think, actually it is not being decided by me.

I'm not at all controlling what the next thought will be.

And for this question, no need to use direct looking…just tell me your response:
7. Isn’t the thought running through your mind right now just an arising that is dependent on the words of this sentence?

Yes, the aforementioned sentence is making me think, about it.

[Sparsh]

Saying to myself 'I'm not going to think about my face', no image comes up. Then I say it again, and again, then a not so clear image of my face comes up.

[stu]

Nice clear answers. So in the realm of thoughts, is there a self?

[Sparsh]

Thoughts are coming from no where. But they are always related to what I have experienced before. When I'm thinking about the past, its about what has happened before. When I'm thinking about the future, I'm kind of projecting what I have experienced before. Moreover, the thoughts make me suffer. Not only the thoughts, various feelings I experience, like the feelings of uneasiness accompanied by hyperventilation, the feelings of hurt, the feelings of offence etc. they all make feel very bad.

[Sparsh]

Also the desires I have, like wanting a beautiful girl in my life, wanting to be socially smart etc they all make me suffer.

[stu]

Thoughts are coming from no where.

Yes, they seem like that to me too.

But they are always related to what I have experienced before.

So they arise dependent upon conditions. But when you reflect on the likely conditions that gave rise to a thought (or any event for that matter), does a ‘self’ need to be a part of that? For example, the thought has just arisen in my mind that I need to bring the washing in soon, because the sky looks like it might rain soon. In my direct awareness of the present moment, I can’t see where that thought came from. But my mind can quickly come up with a plausible story that includes causes such as grey sky, a memory of putting washing out, and a desire to get it all dry reasonable quickly. There is no need for a self there. Of course, I could create the illusion of a self by making a story about how I am a reliable person who doesn’t forget the washing. But that is all just a thought story, without any real substance. And I know that it has no substance, because if I use direct looking, I can’t see a self there… only a thought story.

When I'm thinking about the past, its about what has happened before. When I'm thinking about the future, I'm kind of projecting what I have experienced before.

Using direct looking, what is the past, and what is the future? Can you directly experience anything other than right now?

Not only the thoughts, various feelings I experience, like the feelings of uneasiness accompanied by hyperventilation, the feelings of hurt, the feelings of offence etc. they all make feel very bad.

Next time you notice a feeling (good or bad or whatever) use direct looking to look for an ‘experiencer’ of it, which is separate from the bare feeling. Can you find one? Or does the feeling/emotion just seem to happen without an internal ‘doer’ making it happen?

Also the desires I have, like wanting a beautiful girl in my life, wanting to be socially smart etc they all make me suffer.

Yes, wanting something that we haven’t got is a sure cause of suffering. Desires still happen after seeing no-self, so this journey will not get rid of them.

[Sparsh]

Thoughts and emotions come from nowhere, but they are dependent upon external circumstances. I do get hurt sometimes, I'm happy sometimes, I'm excited sometimes and I'm lazy sometimes.
What is it that experiences mental pain ?