Thread for Estevita

[richardcooper2k]

Hi Estevita

Just thought i'd post Joan Tollifson's latest post on Facebook as it seemed relevant and i thought you might find reading it useful :

Joan Tollifson
Tuesday
We can really get ourselves tied up in knots trying to figure all this stuff out mentally—how this teaching compares to that teaching and which one is right and how the universe works and what it all means. And we can get swept away in stories about not being good enough, needing to improve. Whenever we notice that kind of mental activity happening, maybe it is possible to stop THINKING about all of this and instead simply allow ourselves to be fully aware of the present moment—the sounds of wind rustling leaves, whooshing traffic sounds, a horn honking, the cry of a bird, the scent of flowers, the smell of exhaust, the changing shapes and colors all around us, the sensations of breathing, all the different subtle tinglings and vibrations throughout the body. Can we simply be fully awake to the wonder and beauty of this present happening, just as it is, before it gets labeled, judged, analyzed and explained? Nothing that shows up needs to be resisted or regarded as a distraction: the sound of loud machinery, a barking dog that doesn’t stop yapping, too much heat, too much cold, an upset stomach, lots of busy thoughts, a fingerbiting compulsion that won’t let up….whatever it is, is it possible in this moment to simply let it all be exactly as it is?

And as thoughts arise (“This can’t be it, this is just traffic noise, there has to be more than this, what about ultimate reality and final enlightenment, I’ll never get it, I’m a hopeless case, this isn’t working, so-and-so said it was all about bla bla bla”), is it possible to SEE that these thoughts are merely thoughts—old, conditioned stories-beliefs-ideas that are not actually true? Can we listen to them in the same way we listen to the traffic sounds, as simply little bursts of energy that come and go? Is it possible to rest in the utter simplicity of what is, just as it is? Nothing needs to be attained, nothing needs to be pushed away, nothing needs to be different. Simply the texture of this moment, exactly the way it is, however it is…pleasant or unpleasant.

Even if we feel tense, agitated, restless or anxious, even if we are full of thoughts that seem as persistent as deer flies or mosquitoes, even if we are hyperventilating with anxiety or compulsively biting our fingers, what would it mean, right now, to allow ALL of that to simply be as it is? Instead of labeling and judging it, instead of condemning how it is, instead of resisting it and fighting against it and trying to stop it, instead of the endlessly looping stories about why it is the way it is and what it means and how it needs to go away and what we should do to get rid of it, is it possible to simply let it be, to experience it as bare sensation without a story?

Is it possible for a moment to drop all the ideas that this present happening is undesirable, unbearable, neurotic, screwed up, unenlightened, not okay, and to see this tension or this compulsive behavior or this depressed feeling or this queasy sensation or this restless energy with the same loving attention that we might give to a beautiful flower, a magnificent landscape, or the face of our beloved? Is it possible right now to not want anything to be different, to have no expectations, no agenda, no goal, no intention, no story, no past, no future?

Can we see that even tension, contraction, fingerbiting, and obsessive thinking about past and future are nothing more than a momentary wave-like movement of this one, undivided happening? Can we see that it is actually impossible to leave Here / Now or to avoid this present happening or to BE anything else, even if THIS momentarily takes the form of contraction, uncertainty, confusion or seeking? Can we see that EVERYTHING that appears is nothing but energy vibrating or waving in different ways, like the waves in the ocean, all of it a seamless and impersonal (ownerless, authorless) movement from which nothing stands apart? This hearing-seeing-breathing-sensing-thinking-awaring-being is without borders or seams. It is ungraspable and inconceivable, and yet utterly unavoidable and totally obvious.

It’s not a matter of thinking about this, and then grasping it with the intellect and holding onto it as a belief or a mental understanding. Nor is it about having some special, exotic experience other than the experience that is arising right now. It’s about relaxing into the utter simplicity of what is, however it is right now, allowing even the tension and the contraction and the regret and the resistance and the seeking to be just as it is.

