Request for a guide

[Xain]

I feel lost, it all does not make sense at this point.I feel very harsh on me.I feel me or this 'I' is stupid and can not get it and put all this information together.

Things may appear a little crazy and confusing, as I am asking you to answer questions that you may never have considered before. Please have confidence, and take this investigation very slowly and carefully.
Take a breath, smile :-)

There also seems to be an 'I' that observes the other 'I' disappearing.This feels liberating but at the same time very puzzling as you say.

Well, let's look at this.
Clearly there is SOMETHING here right now. That is obvious.
If we said 'there is nothing here' then that would require 'something' to be here to say it! :-)
The question is 'what'? This is what we want to find out.
Perhaps it is this SOMETHING (let's not name it or describe it) that wants to get rid of 'I'.

Keep things very simple. In this investigation, all we are doing is looking directly to see if there is a separate 'I' here right now.

As we have looked at, in order to find out something right now, all we can use is the senses to find the answer or we can get the answer appearing as a thought. Yes? Your 'Direct experience' of this moment.

There is an 'I' that looks at this sentence of the screen but who am I really?

Ok. Don't go too fast. Keep things very simple.
So you have managed to identify an 'I'. Ok, using your direct experience describe this 'I' to me, the one that can see this sentence on the screen. Tell me exactly how this 'I' appears right now.
For example, this 'I', is it found using the senses or is it the content of a thought?

Xain ♥

[kyprch]

Hi Xaim,
Thanks again for your message.I appreciate it a lot especially noticing that you quickly come back to me
It was a busy day today.I wanted to apply some of what we worked with in my everyday life and not much came out of it.
Perhaps you are right when you say that I need to slow down , breath and smile, after all I feel I am in good hands,
At this time I still feel this split in two.An 'I' that is chasing another 'I'.
I was touched by your description of Something needing to be there even to just state that there is 'nothing around.
For the moment my senses allow me to be aware and define my 'I ' as a body, that is at this moment lying in bed, having a headache , at moments relaxing my muscles and at other moments feeling them contracted.
I am able to hear different noises coming from the street and also feeling the air breeze coming from the open window.
Yet at the same time my awareness is clouded with thoughts , stories, worries, fears, emotions of joy alternating with disappointment and frustration.This 'I ' as the above body feelings and vacillating thoughts, keeps looking at the sentences am writing on the screen.Is there another 'I' looking at this 'I'?
Thanks
Chris

[Xain]

Hi again Chris

I wanted to apply some of what we worked with in my everyday life and not much came out of it.

No. There is nothing to 'work with'. This is not a practise of any kind. No time is needed for the search what-so-ever, and all questions can be answered immediately.
You can 'contemplate' these things we discuss by all means, but lapsing into analysis and thought will not assist you.

Look! - Can you see this sentence on the screen?
Yes - Of course. This sentence is therefore 'real'.
Look! - Can you find an 'I'?
Is this 'I' you describe immediately apparent or not?
If 'I' exists, shouldn't it be immediately obvious, just like this sentence?

Perhaps you are right when you say that I need to slow down , breath and smile, after all I feel I am in good hands,
At this time I still feel this split in two. An 'I' that is chasing another 'I'.

If this is so, then look and find this 'I'.
Am I 'this'? Am 'I' that? What about 'this'?
I feel that you are bombarding yourself with questions. Just keep things very simple, and concentrate on one thing alone if you can.

There is an 'I' that looks at this sentence of the screen but who am I really?

Let's look at this one area. Keep things very simple.
You say there is an 'I' that sees this sentence on the screen. OK.
Using your direct experience describe this 'I' to me, the one that can see this sentence on the screen. Tell me exactly how this 'I' appears right now.
For example, this 'I', is it found using the senses or is it the content of a thought?

I am able to hear different noises coming from the street . . .

Good, so this 'I' is able to heard sounds. As we normally say 'I hear'.
Ok. Using your direct experience right here and now describe this 'I' to me, the one that can hear sounds. Tell me exactly how this 'I' appears right now.
For example, this 'I', is it found using the senses or is it the content of a thought?

