A guide would be appreciated!

[eyeman]

Hiya,

Mike, I have a question. Yes, it's not real, but still, how is it possible I felt a little full after imagining eating the food item? So, even though I didn't experienced it directly, the thought was able to fill my stomach in. Yes, it was an illusion a I just imagined it but it worked physically too.

Let's find out... You can do this by trying another exercise:

When you next feel hungry, please imagine yourself eating a nice big dinner instead of really eating one. If you feel full after this, you won't need the real dinner, when hunger comes up again, just imagine another meal. When or if it reaches the point where imagining is not enough, then please go ahead and eat real food. Also, if you feel weak through lack of nourishment, that will show you that imagining the meal is not the same as the real meal - in which case you should go and eat a proper meal.

Let me know how you get on :-)

MIke

[intothenow]

Hi Mike,

just saying hi and I hope you are ok

I look forward to hear from you soon.

:)

[eyeman]

Hiya,

Did you see the question posted above relating to your question?

Thanks

Mike :-)

[intothenow]

Hi Mike,

Yes, I couldn't see your message that was the reason I messaged you.

Well, great, back on track and more interested than ever before.

While I was waiting for your reply, actually, me not seeing it.... hm... so silly... anyway, I's doing the previous practice in regards the "I". When I look, I always stuck at a point where I cannot go further a I see nothing. But if so, who/what we are? nothing... right? is that the wholeness only? but the wholeness is something, or nothing?!?!? ok, I think I have to stop thinking about it, because it doesn't lead me anywhere.

I did the exercise what you asked me to do. Must say I needed to eat at some point today. Actually not really as one could go without food for few days to feel the hunger. But I remembered one of my strong experience. I was doing a 7 days fasting. Interesting experience, at the end I felt energised and weak at the same time. Not sure how to explain it. Anyway, one thing was sure, my body needed nourishment. So yes, it's ok to "feed" ourselves with thoughts for a short time, but in long run without food we can't survive. Yes, you are right.

Thank you for you patience!

After this weekend I feel that now I'm definitely ready to do this.

I look forward to your reply.

Mira :)

[eyeman]

Hi Mira,

Thanks for your response :-)

Hopefully you can now see clearly that thought contents (ideas or imaginings) are not Reality. Whereas when you are able to directly experience something through the senses, we know for sure that it's something real.

We can imagine an apple, it's weight, colour, texture, smell and taste but if we open our eyes, there's no apple and it will not feed us.

Here, we only rely on things we KNOW to be true and disregard what is imagined. For this reason, try to not get caught up in 'thinking' about these exercises too much, the main focus should be on the direct experience while doing them in the moment.

For the next exercise, let's start to look into some ideas which we've perhaps always believed but we need to test if they are true or not.

Please get up and walk about, swing your arms around, dance if you like. Look at your direct experience while doing this - Are you 'deciding' to move your arms and legs about, or does it just happen without any need for a controller to make this happen?

Mike :-)

[intothenow]

Hi Mike,:)

1st experience - I decided on the movements.

2nd experience - I was standin still and after some time my body started moving a little bit.suppose of the nerves.

3rd experience - started moving and later I just let the body move.I didn't know anymore what the next move was. It felt nice though.

Mira:)

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[eyeman]

Hi Mira,

1st experience - I decided on the movements.

Can you explain this a little further? Are you saying you thought it out in your mind before starting, or there was a conscious 'will' which made each movement happen?

3rd experience - started moving and later I just let the body move.I didn't know anymore what the next move was. It felt nice though.

Yes, it's great to see how the body can do what it needs to do without needing a 'you' to make it happen, think of when taking a walk, riding a bike, or driving a car, we don't need to think about moving our left leg to a certain position then the left leg, the arms one forward one back etc... It all happens by itself and is quite wonderful.

Please respond to the question above, then we can start to take a deeper look.

Mike :-)

[intothenow]

Good Morning Mike,

yes,the first experience was based on my decision.I thought of movements before they happened.must admit not much fun as it needs to much concentration. Yes, the body is very intelligent and knows what to do. As you said, it doesn't need the "I".

Thank you,

Mira:)

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[eyeman]

Good Morning Mira,

You're doing well and sounds like you're having fun with the exercises :-)

Yes you're right, the body doesn't need an 'I' to control it, the heart beats, hair grows, cells regenerate, it all happens by its self.

Let's now look at choice and free will - if there's a 'chooser', then there must be something choosing, so we need to check this out in order to find out the truth:

Right now, in your direct experience, choose the name of a City, it can be any city in the world - look closely at how you 'pick' the city of choice - try to focus on the exact moment when this choice is made.

Just right down an honest account of what happens as fully as you can.

Mike :-)

[intothenow]

Hi Mike,

1st - while I's reading your message a city popped up in my mind,I'd a flashback.it's fast,there was no control.

