guidance, please!

[Space]

See if you can apply the same thinking to the props in society. Let's say society is a video game as well. There is the money in your bank account - some numbers on a screen; some little rectangular pieces of green paper that everyone is crazy about; the little degree hanging on the wall symbolizing that you've been educated, etc. Where is the entity, Erica, that is apparently limited or liberated by these fluctuations in wealth and status? Does anything actually happen to a "you" when the bank account goes from $1.00 to $10,000.00, or vice versa?

[ealow1]

Hi Kian,

I played a video game on my phone and I saw latching onto the character, and reactions from when that character died. I was super pissed that I died right before going onto the next level. I wanted to know what the next level looked like, and I was sick of being stuck in the first level, jumping over the same ledges over and over. I didn’t think I was actually a character in a dangerous world, fearing scary things. I just had this arbitrary need to find out what was in the next level, which isn’t natural and necessary for me to be alive, which resulted in disappointment which is also unnecessary. So I think the “I” comes from my curiosity, or my arbitrary need to know what the next level is, and therefore get enjoyment from the game. Pleasure principle.

Is this looking with my eyes? I’m not sure what really “looking” is, or if I’m doing this investigation thing right.

Erica

[ealow1]

Oh just saw your second post - one moment

[ealow1]

I’m going to answer this question first because it seems easier:

Does anything actually happen to a "you" when the bank account goes from $1.00 to $10,000.00, or vice versa?

When the bank account goes from 10,000 to 1.00, it means I have to do things I don’t want to do for money (put together a resume, go through an awkward interview, the stress of wondering if they’ll pick me, then flipping burgers or whatever for hours and hours). That seems analogous to having to jump over the same ledges over and over to get to the next level like in a video game (do a thing you don’t want to do to get a thing you want). I saw that the need to go to the next level is artificial and actually unnecessary. But it seems like the need to get money to pay rent and bills is necessary, and I don’t have a choice to put the game down.

Where is the entity, Erica, that is apparently limited or liberated by these fluctuations in wealth and status?

To look for Erica, I look in this apartment, on this couch. If I zoom in more then I think Erica is in a brain right behind some eyes. If I zoom in more there are only more body parts, pieces of brains that perceive and react to stuff. Erica is not in there either. Wtf??

[ealow1]

Maybe I could answer the question about the bank account better: does anything actually happen?
I think the need to do those things happens (though that I need to get a job happens), and then later those things happen. An impetus happens.

[Space]

When the bank account goes from 10,000 to 1.00, it means I have to do things I don’t want to do for money (put together a resume, go through an awkward interview, the stress of wondering if they’ll pick me, then flipping burgers or whatever for hours and hours).

I saw that the need to go to the next level is artificial and actually unnecessary. But it seems like the need to get money to pay rent and bills is necessary, and I don’t have a choice to put the game down.

And yet, you react to the video game on an emotional and mental level - it's visceral and stressful, the same as if it were completely real. We can question this and quickly come to the realization: this is unnecessary stress, the video game isn't real, and I'm not in it, so I don't need to get anywhere in it, or avoid anything in it. In fact, I can just put it down, turn it off, or leave it running, and nothing happens to me... but! I kind of feel compelled to play it and invest in it. Yes, that happens. But we can return to our knowledge, "this doesn't matter. It doesn't actually influence me." It's much harder to apply this same thinking to the material and social constructs, but it's the same.

In my own experience, Erica - and I share this with you because I want you to know this is not an abstraction - when the money changes, nothing happens to me, because I am not projecting myself into the world. The concern for safety just doesn't come up, because there is no entity for me to latch myself onto. There is no actual "Kian" that I need to take care of. Mysteriously, life makes some surprising and always unexpected modifications to my situation in such a way that I still have what I need, and don't need to do anything I don't need to do.

I'll repeat: The exact same way we project our sense of self onto a character in a game, we project (or extend) our sense of self onto the personality and this makes our sense of I-ness very susceptible to the positive and negative things that happen in the world. But, if we can pull back from identification, we find that we are not actually influenced by things unless we identify with them.

I am going to sleep soon, so we can pick up on this tomorrow. Listen to this tonight and let me know what comes up for you - questions, experiences, whatever. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohVRK3nlsgQ

[ealow1]

Sounds good - I'm going to let this sink in and post a response tomorrow. Thank you, this is fun!!!

Erica

[ealow1]

Hi Kian,

And yet, you react to the video game on an emotional and mental level - it's visceral and stressful, the same as if it were completely real.

With the video game, I could see that I was having extreme reactions (stress, yelling, cursing), and even though I was wound up in the emotions, I could laugh at that reaction at the same time. I was stressed but there was a lightness to it - I could laugh and even enjoy the negative stuff. I hope that ability will expand.

Mysteriously, life makes some surprising and always unexpected modifications to my situation in such a way that I still have what I need, and don't need to do anything I don't need to do.

What about the people who, if they let go of effort, will actually die? I know that if I fail at things I have family to pick me up, but some people are stuck out on the streets. If i try to answer that question for myself, I see that i want to fix problems and keep everyone from dying, but since there’s no “I” to make decisions about fixing, then I can’t do anything anyway other than what is going to happen. But I know that going through the Gate won’t get rid of the desire to make good things happen… for now just trying to figure out what morality means after going through the gate.