Xain ♥

[kyprch]

Hi Xain,
Thanks for your message.I think I can better understand what you mean and will try to share it.
This sentence I look at on this screen is real as I can perceive it with my senses.
Where's at the same time there is no actual 'I' to perceive with the senses.'i' seems to just be the content of thoughts.
While thinking about the experience of hearing ,it occurs to me that I can not locate and describe an 'I' other than the content of thoughts.
Hence what you probably mean is that hearing , seeing , touching, tasting , smelling just happens by itself and there is no 'I' there to do them apart from the 'I' that is the content of our thoughts.
Chris

[Xain]

Hence what you probably mean is that hearing , seeing , touching, tasting , smelling just happens by itself and there is no 'I' there to do them apart from the 'I' that is the content of our thoughts.

Yes, but is that actually true?
Don't take my word for anything - You must look and find what the answer is.

It was a busy day today.I wanted to apply some of what we worked with in my everyday life and not much came out of it.

Well, I did mention this was not a practise, but we can look at this also.
You are saying that there is an 'I' that wants to apply the work we are doing.
Again, look in your experience here and now - Describe this 'I' to me - The one that is going to apply the work.
Don't think - LOOK! What is this 'I'?

Xain ♥

[kyprch]

Xain hi,
I am trying to see what you mean.This 'I' I know of is an 'I' that has been thinking and thinking all his life.
I probably feel at an impasse.I do not know what this 'I' you are talking about is.I feel confused and lost.Can you help me? Maybe all I can do is think and think and look at theory.
What is this 'I' that wants to apply the work afterall? Is it something that is just thinking? Something that wants approval and is just hiding? I feel I need your help
Chris

[Xain]

I feel confused and lost.Can you help me? Maybe all I can do is think and think and look at theory.

Yes, of course I will help you. But you must STOP THINKING - You must look using all your senses and find the answer.

Can you see this sentence? How much thinking do you need to see this sentence?
Can you find an 'I'? How much thinking will you need to find it - Or how much thinking will you need to do to realise that 'I' is just a thought and that there is no 'seperate I' here?

This 'I' I know of is an 'I' that has been thinking and thinking all his life.

Ok - This is another 'I' that you have mentioned - One that thinks and has a 'life' in which thinking has happened.
Once again, what is this 'I' you are mentioning - What do you mean?
Is there an 'I' here that thinks? If there is, describe that one to me.
Or do thoughts just 'appear'?

Do you know what your next thought is going to be?
If you don't, then how are these thoughts 'Yours'? If you don't know the next thought, then do you control them?
Is there an 'I' here thinking them? LOOK - Is there? Or do thoughts just 'appear'?

Is there an 'I' that you can find that 'has a life'?
Or is this nothing but a thought?

Can an 'I' that you are telling me about here actually be found?

Xain ♥

[kyprch]

Xain hi,
I am very grateful to you for being of immediate help.I can see that looking at a sentence on the screen is very mechanical and there is no need for an 'I' to notice and read it.Yes there is no 'I' here other than the thinking about it.
I guess I can not find an 'I' here no matter how much I think about it.
I keep finding myself immersed in my worries, fears, uncertainties confusions.Yes most probably 'I''is just a thought and there is no separate 'I' here but why do thoughts have so much power over us?
The 'I' that has been thinking all his life is something I can not find or define for sure.Certainly I see pain, worries, fear and guilt and maybe see myself having experienced that pain , frustration and wrong choices of my life.
But then who made these wrong choices and now suffers for them?Can I just say this was not me and care less about what is going on in my life.
Yes I see that I do not know what my next thought will be.They seem to happen automatically.It is like machinery I do not seem to have control of.And yes I do not see an 'I' here that is thinking them.
I guess there is not an 'I' with a life of its own and just thoughts, but where do these thoughts come from?
Thanks

[Xain]

Good. You seem to be making progress.
Really look into this. Find out what is really happening in your experience.

I can see that looking at a sentence on the screen is very mechanical and there is no need for an 'I' to notice and read it.Yes there is no 'I' here other than the thinking about it.

