requesting a guide

[journeygirl]

I slept like crap.. there is so much doubt arising -- I'm not sure if I can trust what I'm saying. I feel like I'm trying too hard. I want it so badly to see... This me that doesn't exist drives me crazy.

[journeygirl]

The first time I looked I doubted my experience and then looked over and over again. But I wrote this the first time I looked... but then didn't send it. This just may be a story but my mind is trying to stomp on the looking. It's trying so hard to figure this out it's giving me a headache.

my original experience was this -- I noticed a few seconds BEFORE I even thought the thought that santa clause was real I felt a slight jolt of energy and it seemed orangish.. my upper body felt newly charged in a strange way-- then there was lots of movement and color shifting behind my eyelids. Then my mind shut it down with doubt... and the stories started. "This can't be real, it didn't happen at the right time, it doesn't happen exactly the same every time so it cannot be valid"

maybe life is moving through me and then my mind takes credit.

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy. Happy Thanksgiving!

I feel like I'm trying too hard. I want it so badly to see.

Yes. Desire is great, up to a point. Trying hard is usually unhelpful. Looking is very simple and effortless, like checking for keys in your pocket. Just look to see what you're actually experiencing directly, minus the thoughts about it.

This just may be a story but my mind is trying to stomp on the looking. It's trying so hard to figure this out it's giving me a headache.

Yes, it's a story. And this isn't something that can ever be figured out. It can't be grasped in thought. It can only be experienced.

You say "my mind is trying..." What does that actually mean? Can you find your mind when you look? If so, what does it look like, feel like, sound like, taste like, smell like? Or do you simply notice a succession of thoughts arising, and among them thoughts that label this experience by calling it "my mind"? Look! Which is it?

maybe life is moving through me and then my mind takes credit.

Ah! Very nice insight! Now put this together with the inquiry about "my mind." What do you get? If mind is merely a succession of thoughts, what does "my mind takes credit" really mean?

With Love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

There is no mind.... and there is no "believer" either. They don't exist--- either of them. How can that be? What is believing then? I couldn't find anything that believed - yet there is an illusion the mind is believing in thoughts. What the heck? nothing is believing but yet believing is happening. is that a story? Then there are no stories? Stories are happening? Where are the stories coming from? How can nothing be so convincing to something that doesn't exist. This is weird.

[Steve]

Excellent, Nancy! Yes, it can feel strange when shifts like this happen. It's a good sign!

Nothing is believing but yet believing is happening.

Yes, good, and now you have the tools to take it further. Look back at my questions about distinguishing a thought believed from a thought not believed. Or you could view it as distinguishing "believing is happening" from "not believing is happening."

Look again. Now that you see it as "believing is happening," what is the mechanism?

A thought arises, "Phoenix is in Arizona." Something else happens that gets labeled as "believing is happening." What is that something else?

Another thought arises, "Santa lives at the North Pole." Something else happens that gets labeled as "not believing is happening." What is that something else? What's the actual difference?

Here's another exercise. Sit quietly and close your eyes. Notice the experience of thinking. Can you decide to think or not to think? In other words, can you stop and start thoughts at will? Can you decide what to think? Can you decide what the next thought will be? Can you predict what the next thought will be?

After you've looked and answered each of those questions, consider these: Are you the one that thinks? Is there a "you" who is the thinker? If it feels as if you are the thinker, does that accurately reflect what you experience directly when you look?

With Love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

Hello Steve!

The believed arising "thought" is based on another belief or thought.... an interpretation of another experience of something. I remember -- I just noticed my phone ringing and it was an 888 number and belief arose that it was a telemarketer. I had a flash of feeling of irritation based on other times it's happened. Lots of flashes of memory of a recording playing and having to wait until the end of the recording to push a button to get on the do not call list. It actually wasn't true because there was nobody on the line when I picked it up. Then I believed it was a malfunction because I believe they are all dirty rotten buttheads... another belief (thought). There are all tangled up.

The "not believed thoughts" are also based on memories, and decisions made about what's true.

[journeygirl]

Here's another exercise. Sit quietly and close your eyes. Notice the experience of thinking. Can you decide to think or not to think? In other words, can you stop and start thoughts at will? Can you decide what to think? Can you decide what the next thought will be? Can you predict what the next thought will be?