And it’s about waking up to the wonder that is all around us: the sound of rain, a flock of birds in the sky, the shapes and colors of a crushed-up cigarette package in the gutter, clouds reflected in a puddle on the sidewalk (clouds blowing across the sidewalk), the scent of lilac, a rusted pipe, a hummingbird darting over the blossoms on a tree, the sounds of the washing machine, the smell of rain, the ache of grief, the delight of laughter…

THIS is God (the sacred, the Holy Reality, the Ultimate Truth, nirvana, the gateless gate, liberation, enlightenment). The Holy Reality is not someplace else. And just notice when thought pops up and insists that this can’t be it, that this isn’t enough, that there has to be more, that something is missing…SEE how the mind begins comparing and judging and evaluating and spinning a story about yesterday, tomorrow, and forever after…a story that always has “me” at the center of it. And recognize that even that story that plays momentarily in the theater of the imagination is itself nothing but the One Reality dancing the dance of Maya, ALL of it as fleeting and ephemeral as a momentary flash of lightning.

If we’re LOOKING for the Holy Reality or the Truth or unicity or God or enlightenment or liberation, we’re looking in the wrong direction. If we’re looking for SOMETHING (this but not that), whatever we find will be another object, another passing experience, another flash of lightning. Just as the eye cannot see itself, it is impossible to perceive or conceive the nondual Totality, for nothing stands outside of it, and yet, wherever we look, whatever we touch, whatever is heard, there is nothing that is not THIS, for this is all there is, and ALL of it is fully present Here / Now.

“How can ALL of it be present Here / Now?”—the mind may ask. “What about the other side of the world and all those millions of other people who are not appearing right here in my field of vision at this moment?” But if we look more deeply, we find that whatever appears can only appear Here / Now, and that every apparent form is made up of and contains everything it is not. Without EVERYTHING in the whole universe being as it is, without the sunlight and the soil and the vegetables and the rocks and the explosions in a distant galaxy, this sentence could not appear right now. ALL of that is here in this sentence. Each new moment in each unique movie of waking life is like one of those jewels in Indra’s Net, each a reflection of all the others. Everything is full of everything else, all of it one interdependent whole happening, and wherever we look, it is always THIS, the infinite and all-inclusive boundlessness.

But again, don’t get hung up in THINKING about this. Words like “THIS” and images like Indra’s Net are only descriptions or sign posts. If a pointer doesn’t immediately wake you up to Here / Now, let it go. Discard every belief and everything that can be doubted and see what remains. And if you’re LOOKING for what remains, once again, you’re overlooking what is right here, what cannot be found because it cannot be lost—the simplicity of what is, before thought arises and says, “I don’t get it,” or before it wonders, “Is this it?” “Have I got it yet?” The bare actuality of Here / Now is impossible to doubt.

Here / Now is completely indescribable and inconceivable—and yet, here it is, obvious and unavoidable: the undeniable appearance of these words, the sounds of the washing machine, the sensations of heat, the light coming in the window, the space in which it all happens, the awaring presence beholding it all, the breathing, the seamlessness, the ungraspable fluidity and emptiness—ALL of it one whole arising/dissolving.

And if all of these words seem confusing or incomprehensible, is it possible not to fall into trying to figure it out with thinking, or trying to have some special experience, or trying to “get it,” or trying to see Ultimate Reality as an object? Is it possible instead to simply relax into hearing the traffic sounds and feeling the breeze on the skin and seeing the way the light dances on the leaves? Just this. THIS is the miracle, the Holy Reality, the truth. You already ARE what is being sought. It is totally inescapable. It is all there is. And remember, EVERYTHING is included. So even if you can’t stop seeking, even if what shows up is depression, fingerbiting, physical pain, anxiety, or compulsive thinking, THIS too is the Holy Reality. There is no escape. We are never really lost, for there is no one to be lost or found. There is only life, as it is—beyond comprehension, beyond belief, and yet unavoidably present Here / Now.

[richardcooper2k]

Hi Estevita

Is everything OK ?
I posted twice in a row in case you hadn't noticed
There are some questions for you in the post before the quote from Joan

Richard

[Estevita]

Dear Richard

Yes, all OK, just a desperate need to be and not do. I have started the response to your previous post, and have now come to finish it. Sorry about the delay.

So grateful to you for looking out for me. Response coming in a while.

Estevita

[Estevita]

Dear Richard

Thank you so much for being there and for sharing Joan Tollifson's post with me. Her post made me gasp with delight. When she says that everything that is happening is happening here and now, and when you say,

'If I close my eyes and just notice bodily sensations a picture of the body seems to automatically form in my mind. If I meditate for a while this picture can fade. It is a form of labeling being superimposed on the bare sensation'.