Really good - But just check this - Make sure it is true.
This sentence is seen. It is read.
Saying 'I see, I read' - Is there anything more to this than just a thought?
Many consider the 'body' to be 'I'. Do you experience a 'body' doing these things?

Things happen and the mind takes ownership of it 'I'.
'I see', 'I read'. This is a THOUGHT about what is happening. But there is no actual 'I' doing it.
Is this true in your experience?

Yes most probably 'I' is just a thought and there is no separate 'I' here but why do thoughts have so much power over us?

Well two parts here.
'Most probably' won't do you for I think. You need to be certain.
What 'I' is the one that thoughts have power over?
Identify the real 'I' - Describe it - Tell me what it does. How do thoughts have power over this 'I'.
Or is this just a thought about a thought?

Thoughts appear to have power. It can be said that a 'person' is conditioned by many factors, how to act, how to behave, how to think. All this goes on automatically. There comes a point, however (maybe this is the point for 'you') that those thoughts are examined for truth. What do the thoughts say? What do they point to?
Are they actually pointing to anything real?

Certainly I see pain, worries, fear and guilt and maybe see myself having experienced that pain , frustration and wrong choices of my life.

"There was a 'person' that appeared to make wrong choices."
Is this anything real? Is this anything more than a thought?
Do you experience a body making choices? Do you experience a 'mind' making choices.
Or do choices just appear to be made?

Is there a person here RIGHT NOW capable of making a choice?
Was there ever a person in the past who was capable of making a choice?

Can I just say this was not me and care less about what is going on in my life.

No - Or rather, answer this question yourself.
What 'I' is here now that can say things? Describe this 'I' to me.
Is there a separate individual 'I' here that has 'a life'? Or is there just 'life'?

Is there an 'I' that chose to start this conversation?
Is there even an 'I' here right now that is doing this investigation?
Or are all these just thoughts about what is happening, and nothing more?

I guess there is not an 'I' with a life of its own and just thoughts, but where do these thoughts come from?

Answer this for yourself. Can you locate a place that they appear from (or even 'go to')?
Do you experience a 'body' thinking? Do you experience a 'mind' thinking? Or is there just 'thinking'?

Xain ♥

[kyprch]

Xain hi,
Thanks for your kind words, they are very encouraging.I can see this sentence on the screen and at the same time am aware that there is no need for an 'I' to be there.There is a process taking place.Even senses work on their own .Thoughts are attached to them and many stories unfold.It is a good excuse to feel this body that is thought to be me as part and parcel of the thoughts.
The body does the thinking on its own.I can not locate an 'I' doing the thinking ,seeing , the writing.I can certainly feel something in the background watching all this happening.
Yet that does not last long and then enmesh meant with thoughts takes over.Stories take over.Yes it is all thoughts.
The 'I' am aware of it's just thoughts.I am trying to find this 'I' and can not find it.The body looks to be working on it's own.I now feel my body on this bed, it's weight , the contact with the mattress.it looks to have a life of its own.
The 'I' that experiences the power of thoughts is yes another thought.It is like a thought fighting with another thought.
There are choices been made by a bunch of thoughts organized in a story put upon stage to justify a story that in return supports them.
Thoughts seem to come from nowhere and seem to be connected with the life of this body.
Thanks

[kyprch]

Xain hi,
I posted a message yesterday and do not see it on the guiding area.Could you please inform me if you received it?
Thanks
Chris

[Xain]

I posted a message yesterday and do not see it on the guiding area.Could you please inform me if you received it?

Hi - Yes - I will reply to your message now.

The body does the thinking on its own. I can not locate an 'I' doing the thinking ,seeing , the writing. I can certainly feel something in the background watching all this happening.

We need to be specific here, and I apologise if we are going over old ground but I need to just clarify if you are 100% clear on this or not.
We say 'I think' and so we look for the 'I' that does the thinking.
You seem to be saying that the body does the thinking. Do you experience a 'body' thinking?
Or does thinking just 'happen'?
Is there a 'thinker' here? Can you find one? Or are there just thoughts?
Could it be that saying 'I think' is just a thought about what is happening, and not ACTUALLY what is happening?