I can't control my thoughts... there is an illusion at some points because something will tell the thinking to think something but even that is not controlled by me. "Think about an elephant" arose and it felt like I told my brain to think that but there where did it come from? not me. There are times when it really feels like I am controlling my thoughts or at least controlling my focus... but it isn't me. That also shows that I'm not deciding anything either. It seems like the next thought is comes from habits in the brain and that I'm not actually directing anything. It seems that might be able to predict the next thought based on what thoughts have happened before (the patterns) but I cannot know for sure. Thoughts are repetitive and commentary.... But there is no me to predict anything because predicting is just more thinking. NOTHING is thinking. There is nothing controlling the thinking. I cannot see, hear or feel anything controlling the thinking...that's why it's so hard to not think it's me. There is just thinking happening when I look.

[Steve]

Beautiful, Nancy! Very well observed!

Okay, you've seen that you are not the thinker, the believer, or the mind. That's excellent. Now we'll look systematically at some of the other areas where a separate "I" is commonly thought to reside, starting with experiencing the senses.

In the next exercise, you'll look at direct experience to answer the question, "Is there a separate 'hearer'?" Or, "Does the experience of hearing require a 'hearer'?" Or, "Who/what is hearing?"

Sit comfortably and close your eyes. You can either focus on a specific sound that's already present (hum of air conditioner, twittering of birds) or you can create a sound (or have someone do it for you) by ringing a small bell, tapping with a pencil on a wine glass, tapping with a wooden spoon on a metal mixing bowl, or whatever is at hand.

Focus on the direct experience of hearing. (Repeat the sound as often as you need to.) Really notice what is directly experienced as hearing, before and apart from any thoughts about what it is or how it must be happening.

Look to answer these questions:

Do you experience a sound separate from the hearing of the sound? In other words, is there an unheard sound lurking somewhere, waiting to be heard, and then you hear it? In direct experience, can there ever be an unheard sound? If not, then sound and hearing must be one indivisible experience.

Do you experience a 'hearer' separate from the hearing? Do you hear a hearer? Do you see a hearer? Do you touch a hearer? Do you taste, smell or feel a hearer? Really look closely! Is there a hearer anywhere to be found? Do you experience a hearer in any way, shape or form?

Now, having looked deeply into the direct experience of hearing, what do you see about the original questions:

Does hearing require a hearer? Who or what is hearing?

With Love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

Do you experience a sound separate from the hearing of the sound? In other words, is there an unheard sound lurking somewhere, waiting to be heard, and then you hear it? In direct experience, can there ever be an unheard sound? If not, then sound and hearing must be one indivisible experience.

I have noticed this in the past...I work downtown and have to walk a bit to get to my building. There are always lots of noises happening- traffic, construction, stop light sounds etc.. One day it hit me... I realized quite suddenly that the sounds were not happening "out there". I saw that every sound was only happening in me... only because I was aware of the sounds. But it really wasn't I that was aware.. it was awareness itself. I feel like I'm quoting a teacher right now but its the only way i know how to describe it. It felt like I was also "feeling the hearing" or maybe it was the energy down there.

The same is true when I listened just now. There is no sound out there. sound is only happening.

Do you experience a 'hearer' separate from the hearing? Do you hear a hearer? Do you see a hearer? Do you touch a hearer? Do you taste, smell or feel a hearer? Really look closely! Is there a hearer anywhere to be found? Do you experience a hearer in any way, shape or form?

The brain is hearing and interpreting the sounds. But upon closer inspection hearing is just happening. It just sounds like sounds... the sense "hearing" is hearing. I'm trying to stay out of the "figuring it out neighborhood" because this just hurts my head... So many questions arise that cannot be answered.

Thanks for your patience and compassion.

Peace and love,

nancy

[journeygirl]

Hi Steve,

I'm leaving early tomorrow for the retreat in California (Asilomar) and won't have access to communication devices... including my voice. It should be interesting. All day I've running around doing errands and noticed lots thoughts that turn into a feelings that this world is crazy. This journey has been a little confusing. I guess that's just a story too. I'll be back on December 6th or 7th.

I hope to interact before I leave but if it's not possible I'll talk to you when I return.

Thank you very much.

Peace,

Nancy

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy. The retreat is coming at a good time. You've been looking at what you experience directly, and you've been finding that it doesn't match your preconceived notions. It's great work. Keep it up!

I'll give two sets of questions you can look into during the retreat, plus a simple guideline for looking further.

One extends the inquiry about hearing and thinking into the other senses and mental functions. You've already looked at some of these. You can find creative ways to look at the direct experience and discover what's actually there.