When you both say this, I get it!!! There is a form, but the sensations that this form is experiencing are not me, or mine. They are just sensations that are arising and passing in everything, everywhere. I am yet another expression of life manifesting, life happening. When I write this, a lightness and joy appears. Yesterday morning, as I woke up, this lightness and joy appeared (as it does briefly most mornings) but yesterday morning it went on and on. As I look out of my window into the garden now, a branch heavy with baby apples is swaying in the wind. I am able to look at it and just stay with the sensation of seeing it without that old familiar story behind it. My heart feels full and expansive!

I am also groping my way into understanding that whatever arises is life happening and not happening to me, including the unbearable pain that I have been experiencing for months. I appreciate it when you say:

'When there is pain or discomfort, there is a tendency not to fully "meet" and "stand in" the experience. Instead there is the tendency for thoughts to come up often along the lines of "something is happening to "me. This creates the appearance of separation between the sensation of pain and an illusory self existent only in thought.".

You ask: 'How does this fit with your experience when you look in real time?' As I write, I am experiencing pain on the right side of my body, it has been there for a while. If I stop to examine it, it feels like the point of a knife digging into my side, it is strong, but there is nothing behind it, it is just the sensation of pain. I could even say that pain is arising and not try to localise it to a particular point in my body. If I look at it that way, the pain is just pain. I've experienced this pain before and in the past I have gone into 'what organ is on that side of my body? I wonder if there is something seriously wrong! etc etc'. As Joan Tollifson says,

Is it possible for a moment to drop all the ideas that this present happening is undesirable, unbearable, neurotic, screwed up, unenlightened, not okay, and to see this tension or this compulsive behavior or this depressed feeling or this queasy sensation or this restless energy with the same loving attention that we might give to a beautiful flower, a magnificent landscape, or the face of our beloved? Is it possible right now to not want anything to be different, to have no expectations, no agenda, no goal, no intention, no story, no past, no future?

(I stopped here this morning in my reply to you as I had a few things to attend to, and I now continue).

You ask:
- 'Are you plastering this story line or is it just more thoughts coming up ?' and 'Again, we are not trying to stop this happening. We have no control over it. Isn't it just another story, habitual thoughts arising? Who are they arising to ? The more this is seen, they start to loose their power. Be kind to yourself and the arising thoughts.' This is so new, I have always referred to it as 'me' and 'my storyline'. There has been an element of judgment when my storyline comes up. You are saying that the storyline is just more thoughts coming up. Yes, it takes away the 'I' from the equation. I can see that whatever arises, just is. It is not arising in 'my' mind.

- Do thoughts have experience, are or they a part of experience ? Thoughts are part of experience.

- Is there something that gets attached, labels and gets distanced from reality ? Yes, at some point in my early life I attached to the idea that I need to be loved and accepted, and to the fear that I would not be (this has lost its power since 7th January this year). All this was mostly unconscious but dominated my life, labeled experience and distanced me from reality.

Richard, for at least the past 10 years I have needed to stop and approach life in a different way. This was so clear to me but I was trapped in a demanding job which made it difficult for me to understand what it was that I needed instead. I was lucky to be able to stop work 3 years ago, and the urgency to 'be' rather than to 'do' has increasingly made life difficult for me, to the extent that every time I 'do' and get busy in the same old way, I just want to scream. It is only now, that I am beginning to understand what it means to 'be' rather than 'do'.

Thank you Richard, for helping me in this. With an open heart full of gratitude to you.

Estevita

[richardcooper2k]

Yes, all OK, just a desperate need to be and not do. I have started the response to your previous post, and have now come to finish it. Sorry about the delay.

No problem at all. Just wanted to check you were OK with things

When I write this, a lightness and joy appears. Yesterday morning, as I woke up, this lightness and joy appeared (as it does briefly most mornings) but yesterday morning it went on and on. As I look out of my window into the garden now, a branch heavy with baby apples is swaying in the wind. I am able to look at it and just stay with the sensation of seeing it without that old familiar story behind it. My heart feels full and expansive!

Lovely to notice the difference it makes when experience arises without the thought story; even if we have no control over this.

I am also groping my way into understanding that whatever arises is life happening and not happening to me, including the unbearable pain that I have been experiencing for months. I appreciate it when you say:

'When there is pain or discomfort, there is a tendency not to fully "meet" and "stand in" the experience. Instead there is the tendency for thoughts to come up often along the lines of "something is happening to "me. This creates the appearance of separation between the sensation of pain and an illusory self existent only in thought.".