My thoughts on the video:
I wasn’t able to find “me” either. I still want to make something up though to answer the question, where am I. Right now my answer is “it’s my body parts,” and if I cut off my hand or fingernails, the answer is “it’s my body parts that are still connected,” and if I chop me in half, “it’s the half with my head in it,” and if I chop my head in half, “it’s the bigger half,” and if they are the same size, then they are both me, and then I think that’s ridiculous because I can’t be two and I’m stumped. I mean if somebody ate me then at what point during digestion do I stop being me? The only answer is there isn’t me.

How can nothing be a conscious? how can nothing notice things? Is it just a fluctuation in some stuff that senses?

[Space]

Hi Erica,

What about the people who, if they let go of effort, will actually die? I know that if I fail at things I have family to pick me up, but some people are stuck out on the streets.

Like I said, the body and mind do not stop functioning. Effort is needed sometimes, and at others, particularly in this line of inquiry, effortlessness is needed. But effort and non-effort are not generated by some control-center behind the eyes, or at the center of the mind. It's a holistic phenomena, integral the human being, to fluctuate between stress and relaxation. One does not effort oneself to sleep, any more than one efforts their breathing, so there are two simple and absolutely essential examples. What we call "effort" is the activity of stressing the muscular system. For example, even in chewing, there is a hint of what can be called "effort." Same with, say, pooping. Some effort is required... at least for me. lol

However, the stress we are talking about is totally natural, it pertains to reality. The effort of the ego, on the other hand, is wildly unnatural, pertaining only to the imagination making things up, and the body reacting to it like it was real.

but since there’s no “I” to make decisions about fixing, then I can’t do anything anyway other than what is going to happen. But I know that going through the Gate won’t get rid of the desire to make good things happen… for now just trying to figure out what morality means after going through the gate.

Personally, I discourage this line of thinking. If the result of this inquiry were that you would have no freedom left to choose anything, I'd do everything I possibly could to sabotage this entire website, because it would be totally inhumane and destructive. The basic thrust behind enlightenment is to attain freedom. Freedom from the false, and freedom to be spontaneous and happy and fresh in your decisions.

The absence of a personal entity does not in any way deprive one of the sense of being free, having options, being able to make decisions - but these decisions are essentially based on a much fresher, much more vitalized and compelling perception of reality - a reality without an entity at its center to struggle for. The Universe, the world, its people and animals, all become the centerless center. If you struggle, it's for the good of what you see, not what you imagine.

if I cut off my hand or fingernails, the answer is “it’s my body parts that are still connected,” and if I chop me in half, “it’s the half with my head in it,” and if I chop my head in half, “it’s the bigger half,” and if they are the same size, then they are both me, and then I think that’s ridiculous because I can’t be two and I’m stumped. I mean if somebody ate me then at what point during digestion do I stop being me? The only answer is there isn’t me.

Yes. Well - it's that you aren't your body. That's why no matter how many body parts disappear you're still you. Same applies to opinions, thoughts, circumstances, etc.

How can nothing be a conscious? how can nothing notice things? Is it just a fluctuation in some stuff that senses?

Adyashanti is full of shit, as every spiritual teacher is in their own special way. I don't depersonalize the "nothing." It's me. St's not an object, so he can call it "nothing," but in my experience it's me, my self beyond and before identification. If something during this inquiry doesn't make any sense to you whatsoever, chances are it's bullshit, so since this doesn't make sense to you, write it off as bullshit. You have that authority. Whatever people say to you about this search, if it sounds like horse shit to you, don't even think about it. I, for example, don't give a shit about no-self. I never talk or think about it because for me, the affirmation (rather than the negation) is far more experientially relevant. The affirmation is that I exist beyond identification. If I strain my mind I can see that the negative part of this affirmation is that I don't exist as an identity. The succinct (and in my opinion wildly inaccurate and excessively simple) way of saying it is "I don't exist," or "there is no you." When I hear that, I'm confident that I'm hearing a ton of fucking crap. Because I'm right here. I'm just not latched on to the ego and the personality, or any of the things they normally compel me to latch on to.


I feel I'm doing too much teaching and not enough questioning. How do you feel about that? Are our interactions helpful? How can I best serve you?

Kian

[ealow1]

I am pretty thoroughly confused - but I expected that as part of the deal. can we do some questions?

[Space]

Okay Erica,

Where are YOU when playing a game? You are off limits from saying that you are in or around or near the body, and the same goes for the mind. Find YOU without latching it onto an object.

[ealow1]

I think I am whatever is watching my thoughts go by right now. The “awareness.”

[Space]

Is this awareness inherently limited by the story of me?

When does the awareness become limited by the story of me?

What effect does the story of me have on the awareness?

What benefit does the story of me claim to have for the awareness?

[ealow1]

Yes, the story of me is keeping my awareness focused on painful boring things. It doesn't get to explore outside because the story of me is keeping it in bed.

Awareness becomes limited when it is totally wound up in the story of me.

The story of me affects the awareness by drawing it in and making it follow it.

It is something that is often fun and interesting for the awareness to focus on. Sometimes the awareness gets to feel good.

[ealow1]

Everything ok over there?