The Gate

Protecting nothing

Thats great looking Padmalaya.

Oh wow.

Nice, a lightbulb moment!

I'll have to keep this for a while before I respond

Is there an "I" that can chose when to respond or is responding just happening and thoughts describe it with an "I'm doing it" added in?

Spend time looking a choice and how it happens, I look forward to hearing what is found in DE.

Much love

Thank you Smudge.

Well, there's no 'I', but it feels as if there is an 'I'.

However sometimes choices seem to be just happening, like when we drive, or play Bridge!

Sometimes there seems also to be a battle between the ego (I?) and something else (perhaps itself) regarding making a choice, eg , when to reply.

[thank you for what we are doingSmudge. I can't tell you how grateful and excited I am. ]

Good stuff Padmalaya,

there's no 'I', but it feels as if there is an 'I'.

So no "I" has been found yet, So from DE describe more this "feels like and an I" so we can look under a few more stones.

choices seem to be just happening, like when we drive, or play Bridge!

So the "I" has multiplied to "we" hey! ;-) Just answer from DE. You are on to something here, again thats important, keep looking, is there ever an "I" making a choice, or is it all just happening on automatic, ALWAYS!

Sometimes there seems also to be a battle between the ego (I?) and something else (perhaps itself) regarding making a choice, eg , when to reply.

So like the first quote above, look at the actual ingredients in this "seems", I am guessing there are thoughts, feelings, volitions....all doing a dance. But the key question is, is there an I in any of this. REALLY LOOK DEEPLY to find out. Report back with description so we can zoom in further.

I can't tell you how grateful and excited I am.

You are so welcome, I am really enjoying tuning into this search with you,

Much Love
Smudge

Hi Smudge

Today is a long day for me and tomorrow, so late responding. The rest of the week I'm at home. Thank goodness.

The I feels like thinking, so this is what it is! Just thinking?

Well, it's just all automatic! Crikey. No one's making choices. The thought just thinks.

Yes, so there are thoughts, feelings, volitions all dancing and the result just happens.

You will have gathered that I'm avoiding the quote key.

Love
Padmalaya

PS

Sorry, I'm not describing enough am I.

Have to go to bed.

Bye

Sounding good.
So lets have some examples of choices just happening
Also can thoughts think?Can they DO anything, LOOK!
x

Thoughts can't think. They just arise (as a result of conditions)
.
They can't DO anything.

Bugger! This is hard.

The choice is made to leave my dog inside today because there is a big snake in the pond.
That's not automatic, that's fear.

Choices seem to be made arising from previous experience. For example, I slow down on the terrible road because my car is deteriorating each time I drive over it, so of course I drive slowly.

Or I have coffee when I go to town because once I had a really good coffee.

Aaark. I can't do it! I'll never see the truth.

Whoops.

Love
Padmalaya

They can't DO anything.

Nope, thoughts can't DO anything..INCLUDING CHOOSING!

Bugger! This is hard.

You're doing great! :-)

The choice is made to leave my dog inside today because there is a big snake in the pond.
That's not automatic, that's fear.

OK, so what chose? or did choosing just happen?

I slow down on the terrible road because my car is deteriorating each time I drive over it, so of course I drive slowly.

So slowing down happens, memory thoughts happen....BUT "YOU" slow down, if so describe this youness. OR does thoughts, feeling and slowing down just happen?

I have coffee when I go to town because once I had a really good coffee.

Lot's of "i"s here..what are they? coffee tastes nice, coffee drinking is repeated..but an I choosing...where ?what is it?

I can't do it! I'll never see the truth.

True! there is no I to see it! Well done!

Please answer all my ?'s and give more examples of choosing using the wisdom gained from noticing deeper from the above noticings.

Much love

Ok. So thoughts can't choose. Of course they can't.
I'll be danged if I know what chose to leave my dog inside. It just happened
Hmm...this meeness, there's thoughts, feelings, memories and then slowing down.
Nice coffee thoughts, memories, more coffee pleasure.
Last question to be continued.

Do we know each other?

Love
PA

Nice...keep looking.
Well we know each other now..but not before.
Looking forward to choosing examples.

Me-ness, or 'I' results from a whole lot of choices that have been made in order to preserve the sense of I due to the fear involved in there not being an I, due to ignorance,apparently.

Choice, or volition occurs as a result of the above misconception.

(Tis is analysis, I realise, but 'I'm' going mad trying to write about choice. HELP please.

Love and frustration

Padmalaya :-(

Me-ness, or 'I' results from a whole lot of choices that have been made in order to preserve the sense of I due to the fear involved in there not being an I, due to ignorance,apparently.

Yes, so lets make it real. Simple is the key, its simpler than simple, thats the problem!

Try this:

Close your eyes and sit quietly for 10-15 minutes. Watch what focus does, focus on focussing, attention itself. Do you move it? Or it moves by itself? Hold focus on breath, see how it moves to thoughts, sensations, feelings, sounds. Is this something you control?
What moves attention? Is thinking in control of attention?

Describe what you see.

............

If you did this exercise, did these words on the screen made you do it? Was there a choice to do it or not?

Dear Smudge

Thoughts just come and go, not making any choices about focusing or attention; behind focusing is a kindly awareness holding everything, including 'me'. Relaxing. Always 'where'.

The words on he screen didn't make me do it, awareness was available.

Xxx

Fabulous! So no I found yet!

Lets look at the Kindly awareness/awareness. Is this separate from anything else?

This may help:
carry out the following experiment.

When you point anywhere in the world you point at appearances. You are distant from what you are looking at and you see things, you see objects. Observe this – direct your attention at things by pointing at them.

For example, I can see the shapes and colours of this room…

of my foot...

...of my knee

of my chest...

In all these instances attention is directed outwards, at objects.

Now point where others see your face.

What do you see? You are now looking inwards – turning the direction of your attention round 180˚ from the objects out there to you the Subject, to the place you (think?) are looking out of. Do you see your face? Do you see anything at all there - any colour or shape, any movement?

Looking in to the place where others see your face, do you find colour or shape here.

What do you find?

Take it further: Point with one index finger outwards at the world, and with your other index finger point inwards towards where you used to think your face was. Describe as fully as you can what the experience is like.

I'm on to this Smudge. Was in bed yesterday, unwell, so couldn't respond. Will do exercise today and get back to you.
Love
Padmalaya