seeking guidance

[smudge]

Nice,

It is seen that the “I” referred to here is nothing but a thought

So how does walking, breathing and daily activities happen? Take this into your day and report back.

(BTW: To quote just highlight and click quote, when you post it has worked)

[jake711]

Good morning.
Will do!
Thank you for your help, btw, I really appreciate it!

[smudge]

You're most welcome :-)

Looking forward to hearing.

[jake711]

I woke up this morning with everything taking care of itself:
the making breakfast, the answering emails, the making calls…. walking, breathing, …all of it going on by itself.
Around noon, lots of thoughts of sadness, smallness and despair coming up.
A thought that seems to pop up like mad is:

“This is not about a belief in a No-Self. There is no one, to have a belief”

Then looking happens and thoughts come to a full stop.
Before they come again, and this particular thought keeps coming up.
Like a broken record player.

[smudge]

All of it going on by itself.

Certainly is!

OK, lets move on to control: “Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.”

Give lots of description in direct experience.

You are doing great!

[jake711]

Okay.
I have a blue and a black pen here and I am about to pick one up.
Staring at the two pens and looking for the actual chose-point, the point where I could go either way.
Thoughts come up with question, such as “What will you use the pen for?”
Staying focused and watching for the pivot point in choice.

My left hand just picked up the black pen.

A thought of surprise, because the last thing I looked at was the blue pen; (also, I am right handed.)

This is fascinating.
I tried it again, this time with the lid of a bottle and my phone charger.
Which one would I pick up? Staring at both items, almost zooming in on them, then seeing them together, sitting right next to each other. Imagining the feel and texture of both things in my hand without actually touching them.
While (!!!!) thinking about and imagining how the metal spikes of the charger would feel between the thumb and index finger, the left hand reaches out for the lid.

It’s very subtle to see but…. there is no choice-point, it just happens.
I fail to describe how choosing happens.
It just does.

[smudge]

Nice work!

It’s very subtle to see but…. there is no choice-point, it just happens.

So it all happens on automatic yes?


Lets look closer at thoughts, can you choose to think a thought? Can a thought DO anything, What is a thought?? Keep full descriptions coming. Where do thoughts come from? Where do they go??

You are right!

This is fascinating.

[jake711]

It all happens on automatic, yes.

I cannot know what a thought is.
I find chatter, commentary, the voice in the so-called mind and pictures or images.
I do know thought is real, the content (pictures, images) is imagined but appears to be real.

Thought cannot do anything, however I observe that thoughts with lots of content create tiredness or stress in this body.
I know this is not about getting rid of thought, this is about seeing that there is no one who could get rid of anything or get anywhere.
So no, thoughts cannot do anything, however they appear (!) to influence the body.

It is impossible for me to say where thought originates or goes to.
It’s a mystery.
Also, I cannot hold on to a thought, or let go of it, or cut it in half or stop it.
It’s like trying to outrun your shadow.
One is always just a little too late.

[jake711]

(When I say, I do know that thought is real, I mean it's a thing. It's like a pen, or a book. It's an object. )

[smudge]

Is a thought as real as a pen or a book? Say how? Describe a thought as fully as you can.

Take your time and look deeply, I will reply in the morning UK time, I see you are in USA?

Do this: Please actually DO this exercise, simple as it may seem: Take a sultana (or small piece of food) and look at it, now close your eyes and think about it, how 'did' it look? what do you 'think' it will taste like? How do you feel about the prospect of eating it or even about doing this exercise? Now put it in your mouth and directly experience it. Whats that like? What is the difference between thinking about, feeling and actually experiencing from this exercise?

Till tomorrow,
Smudge

[jake711]

Thank you!
Yes, I am on the East Coast (but originally from Austria).

[jake711]

Is a thought as real as a pen or a book? Say how? Describe a thought as fully as you can.

Is a thought as real as a pen or a book? Say how? Describe a thought as fully as you can.

Looked again and concluded:

It cannot be as real as a pen or a book, but it is what labels a pen as a pen and a book as a book.
Thought is dividing, labeling and categorizing and creating “stuff.”
I see, thoughts are what is generally known as the mind.

I cannot say that thought is unreal, but instead of actually being an object, it’s a function.
Wait, there is no such thing as thought!
There is only thinkING, happening.
It’s a process.

Do this: Please actually DO this exercise, simple as it may seem: Take a sultana (or small piece of food) and look at it, now close your eyes and think about it, how 'did' it look? what do you 'think' it will taste like? How do you feel about the prospect of eating it or even about doing this exercise? Now put it in your mouth and directly experience it. Whats that like? What is the difference between thinking about, feeling and actually experiencing from this exercise?

Berries it is. Blueberries, to be exact.
How do I feel about this exercise?
There’s curiosity and a sense of playfulness.

I take one blueberry, put it in front of me and look at it.
Then I close my eyes and try to picture it. I can see it clearly, but only very briefly, the image gets blurry and fades within a second. My mind (?) has to “reloaded” it , but it only turns out as an image with a “lower resolution.”
Then I imagine how it tastes, how it feels in my mouth and try pull up memories from the last time I had blueberries.
It’s a hard thing to do!
LOL
I just put it in my mouth and it didn’t taste or feel like anything I imagined!
This is a raw and fresh experience!

My imagination was wrong. Not just a little, it was totally wrong.
How can that be? Again, this is fascinating.

Thinking and feeling about it have nothing to do with the actual experience.


There is fascination and confusion.

[smudge]

Lovely to read your berry exercise. So keep it as simple as this. You could see that the thought about the experience of a berry was radically different from the actual experience. Same with a pen, spend time seeing the difference between thoughts about things and the things themselves. Thought is just a labelling machine!

Keep checking this out throughout the day, lets really make this clear.

And, lets keep looking at what emotions are throughout the day, fascination and confusion, where and what are emotions in actual experience. Describe fully.

I look forward to hearing, keep it super simple. x

[jake711]

The thought “I have a feeling I am not seeing it clearly” keeps coming up, followed by the question “who or where is this ‘I’ not seeing it clearly?” - silence.

Things just keep on happening on automatic:
Getting up, taking a shower, work, emotions, worry, expectations, asking “who or where is this ‘I’ not seeing it clearly?”.

Yesterday’s fascination and confusion was followed by a wave of aggression and anger.
I could not sleep, felt the urge to do something and went to the gym (at night), to get the energy “out”, so to speak.
I noticed frustration about “my” current situation, here in this inquiry and about my situation in life generally.
The thoughts came to a full stop when the question “Who’s situation? Who’s life?” kept coming up.
Also, anger & frustration arose, followed by thoughts, not the other way around.
Weird.
There appears to be a psychological clearing out going on but I really have no idea, … I’m just reporting what’s happening.
This morning it was seen clearly that even the most subtle stories (e.g. This apple tastes good!) are all made up and that they force experience in boxes and drawers, when it is in fact boundless. This insight of “no one” alternates with an identification with thought, screaming “this is all bogus! YOU are here!”!
Really? Am I?
“I” keep looking.

[jake711]

...who is identifying with thought!