2nd exercise - wanted to choose a city consciously. There was no city in my mind for a little while.Then I remembered a city which I like,where I wouldn't mind to live.

where do they come from?perhaps memory.
When the choices were made? Hm...I couldn't control that.they came and left.

Mira:)

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[eyeman]

Hi Mira,

1st - while I's reading your message a city popped up in my mind, I'd a flashback. it's fast, there was no control.

Yes, as you rightly point out, there's no real control over what pops up, you read the question (which was a condition prompting you to come up with a city name), a name comes into the mind but there's no real idea why that came to mind - though again, there will be conditions which will make that particular city name pop into your head.

2nd exercise - wanted to choose a city consciously. There was no city in my mind for a little while.Then I remembered a city which I like, where I wouldn't mind to live.

Again, you can see that a city or perhaps two or three might come up as ideas. From all of the thousands of cities in the world, we will not have heard of many of them so you are not able to 'choose' those, from all that are left, most of them did not occur to you, so we cannot believe we are free to choose something that does not occur to us, of perhaps 1, 2 or 3, which do come up in the mind, we will 'choose' one of them and there will be conditions which lead to that 'choice', eg: a pleasant memory, or perhaps seeing recent film with that city in it etc...

Can you think of ANY examples, where you feel that you're able to make a free choice?

Mike :-)

[intothenow]

Hi Mike,

Very good question.

One of the choice what I make all the time is to cross the red lights or not. I'm cyclist and I must admit that I cross red lights depending on the circumstances.

According to the previous excersise this won't be considered as a choice but as a thought. But isn't a choice a thought? And now the question is:where does the choice come from? Hm...stuck on this.:(

Mira:)


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[eyeman]

Hi Mira,

One of the choice what I make all the time is to cross the red lights or not. I'm cyclist and I must admit that I cross red lights depending on the circumstances.

This looks like a good example of conditions leading to the outcome - the perceived 'choice'. eg: if the conditions are in place, perhaps no traffic, you will continue without worrying about the red light. If the conditions are such that it would be considered dangerous, then a different 'choice' will be made. Just 'Mira' as a part of life playing out conditions.

According to the previous exercise this won't be considered as a choice but as a thought. But isn't a choice a thought? And now the question is: where does the choice come from? Hm...stuck on this.:(

Here it gets interesting, the concept of a 'choice' is indeed simply an idea. The mind is very good at creating 'truths' when there is in fact none. We often make assumptions which are never tested. The idea that there is a chooser, is one such assumption. Though of course we CAN test this to see if it's true or false.

As you have found in the previous exercise, the 'choice' just pops into the mind, the mind then labels it as 'my choice'.

Try again to make a choice - perhaps hold a different object in each hand and 'decide' on one of them. Look very carefully for the point where the choice happens. Ask yourself, 'is it possible to 'choose' which choice you will make?' To re-phrase that question: Is it possible for the mind to know what that choice will be before the point at which the choice (thought) happens?

Here's another exercise which will help you get an idea of just how much control 'the self' has over the mind or in fact anything:

At some point during the next hour or so, mentally shout 'STOP!' (you can do this in your head rather than physically shout). At that point, totally stop, stand or sit perfectly still, then report back what happens using your present moment direct experience.

Mike :-)

[intothenow]

Good morning Mike,

Interesting....

I chose 2 items which I like thinking that it will be more difficult to choose 1 out of those 2. Must admit that it was difficult to choose, so I hesitated.Then the choice was made after putting under consideration the colour,material,history of those items etc....
1st - chose 2 items - I couldn't control the point when the choice was made. The choice just happened.
2nd-chose 1 item - again, the choice happened.the thought arised and it happened. It's impossible to control it. Just a thought like any other,comes and goes and they arise according to situations, circumstances etc...

2nd exercise - shouting

After shouting is stillness. No thoughts, it's releasing.

Mira:)

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[eyeman]

Good Morning Mira :-)

I chose 2 items which I like thinking that it will be more difficult to choose 1 out of those 2. Must admit that it was difficult to choose, so I hesitated. Then the choice was made after putting under consideration the colour, material, history of those items etc....
1st - chose 2 items - I couldn't control the point when the choice was made. The choice just happened.
2nd-chose 1 item - again, the choice happened. the thought arised and it happened. It's impossible to control it. Just a thought like any other, comes and goes and they arise according to situations, circumstances etc...

Nicely described Mira :-)

After shouting is stillness. No thoughts, it's releasing.

Let's try this one again, but this time look very carefully indeed. After shouting STOP! in your mind, see if you can make everything stop for a full Minute or more. Does the heart continue to beat, does breathing continue, do all sounds cease, does the world as experienced directly in the 'now' just stop because you command it to?

Have you ever meditated Mira? If you have, have you ever been able to stop the flow of thoughts arising and passing away for very long? If you've never meditated, give it a go for say 20 minutes, just focus on your breath and see if the mind obeys and does just focus on the breath or other thoughts start coming into the mind.

Mike :-)