The Gate

Can you find a real 'I' that chooses, or just a thought that says 'I choose'?

Just a thought.

So what is the 'I' that is doing the walking?

The "I" is only found in thoughts, walking is just happening. There have during the day been different thoughts along with walking, like "I am walking" "the body is walking" and "noone is walking".

I cannot find an "I" that neither chooses nor does anything. Sensations and thoughts come and go.

I cannot find an "I" that neither chooses nor does anything. Sensations and thoughts come and go.

Nice work, Bolle.

We can move on and look at 'I am the subject of experience' as you mentioned earlier.

In general speaking we say things like 'I feel', 'I see', I hear' etc and assume that 'I' is the operator of the senses, and that all these senses report to 'I'.
Let's look into this now.

Let us take the dominant sense 'seeing' for a start.
Right now, this sentence is being seen > AHOY THERE SPLICE THE MAINBRACE AND SHIVER ME TIMBERS HAR HAR
Now, we would say 'I see the sentence on the screen'.
So, what is this 'I' that is doing the seeing?
Examine your experience here and now. What 'I' can you find that performs the function of 'seeing'?
Is there one?
Certainly there is 'seeing', that is without any doubt. But what about this 'I' that does it?
Can you find this 'I' that the function of 'seeing' reports to?

Xain ♥

No. Whatever is examined, there is no seeing/finding ofte any "I".

You may wish to move on to the other senses.

'I hear' - Listen to the sounds in the room right now.
Is there an 'I' doing the hearing? Can you find one?
Or is there just hearing, and 'I hear' is just a thought about the experience?

'I taste' - Is there an 'I' doing the taste?
Or is there just taste, and 'I taste' is just a thought about the experience?

'I feel' - Is there an 'I' doing the feeling?
This can be a more tricky one to examine, as it can be said to have more of a 'body centre' to it.
Does the body feel? Do you experience a body actively doing 'feeling'?
Or is there just feeling, and 'I feel' is just a thought about the experience?

Xain ♥

Whatever category of sensations is examined, there is no finding of an "I". Very often there is a belief in, or sense of an "I", but when looked at it is found to be just another sensation, most often a kinestetic or bodily sensation in the stomach or chest, or a consciousness/being sensation which often seems to be located around the area of the head. Along with all this there are different thoughts. The thougths are not always seen as thoughts right away, but are revealed as such when examined. While all this is happening there are often sensations that are felt like and described by thoughts as some kind of "releasing", sometimes together with sensations of a flickering light if the eyes are closed.

The last sentence may have to do with expectations that are also found here, expressed through thoughts. Especially one expectation has made itself celar: There is expectations of a lasting "shift" that should end the automatic thought processing of, and projecting of, "I" (through thoughts) into the future and past. Thoughts describe this as having to do with an underlying/overarching belief in an "I". There are thoughts saying that this shift might occur when there is collected enough evidence of "no I". The thoughts also believe that after a shift in this belief to "no I", the thoughts will change so that they don't speak of "I" neither in the now or future/past. Thoughts also suggest that after a shift there will be less thoughts about future/past and more attending to sensations in the here and now. The sense of releasing and flickering light is also found to be expected.

It is noticed that the text in this reply is not expressed through "I", but more as "no I". This has been done before, but feels more natural now. This is not to say that the perspective of "I" is gone. The perspective seems weaker, especially when focusing on direct experiencing and when attending to this dialogue. There are thoughts saying that this is "practising" the perspective of "no I", and strengthens the momentum of the "no I" perspective.

There is exitement about this process, and "exited expectment" of your next reply. (During the formulation of this last sentence, the "I"-perspective was very prominent, and it took quite a bit of processing to write it from a "no I"-perspective.)

I hope you're having a good day and I am grateful for the guiding so far :) (The I-perspective won this one!) Looking for the I will establish itself now :)

Great!
There are a lot of points we can go through from your last reply, but let us look at 'thought' just for a moment.

Just like all the other senses, 'thoughts' appear in experience.
In normal speaking, we say 'I think', 'A thought appeared in my mind', 'my thoughts'.
Again, we can look for this 'I' and even push a little further.

Is there an 'I' who has 'thoughts'? Or are there just thoughts?
Is there actually a thing called 'my mind' that you can locate which is where the thoughts are?

Maybe do a little experiment.
Think a thought - Anything will do - Like, er, 'I'm going to make Xain walk the plank'
Now, the questions.
Did 'you' create that thought? Is there an 'I' that made it?
Is there a controller of thoughts?
Can you choose what thoughts to have? Do you know what the next thought that appears is going to be?