Good. Remember intellectual understanding can be a useful reminder, but only to the extent it leads to looking and recognizing this in experience in real time. Seeing and feeling it happen.

You ask: 'How does this fit with your experience when you look in real time?' As I write, I am experiencing pain on the right side of my body, it has been there for a while. If I stop to examine it, it feels like the point of a knife digging into my side, it is strong, but there is nothing behind it, it is just the sensation of pain. I could even say that pain is arising and not try to localise it to a particular point in my body. If I look at it that way, the pain is just pain. I've experienced this pain before and in the past I have gone into 'what organ is on that side of my body? I wonder if there is something seriously wrong! etc etc'

Good. Nice looking

There has been an element of judgment when my storyline comes up. You are saying that the storyline is just more thoughts coming up. Yes, it takes away the 'I' from the equation. I can see that whatever arises, just is. It is not arising in 'my' mind.

Right. so the storyline and the judgement of the story line are all just thoughts coming up along with everything else in experience. A good one to notice.

Is there something that gets attached, labels and gets distanced from reality ? Yes, at some point in my early life I attached to the idea that I need to be loved and accepted, and to the fear that I would not be (this has lost its power since 7th January this year). All this was mostly unconscious but dominated my life, labeled experience and distanced me from reality.

OK, and what do you see of this now ?
Was there ever something that could get attached or has it been feelings and thoughts arising all along ?
We are not denying the existence or intensity of these thoughts and feelings.
But is there a self experiencing them or that they refer to that can be found outside of thought ?
Is there a self to be distanced from reality or is separation an illusion too ?

I was lucky to be able to stop work 3 years ago, and the urgency to 'be' rather than to 'do' has increasingly made life difficult for me, to the extent that every time I 'do' and get busy in the same old way, I just want to scream.

I find this very interesting and can relate to it. It seems connection with experience arises more when we are being. When things start getting more busy, there is a stronger tendency for identification with thought and emotion to happen. This change can be painful and causes suffering. But insight does not arise so easily in a god realm where there is no suffering. When we notice suffering it can alert us to look for its cause. And in doing so more delusion/conditioning falls away or energy gets unblocked, however you like to think about it. So although we don't want to be overwhelmed in a hell realm, i think enough suffering to enable us to look into the sticking points is a good thing. Approaching this with kindness seems to help. This may not be as relevant to where you are i suppose. How does this relate to your experience ?

[Estevita]

Dear Richard

It is so good to be having these communications with you, it is helping me clarify so much. Thank you for your time.

You ask: 'OK, and what do you see of this now ?' (ie attachment to my ego edifice). Very little, actually. Seeing so clearly at the beginning of the year the 'self' I related to has taken the sting out of experience. Thoughts still arise about not being good enough, being left out, etc, but they are not touching me in the way they used to. It's almost as if I am watching them rather than being immersed in them.

You ask: 'Was there ever something that could get attached or has it been feelings and thoughts arising all along ?' It felt as if there was attachment and continuity because the same thoughts repeated over and over again, like a broken record. But using the level of understanding that has arisen since we have been communicating, it appears to be just feelings and thoughts arising all along. But there seems to be something addictive that needs to keep on repeating the same thoughts and feelings. And as I am writing this to you, I feel tension, strong tension in my body, in my neck and head, in my arms, in my chest.

I am glad you follow up by saying: 'We are not denying the existence or intensity of these thoughts and feelings' because the existence and intensity is there, I can feel it in my bones, as it were.

You ask: 'But is there a self experiencing them or that they refer to that can be found outside of thought ?' No, there is no self experiencing them, the 'self' has been confused with the intensity, repetitive and addictive nature of the thoughts that arise. So the illusion of a 'self' is only present in thoughts.

You ask: 'Is there a self to be distanced from reality or is separation an illusion too ?' This is profound indeed! If I am fully present with whatever arises no matter what, turn towards it with acceptance, then there is no self, then there is no separation. I got a strong sense of recognition when you wrote in your previous posting:

'When there is pain or discomfort, there is a tendency not to fully "meet" and "stand in" the experience. Instead there is the tendency for thoughts to come up often along the lines of "something is happening to "me". This creates the appearance of separation between the sensation of pain and an illusory self existent only in thought."

