Wanted: Seeing eye Guide

[Pallavi]

Buying is exchange with money.

Owning is something that 'you' create. Like you said. 'you' create the desires from the rock. They do not exist.

Replace rock, with 'experience'. See, when we try to own experience and it does not work out for us, we start to kick our own ass?


You fall. When you fall are you thinking that 'you' are falling or is falling just happening?

It's after the fall that you think you should have been careful right?

Take a look now. Is it Steve that is breathing? Is Steve required to breathe? Or can it happen on its own?

[olbuds]

It happens on its own unless I think about it, then I think I am breathing

[Pallavi]

Yes. It's the same with falling.

Please answer the other questions. Is Steve required for breathing to happen?

Is it Steve/I that is thinking, or is thinking happening on its own?
Can you control your thoughts? Can you stop thinking for 10 mins?

[olbuds]

No, Steve is not required for breathing to happen

Thinking happens on its own

No I can't control my thoughts

No I can't stop thinking for 2 seconds

Confused about directed thinking, planning problem solving; does that just happen because it's required?

[Pallavi]

Lets say you go to have some ice cream.

You want chocolate flavoured ice cream.

Is it 'you' that is wanting?

Does the liking of chocolate have to depend on the existence of 'Steve'?

[olbuds]

I don't know any other way to relate, yes it fells like steve is doing the wanting based on past experiences.

[Pallavi]

:)

Alright, lets feed a baby chocolate. It likes chocolate and eats it. Did it choose to like chocolate? They just like it or not right?

Did it have to be Steve to like chocolate?

[olbuds]

Yes, you're right

I like chocolate because I like choclate

[Pallavi]

Is it 'you' who is liking?

Go back to the rock example.

Replace rock with experience and your fingers with 'I'.

Experience exists whether you point at it or not right?

What happens when you start owning the rock? - You suffer.

Can you own experience?

Does breathing belong to Steve?

[olbuds]

experience is a memory , which makes it a thought, which may or may not evoke an emotion
Therefore I can't own an experience

I correct myself, a memory is a past experience

A current experience is just happening, it exists on its own but its confusing because my actions can effect the experience. I can be a factor to the experience or not thereby altering the experience thereby taking away the stand alone element of experience

Breathing does not belong to Steve, breathing is breathing

liking or not liking still seems personal

[Pallavi]

Does the past exist in front of you now?

Memory is a thought, you are right.

Isn't your action a part of experience?
What makes you own it?

The room is cold. The is a feeling of coldness. The thought comes to turn on the heater. You turn it on.

Did you control the thought to turn on the heater?

Does altering the experience mean 'you' chose to alter it?
Does experience stand alone or are you a part of it?

[olbuds]

the past does not exist in front of me now

Yes, my action is a part of experience

A person can't actually own an experience, a person can be part of or involved with an experience but cannot own it

I can't say that I controlled the thought of turning on the heater, its a thought, can't control thoughts or stop thoughts

altering is an action, actions are initiated by thought or impulse, I can't control thoughts or stop thoughts, but I can control my actions therefore I can act on a thought or not.
So its confusing because you can't control thoughts but you can control your actions, so it feels like you chose to alter experience

Just hit me, because you're involved in an experience doesn't mean you're altering it, it only means you're part of it.
Still a little confusing

Feels like I am part of the experience, but I don't own it

[Pallavi]

You're getting there :) Doing well

Don't worry about confusion. It arises out of thinking and reasoning.
We can't reason out reality. We can only report what we see from our direct experience. That is all that exists.

The thought to act on a thought: that is also a thought right?

Is it you that is acting?

You're right the experience constitutes you as a part of it- whether there is alteration or not.

[olbuds]

you are right, the thought to act is a thought

Here is where confusion lies, if there is no me then the thought is acting using my body as a vehicle?

[Pallavi]

Thoughts about things create stories.

There is only life and experience. We will get to that :)

Before the thought came that 'you' were breathing, you were just breathing right? Is the thought that you are breathing required for you to breathe?