If there is no creator or controller of thoughts, and if 'I' itself is a thought, is there anything to prevent the 'I' thought from appearing?

Xain ♥

Is there an 'I' who has 'thoughts'? Or are there just thoughts?

There are thoughts that say that there is an I who has thoughts, but when examined this I is seen to refer to other thoughts or sensations. So there are just thoughts.

Is there actually a thing called 'my mind' that you can locate which is where the thoughts are?

No, the mind seems to refer/point to the "area" of the thoughts, this "area" seems to be in or around the head for thoughts felt like they are created by "me", and stomach-area for thoughts that seems to come from nowhere. But when looking, no mind is found. Then there are thoughts saying that thoughts just are, without being anywhere in particular. I could also say that "mind" seems to refer to a sense of "being" or consciousness.

Did 'you' create that thought? Is there an 'I' that made it?
Is there a controller of thoughts?
Can you choose what thoughts to have?

The answer to all of these questions is "no".

Do you know what the next thought that appears is going to be?

No, there either is a thought or there is not. When experimenting I find that there is no knowing beforehand, because the knowing of a thought appears at the same time as the thought itself.

If there is no creator or controller of thoughts, and if 'I' itself is a thought, is there anything to prevent the 'I' thought from appearing?

No. Thoughts seems to build on each other or shut each other down. But I guess this is inferred (an analytical answer) and not directly observed.

There are thoughts that says that thoughts are like a sixth sense.

Great stuff, Bolle.

No, the mind seems to refer/point to the "area" of the thoughts, this "area" seems to be in or around the head for thoughts felt like they are created by "me", and stomach-area for thoughts that seems to come from nowhere.

I agree about 'head area' and it is my understanding that this comes from continual conditioning that 'the head' is the decision maker and the area where we 'think'. It has 'more of a focus' for us because of this.
As you have found, however, this belief does not match actual experience.

There are thoughts that says that thoughts are like a sixth sense.

I understand. In experience there is seeing, hearing, smell, taste, touch, and also 'thoughts' appear (sixth).

Let us now go back to your reply before last and go over some things.

It is noticed that the text in this reply is not expressed through "I", but more as "no I".

Would it be accurate to say that 'replying appears automatic' or 'just happens'?

There is expectations of a lasting "shift" that should end the automatic thought processing of, and projecting of, "I" (through thoughts) into the future and past.

Two questions spring from this.
If a 'shift' or 'change' is expected, what 'thing' would change or shift?
Ending of automatic thoughts.
What 'I' controls thoughts? What 'I' could cease automatic thoughts?

There are thoughts saying that this shift might occur when there is collected enough evidence of "no I".

When would this be?
What 'I' collects evidence?
If there is no 'I' to be found, then there has never been an 'I', and all that could possibly happen is to recognise this? Would that be fair to say?

The thoughts also believe that after a shift in this belief to "no I", the thoughts will change so that they don't speak of "I" neither in the now or future/past.

Again, what exactly is this 'thing' that will change?
Or to put it differently 'I will have different thoughts' - What is 'I' here?

Was there ever an 'I' in the past? Will there be an 'I' in the future?

Is there an 'I' that has been doing this investigation?
Is there an 'I' that has been replying to my messages?

Is there an 'I' here right now of any form that controls or does anything?

Xain ♥

Would it be accurate to say that 'replying appears automatic' or 'just happens'?

In the past there was no I, so the replies of yesterdays just appeared. When these replies were written, there were thoughts that said that they were written by "me". As writing happens now, thoughts waver back and forth, saying "I am writing", and when looking happens, it is often seen that it is just text appearing, but then thoughts come back and claim doership on behalf of "I", and identification with thoughts come and go. It's like the erratic behavior of a limping man, and it's a funny comedy :)

If a 'shift' or 'change' is expected, what 'thing' would change or shift?

The content of thoughts? Thoughts without "I-perspective"?

What 'I' controls thoughts? What 'I' could cease automatic thoughts?

As there is no "I", noone could cease automatic thoughts. There are thoughts saying that "clear(er) and continous seeing could cease automatic thoughts".

When would this be?

There are thoughts saying this shift could occur when seeing gains more momentum and becomes a continous process..

What 'I' collects evidence?

No "I" exists, so no I is collecting evidence. Still, thoughts say that gathering of evidence seems to happen.

If there is no 'I' to be found, then there has never been an 'I', and all that could possibly happen is to recognise this? Would that be fair to say?

Yes. This is recognized over and over again and thoughts agree and describe the recognition. Moments later other thoughts disagree and reverts to worshipping of "I".