Well, this is what it has all been leading to. No self and consequently no separation. If I am aware of the reality being experienced in this body, ie that sensations are just bare sensations that arise and pass away without me controlling them, then I am aware of all reality. If I am aware of all reality, then there is no separation. This sounds conceptual but when I asked you why did I feel the sensations in my feet and not in Phil's feet, and you replied:

'If I close my eyes and just notice bodily sensations a picture of the body seems to automatically form in my mind. If I meditate for a while this picture can fade. It is a form of labeling being superimposed on the bare sensation'.

There is just bare sensations, in me and in every other form. If I am aware of bare sensations, of life just unfolding, then there is no separation. Wow!

You ask: ' How does this (ie suffering allowing us to see the sticking points) relate to your experience ?' All the time I have been experiencing pain and despair, I have been aware that it is part of the unfolding. I get overwhelmed by it but I know that 'this too will pass' when I 'get' what the pain and suffering are pointing at. I have reached a stage in my life where I don't mind whether I am going through pleasure or pain, so long as I feel I am moving forward in terms of unfolding. I am fully aware that the pain is pointing at something I am missing and I need to understand. I suppose the frustration has been that I cannot understand what it is I am not understanding! But our communications are helping me 'get' it. Slowly, I am edging towards it.

Thank you so much, Richard. With appreciation as always.

Estevita

PS you manage to put quotes in these lovely boxes that makes reading your messages so much easier. How do you do it? I want to facilitate you reading my posts too.

[richardcooper2k]

But there seems to be something addictive that needs to keep on repeating the same thoughts and feelings. And as I am writing this to you, I feel tension, strong tension in my body, in my neck and head, in my arms, in my chest.

And there seeming to be something addictive and the feelings of tension are part of what make up the self illusion, yes ?
Can you find an experiencer of them ?

I have reached a stage in my life where I don't mind whether I am going through pleasure or pain, so long as I feel I am moving forward in terms of unfolding. I am fully aware that the pain is pointing at something I am missing and I need to understand. I suppose the frustration has been that I cannot understand what it is I am not understanding

Do you have a sense of what the pain needs ? Maybe it isn't understanding ?

PS you manage to put quotes in these lovely boxes that makes reading your messages so much easier. How do you do it? I want to facilitate you reading my posts too.

Ok, so here's what i do
1) Click quick reply
2) Click full editor
3) Copy and paste the text
4) Highlight the pasted text
5) Click on quote

[Estevita]

Dear Richard

I am going to sit in the garden with these two questions and see what comes up for me. Will respond soon.

Estevita

[richardcooper2k]

Sounds like a good plan (i hope the weather is better over there) :-)

[Estevita]

Dear Richard

A productive afternoon in the garden, despite the rain, or should I say including the rain, the breeze, the cars humming past, the birds, the butterflies, the bricklayer cleaning a pile of bricks...

'And there seeming to be something addictive and the feelings of tension are part of what make up the self illusion, yes?
Can you find an experiencer of them?

I reflected on the question, 'Who is Estevita?' Estevita has a body and because of the body there are the sensations of sight, sound, touch, taste, smell, thoughts. These sensations are arising and passing away all the time. The body is experiencing itself, moment by moment. Each sensation is fresh and new. It is not 'me', or 'my' experience, it is just life unfolding. There is no difference between this form and any other form. There are no boundaries, no barriers. This form is reflecting the reality of all other forms. All there is, is life unfolding. As Joan Tollifson says: 'Can we see that even tension, contraction, fingerbiting, and obsessive thinking about past and future are nothing more than a momentary wave-like movement of this one, undivided happening?'

So, what else is there? Apart from body and sensations, there is a labeling in the mind. Habitual patterns of thoughts, feelings, emotions, bodily tensions which keep coming back to a sense of 'me'. Because they are habitual and repetitive, they give the illusion of continuity, of a self. But these habitual patterns of thoughts, feelings, emotions and bodily tensions are also sensations that arise and pass, arise and pass, and are not under my control. All there is, is life unfolding. They are neither pleasant or painful, they are just sensations.

So, is there an experiencer? Because there is a body, there are sensations. But looking and questioning reveals nothing behind these sensations. The sensations are just life unfolding, moment by moment. Everything happens by itself. 'I' control nothing. There is just awareness.

'Do you have a sense of what the pain needs? Maybe it isn't understanding.'