Does hearing require a hearer? Who or what (if anything) is hearing?
Does seeing require a seer? Who or what (if anything) is seeing?
Does touching require a toucher? Who or what (if anything) is touching?
Does smelling require a smeller? Who or what (if anything) is smelling?
Does tasting require a taster? Who or what (if anything) is tasting?
Does thinking require a thinker? Who or what (if anything) is thinking?
Does feeling an emotion require a feeler? Who or what (if anything) is feeling?
Does believing require a believer? Who or what (if anything) is believing?
Does choosing require a chooser? Who or what (if anything) is choosing?
Does deciding require a decider? Who or what (if anything) is deciding?

And this one is good to keep in mind or return to whenever it occurs to you:

There is no "you." Is it true? Look!

In looking, if you encounter something you feel might be a "you," look closer. See if you can discern its constituent parts. Here's an example:

(1) It feels as if there's a "me" looking out of my eyes.
(2) But I know that seeing is just happening. I can't see a seer, so why does it still feel this way?
(3) I notice subtle muscle contractions around the eyes and in the forehead.
(4) I notice a thought that identifies those slight contractions as relating to my eyesight in particular and my sense of being present in general.
(5) I notice a thought "I'm looking at this. I'm seeing."
(6) I see now that the feeling in (1) was nothing more than a combination of (3), (4) and (5), plus the belief that they add up to a "me."

And relax. Once you've started this kind of looking, it has a way of unfolding on its own. There's no need to force anything. Enjoy the process. I look forward to hearing from you after you return!

With Love,
Steve

[journeygirl]

Thank you for your patience and compassion......i look forward to talking when I return. Have a great week.
Peace and love

[journeygirl]

Hi Steve,

I'm back... I'll be writing more about my experience tomorrow but I'm sleepy and need to go to bed. The retreat was amazing and I had lots of epiphanies. I'm so grateful for the experience and the silence... it was such a relief to not have to talk... nothing to figure out or anyone to please. There is a shifting of energy happening.

I hope your week was peaceful.

Peace!
Nancy

[journeygirl]

Hi Steve,

I've been running around getting ready for re-entry for work tomorrow so no time to write much.

There was lots of looking happening while on retreat. I mostly relaxed and rested in awareness during meditation but also looked inward to see if I could find the hearer-- I could not find anything hearing... only the hearing was happening. I also noticed that my mind wanted to make sense of the sounds. For instance, when sounds were happening at different distances away- my thoughts interpreted the sounds to be happening "out there" somewhere. But then I noticed it was a habit to put "a place" on the sounds when actually it was only hearing.

Then I tried to find the I that smells and it was interesting to realize that "I" had no power (perceived) over smelling happening-- I couldn't shut off the smelling or turn it on. Smelling just happened. This is unlike thinking. During thinking, the perception is that there is some control over thought. There are thoughts that arise and seem to have no thinker but there are other thoughts that seem like I'm in control because of focus. I tell myself to focus and focusing happens but the thought to focus happens too. It's easier to see myself not in control when thoughts arise out of the blue, which happened a lot during meditation. It was like little bits and pieces were flipping through my consciousness without seemingly relating to anything that was going on or anything that I had even thought about for years. It was strange but I just went with it all with a big "yes".

I was very conscious the whole time (meaning I was attentive to the commentator without believing). The ego seemed to get desperate to throw something that would hook me into thinking.

[Steve]

Hi, Nancy. It sounds like a wonderful retreat. Great!

But then I noticed it was a habit to put "a place" on the sounds when actually it was only hearing.

That's excellent! You're noticing subtler distinctions between direct experience and the thoughts about it.

Then I tried to find the I that smells and it was interesting to realize that "I" had no power (perceived) over smelling happening-- I couldn't shut off the smelling or turn it on. Smelling just happened.

Very good. Are all the other senses the same? Can you turn them on and off or choose their content? Are you the hearer, seer, smeller, taster, or toucher?

This is unlike thinking. During thinking, the perception is that there is some control over thought.

Look closely. Do you experience control directly? What does it look like, sound like, taste like, etc.? Or is it a lot like what you noticed about hearing location: a habit or a thought about a thought?

I was very conscious the whole time (meaning I was attentive to the commentator without believing).

Please elaborate on this, sticking with direct experience.

The ego seemed to get desperate to throw something that would hook me into thinking.

This sounds quite a lot like speculative thought, also known as fiction. :) What direct experience(s) led you to this? How can you describe it again, staying as close as possible to what you experienced directly?

With Love,
Steve