Was there ever an 'I' in the past? Will there be an 'I' in the future?

In reality, now. In the story spun by thoughts the I is still fighting, although injured by Xains canons.

Is there an 'I' that has been doing this investigation?
Is there an 'I' that has been replying to my messages?

No.

Is there an 'I' here right now of any form that controls or does anything?

No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes.

To sum up: there are expectations of, and hope for, clearer and more continuos seeing. This is of course just thoughts.

As writing happens now, thoughts waver back and forth, saying "I am writing", and when looking happens, it is often seen that it is just text appearing, but then thoughts come back and claim doership on behalf of "I", and identification with thoughts come and go. It's like the erratic behavior of a limping man, and it's a funny comedy :)

I like the way you put that - But is it quite clear that there is no 'doer', and that 'I' only appears as a thought?

If a 'shift' or 'change' is expected, what 'thing' would change or shift?
The content of thoughts? Thoughts without "I-perspective"?

What could make this change?
If 'I' is just a thought, what can stop it's return, or 'see things' in a different way?
If there has never been an 'I', then this is the way things have always been perceived haven't they?

There are thoughts saying that "clear(er) and continous seeing could cease automatic thoughts".

An expectation. What 'I' has continuous seeing of anything?

There are thoughts saying this shift could occur when seeing gains more momentum and becomes a continuous process.

A continue process for who?

In reality, now. In the story spun by thoughts the I is still fighting, although injured by Xains canons.

LOL - You should see the size of my cannonballs!

I am fascinated that you believe that there is someone here doing things. You appear to be doing all of the work.
It may appear that I nudge the ship's wheel to port or starboard every now and then, but you are the one rowing this boat . . . or are you?

To sum up: there are expectations of, and hope for, clearer and more continuos seeing. This is of course just thoughts.

Are thoughts saying 'there must be more'?
Believe them or not?

Perhaps you've sailed all the way around the world, only to discover there was never actually anyone rowing?

Xain ♥

I like the way you put that - But is it quite clear that there is no 'doer', and that 'I' only appears as a thought?

Some moments are very clear, others are not.

What could make this change?
If 'I' is just a thought, what can stop it's return, or 'see things' in a different way?
If there has never been an 'I', then this is the way things have always been perceived haven't they?

I like these questions. Throughout the day it is seen that there is still thoughts abouts "something more", and trying. It is seen that this is all story, and not real.

An expectation. What 'I' has continuous seeing of anything?
Are thoughts saying 'there must be more'?
Believe them or not?

Thank you for clearing that up for me. Of course, there is no "I". I've seen that there is belief in/identifying with expectations of more. And of course, there is nothing "more", as there is nothing that is lacking. Everything about more, separation, something else, anything but what is experienced here and now only exists in thoughts. Even what is here and now could be said to just be a thought.

I am fascinated that you believe that there is someone here doing things. You appear to be doing all of the work.
It may appear that I nudge the ship's wheel to port or starboard every now and then, but you are the one rowing this boat . . . or are you?

There is no I doing anything.

Perhaps you've sailed all the way around the world, only to discover there was never actually anyone rowing?

Well put :)

I am very happy I started this process. You've been pointing to a lot of things that needed to be investigated. There is still doubting and the doubts are seen to be thoughts. I keep coming back to the seeing of no "I". And it's seen that these last sentences doesn't make any sense anywhere but in the story of thoughts.

I am very happy I started this process. You've been pointing to a lot of things that needed to be investigated. There is still doubting and the doubts are seen to be thoughts. I keep coming back to the seeing of no "I". And it's seen that these last sentences doesn't make any sense anywhere but in the story of thoughts.

That's great! I am very glad to help.
At this point, you seem to have the realisation and realise all 'expectations' are all thoughts.

Sit back. Relax. No thoughts. No 'I'. No 'expectations'. No 'problems'. No more corny ship related puns :-)

Do you have any further questions or things you wish to examine?

There are a further six final questions to be asked, but I'd prefer to ask them to you only when you are totally clear and happy with this realisation.

Xain ♥

Just checking in to honour the deal about posting daily. I would like to have more time before proceeding. Hope that's ok. Will write again tomorrow. Thank you for your time!

I needed some time to gather myself (pun intended!). I am ready for the questions :)

That's cool. You can still chime in with anything that comes up.
These questions may help 'solidify' the realisation, or bring unexplored areas to the surface.

Here are the first three of six.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference (if any) from before you started this dialogue to now?
Please report from the past few days.

3) Was there a point at which the realisation was made? Maybe a comment or something you examined that pushed you over, made you look?

Xain ♥