What 'my' pain needs if for me to fully experience and love it, just as I would experience and love a stunning sunset. As Joan Tollifson says:

'Is it possible for a moment to drop all the ideas that this present happening is undesirable, unbearable, neurotic, screwed up, unenlightened, not okay, and to see this tension or this compulsive behavior or this depressed feeling or this queasy sensation or this restless energy with the same loving attention that we might give to a beautiful flower, a magnificent landscape, or the face of our beloved?'

When looked like that, pain is just another sensation to be amazed at, another sensation arising and passing away.

With loving gratitude.

Estevita

PS Would I be able to share Joan Tollifson's posting with my sisters?

[richardcooper2k]

Sorry Estevita, i did write a post yesterday but it's not here
By the way i am of on holiday at the weekend for 3 weeks. I can keep going with you but may not be able to post every day

These sensations are arising and passing away all the time. The body is experiencing itself, moment by moment.

Does the body experience sensation. Are they separate ?

So, is there an experiencer? Because there is a body, there are sensations. But looking and questioning reveals nothing behind these sensations. The sensations are just life unfolding, moment by moment. Everything happens by itself. 'I' control nothing. There is just awareness.

Does experience appear in the body or does the body appear in experience ?



When looking happens, is there any sense of self remaining ?
Are there any remaining doubts to look into ?

The quote from Joan Tollifson i copied from her Facebook page. I assume since it is posted there it is fine to share

[Estevita]

Dear Richard

Thank you for your mail. I will leave it up to you, as you know best about this process, but it doesn't seem right for you to be on holidays and still be writing to me. I would greatly appreciate continuing the process as I feel I am getting so much understanding from it, but I would quite understand if we paused for a while. As I say, I leave it up to you.

Does the body experience sensation. Are they separate ?

There appears to be a body separate from sensations, I look at myself and think there is a skeleton, blood pumping through my veins, the head, torso, limbs, etc. And this body experiences sensations. So it appears to be two things. And yet I know that when there is 'real' understanding then the emotions, feelings, thoughts are felt in my bones, blood, cells. And, I had a strong realisation a couple of days ago that nothing is separate. As I have been sitting here, reflecting on your question, it became quite clear that there is a body with sensations and' I' do not control any of it (eg if I think 'I'll shut my eyes and then I am controlling what sensations come in through the eyes' it becomes clear that thinking and labelling has kicked in). When I sense that all there is, is body/sensations, then there is a clear sense of there not being any boundaries. There is only, for example, sound and hearing arising and passing away. (Re-reading this paragraph which I wrote this morning, I can say with confidence that body and sensations are not separate.)

Does experience appear in the body or does the body appear in experience ?

Throughout my life, experience has always appeared to happen in the body. But as a result of certain recent realisations and of my communications with you, Richard, that is an old belief that is falling away. The result of experience appearing in the body is 'self'. I am sitting in my garden writing this and there are things arising and passing all the time: a butterfly fluttering past, the sound of a car engine, the rattling of a cement mixer, a horse neighing, the intermittent sound of a drill, the tweeting of birds. All that is part of experience, as is the breeze blowing in my face, the pressure of my feet on the footstool, the bright red geranium glowing in the sun, all of that is also part of experience, not 'my' experience. There is no experiencer, there is just experience arising and passing moment by moment and an awareness of experience.

When looking happens, is there any sense of self remaining?

Yes, when looking into the present moment, thoughts of 'I' do arise, less frequently than before I started this process with you and they do not attach in the same way. I was just sitting in the garden, just being with present moment experience (which 'I' seem to be able to do for longer) and then thoughts of, 'I did this, so and so did that' arose in 'my' mind. But 'I' was able to catch the thoughts and they did not emotionally affect 'me'. It is as though there's a recognition that they are thoughts and not 'me'.

Are there any remaining doubts to look into?

It is such early days! A shift has definitely happened but a very subtle and gentle one (unlike the realisation on 7th January this year which provoked a loud 'A-ha' - very strong!). So the thought of, 'is it real?' comes to mind. As I am caring for Phil at the moment, I am mainly at home sitting in the garden reflecting. It is easy to 'be' in these circumstances. When the 'doing' starts up again, will the old habitual patterns again emerge? How does one consolidate this wonderful feeling of 'being'?

Thank you so much Richard.

Estevita

[richardcooper2k]

When looking happens, is there any sense of self remaining?


Yes, when looking into the present moment, thoughts of 'I' do arise, less frequently than before I started this process with you and they do not attach in the same way. I was just sitting in the garden, just being with present moment experience (which 'I' seem to be able to do for longer) and then thoughts of, 'I did this, so and so did that' arose in 'my' mind. But 'I' was able to catch the thoughts and they did not emotionally affect 'me'. It is as though there's a recognition that they are thoughts and not 'me'.