Yet that does not last long and then enmesh meant with thoughts takes over.Stories take over.Yes it is all thoughts.

Good - There is no controller of thoughts. If thoughts appear, or an experience 'doesn't last long', there is nothing that can possibly alter it.

The 'I' am aware of it's just thoughts.I am trying to find this 'I' and can not find it.The body looks to be working on it's own.I now feel my body on this bed, it's weight , the contact with the mattress.it looks to have a life of its own.

Very good.
One thing I did was to walk along the road - Then look at a branch swaying on a tree.
It struck me that the legs were not being controlled. Also, the branch swaying in the breeze was not being controlled.
It was ALL just happening? Is this possible do you think?

How are you feeling?

Xain ♥

[kyprch]

Xain hi,
Yes thinking has been synonymous with an 'I' that thinks.Hence 'I' think.I understand the habit of saying and believing that I think.Yet at the same time feel closer to the position of no thinker.I sometimes manage to just observe my thoughts, feel detached from them and loose sight of an 'I'.It does not last long but it happens.
I still often look at the thinking as part of the mind and hence of the body , even though as I said earlier I can at times be at a position of an observer without an 'I' around.
Now I also wonder whether all am saying here is theoretical, coming up from the non duality books I read.I still feel confused although I notice some change and feel nice at times.
Since childhood there has been a feeling of not being good enough and a need to fix myself.
I still look at this work we are doing as a way to fix my self , get enlightened and solve all my problems.
I wonder who is having these expectations.Is it this thought that claims to be 'I' ? And what about the other thought that thinks of this thought?
All my life have been trying to control my thoughts and hence it is a relief to know there is no controller , because who claims to be a controller is just another thought.
Cars are passing and there is hearing of the noise from the engine of the cars and still there is a pressure in my stomach. A thought comes up " Am I going to make it this time or is it going to be another of those failed attempts"?
But then who is going to make it, who is not good enough?
Thanks
Chris

[Xain]

Now I also wonder whether all am saying here is theoretical, coming up from the non duality books I read.I still feel confused although I notice some change and feel nice at times.

I understand. But now is time to find what the truth is. Actually, look into your experience and find out what is actually happening.

Since childhood there has been a feeling of not being good enough and a need to fix myself.
I still look at this work we are doing as a way to fix my self , get enlightened and solve all my problems.

So there is an 'I' here that feels not good enough and needs fixing.
Describe that one to me now as you see it right now in the immediate moment.

Is there an 'I' here right now that can get 'enlightened'? How does that one appear?

I wonder who is having these expectations. Is it this thought that claims to be 'I' ? And what about the other thought that thinks of this thought?

You must search and find the answer out. Search for this real 'I' that you keep on referring to.
Can you find one? Or is all this nothing but thoughts about thoughts about thoughts?
Thoughts certainly appear. That cannot be denied. But is there a separate 'thing' having them?

A thought comes up " Am I going to make it this time or is it going to be another of those failed attempts"?
But then who is going to make it, who is not good enough?

Indeed - You must find the answer. Can you find this one? The one that is going to make it or not make it?
Or is there no separate 'I' anywhere at all, other than in a thought?

Xain ♥

[kyprch]

Xain hi,
Thanks for your message.what is actually happening is at times looking deeply does not bring up a clearly defined 'I'
Yet what about this entity that is me, that interracts with the world, with my family, friends?
Is it just thoughts ? If I admit it is just thoughts, wouldn't it just be a compromise or a fake situation?
Thoughts keep happening on their own but life needs an entity to handle it's everyday activities and issues.
This 'I' that needs fixing is the person that does mistakes, that could have been much better and maybe work more and try more.
The 'I' that wants to be enlightened is comparing itself to others and looks at its flaws as well as the need to get it and liberate itself.
The 'I' that has expectations is the product of the thoughts that is not good enough , that keeps comparing itself and it is just conditioning, thoughts , memories, sensations.Hence I can not find a concrete 'I' .There des not seem to be a separate entity having them.
The one that wants to make it is like a bunch of thoughts that I still doubt though as far is existence is concerned.
I see that there is no separate 'I' but is this true?
Thanks
Chris