OK Estevita. The subtlety of this is we are only trying to see what is going on. And in that we recognize we can't change it. This includes thoughts as you have already noticed. So thoughts about "I" will continue to arise, about no one and to no one, with no one controlling them(at least for the time being, an old habit whose momentum will decrease if looking continues to happen). The illusion of there being a self or "selfing" is also likely to arise as well with no one controlling/doing it. But when you look, is it clear there is nothing to be found in experience that is "self" ?

Are there any remaining doubts to look into?


It is such early days! A shift has definitely happened but a very subtle and gentle one (unlike the realisation on 7th January this year which provoked a loud 'A-ha' - very strong!). So the thought of, 'is it real?' comes to mind. As I am caring for Phil at the moment, I am mainly at home sitting in the garden reflecting. It is easy to 'be' in these circumstances. When the 'doing' starts up again, will the old habitual patterns again emerge? How does one consolidate this wonderful feeling of 'being'?

For a lot of people this is a very casual and ordinary noticing. Others get the bells, whistles and flashing lights too. For me it was just a quiet "oh yes, that's just how it is" moment. When doing starts again, old habits may reemerge, but who will be doing them ?
The wonderful feeling of being is a gift that comes along with this that we are not in control of. The real McCoy is simply the recognition of what is real and what is label. Whatever thoughts arise are irrelevant. We are just gaining the confidence to stand in experience regardless of what thoughts arise.

What is the body other than sensation, the seen and thought projection ?

[Estevita]

Dear Richard

But when you look, is it clear there is nothing to be found in experience that is "self" ?

There has been a clear recognition of the thoughts and labelling that I have subconsciously associated all my life with the idea of me and which have caused so much grief for me and those around me. I had an experience, as you know, on 7th January this year. Not only did the 'self' become clear but it was clearly seen as not real, an illusion. Further, underneath the illusion, the unity of Amitabha's Infinite Love appeared as the One Reality of which everything partakes. It is almost as if something scooped up every aspect of the label 'I' and slapped it round my face and said 'Look at it! See it for what it is!'. But the experience was not complete. With your guidance Richard, the realisation has gone to the next step. Not only has every aspect of the label 'I' been scooped up, but I feel in my bones and in my cells that there is nothing else left, there is nothing behind the illusion called 'I' except habitual thoughts and labelling, which are still emerging but without the same effect. I have read about and reflected on non-self for the past 24 years but got used to the idea that seeing through it took aeons, so it was as if it was something that had nothing to do with my present reality. Lack of trust and confidence denied the experience.

It is my birthday today and my son and his girlfriend took Phil and I out for lunch. Amy, as usual, directed most of her attention to Phil and mostly left me out of her field of vision as she spoke. When I was so caught up with the 'self', which silently whispered in my ear that I was not good enough, not lovable, not acceptable, I would get caught up with emotions around being left out by her and others and all sorts of thoughts would knot themselves up. Today, I could see what was happening, it's no big deal, she gets on better with Phil than with me and she is quite an introvert and so is Phil, and that's OK. The overall feeling-tone that started to come up was one of pain (not emotion) but I caught it as it was arising and I calmly sat there observing what was going on. There was discomfort but the emotional pull was not there!

There is the momentum the self has set up which doesn't just stop but seeing the 'I' as thoughts and a label has enabled me to put something down and relax deeply.

Whatever thoughts arise are irrelevant. We are just gaining the confidence to stand in experience regardless of what thoughts arise.

A strong response saying 'Yes!' comes up when I read these words.

What is the body other than sensation, the seen and thought projection ?

Richard, I am not sure I understand this question. The seen (if considered as something happening out there, not, as in the seen only the seen) and thought projection reinforces the 'self' and creates separation. The body and sensations are one, no separation here.

I am so amazed at your dedication to this process Richard. A big thank you! Have a great holiday, I hope you can rest, enjoy, relax and have a wonderful time.

Estevita

[Estevita]

Dear Richard

There is the momentum the self has set up

I've just been re-reading my response to you and want to correct the above. The self does not exist, so it has not set anything up. It should say something like, 'thoughts and labelling not controlled by the 'I' keep repeating' - sorry about this correction but I think it is important to be precise.

Estevita