I would like some help please

[vinceschubert]

Robin, that was pretty good. About 50% experience and 50% thoughts.
But anyway, the important stuff was experience...

Idea's seem to come out of nowhere

So, experientially, thoughts just arise?
Now, experientially, is there a 'you' that produces those ideas ?

[Robin.]

So, experientially, thoughts just arise?
Yes. Thoughts just arise in my experience

Now, experientially, is there a 'you' that produces those ideas ?

There used to be a me that I believed produced these thoughts. Now intellectually, I can see, and firmly believe that there is no-one produces any kind of thought. They just arise. Thoughts happen.

[vinceschubert]

Now intellectually, I can see, and firmly believe

"intellectually" & "believe"
Are they words you used from habit or is it actually your experience that it's just thought ? (remember your pledge to honesty to yourself)
When you ask yourself this question, notice bodily sensations. Report what you feel as you respond to the question.

[Robin.]

"intellectually" & "believe"
Are they words you used from habit or is it actually your experience that it's just thought ?

Intellectually, is the only word I can use for my realisation that there is no "I " (I,) There's that one letter word again. Sincerely believe this to be true. When I ponder on this realisation I do get an anxious feeling in my solar plexus. Again, my new found intelligence tells me that this is my ego struggling to hang onto the false belief that I am my mind and my physical body. Intellectual is referring to what I have come to know. Old paradigm for new. This is not a habitual word, no more than believe is. I have read, watched, and studied so much on the concept of there really being no "I am" that I truly believe this to be the case. When I do reaffirm this new belief, I do get feelings of anxiety, and I don't think I have gone through the so called gate. Its when contemplating this idea that the process is not complete, that I use comparisons to use as a yardstick. That is to say. I feel no different, and I do not appear to be able to claim a change anything like others who have apparently gone through this subtle change. I read over and over. You will "see" the difference in perception, that is almost impossible to put into words, but it is knowable, and you will never be able to reverse your way of seeing the illusion.

Nothing has changed in me, except my change of belief.

[vinceschubert]

Robin, i do understand as it was similar here.
Agreed that you haven't passed through the gate - yet, but it will happen if you stay with the process.
There is a lifetime of brain conditioning that is attempting to cling to the familiar. This is normal.

When I ponder on this realisation I do get an anxious feeling in my solar plexus.

This is an expression of the closeness to the change.
When you say "realisation" (make real) and "feeling" you are on the right track.

Until tomorrow (i am going to bed now & golfing in the morning - back in about 15 hrs) watch your tendency (or lack of it) to think in judgemental terms about yourself and this process.
Also, take a walk in nature if possible and notice how you notice how it just does it's thing.

Everything is as it should be...
good feeling to you.

[Robin.]

Thank you Vince. Good night to you. Enjoy your golf tomorrow. I'll take that walk, Its a daily routine I do, and enjoy.

[vinceschubert]

...and notice how you notice.

So Robin, what did you notice ?

[Robin.]

Hi Vince,

So Robin, what did you notice ?

I can see that all of nature, trees, birds, grass. Everything is simply "Being" regardless of anything happening around them. I suppose I've always felt this in nature. For as long as I can remember I have always wished that I didn't have a brain with which to think, and analyse with. I suppose this is general in all none sentient beings, with the human animal always examining everything for faults, safety, and self preservation. I'm personally never happier than when my mind is empty, which is a rarity.

[vinceschubert]

Robin, take another zen stick slap.
You were asked what you noticed about your noticing, not the content of what you noticed.
What was the experience of noticing like.
Don't remember now, as it will be too contaminated by mind.
Just pick something, anything and do it now. Notice the process of noticing.
Can you SEE an I that does noticing?

[Robin.]

Point taken Vince. Thank you.
When I notice anything. I immediately give it a label. If I am in that state of absent mindedness its not so.
There is no "I " doing the noticing unless it is deliberate as you just asked me. Its then that what I have called "I " for years, which is what I now know to be a body mind with all its many labels that it attaches due to conditioning.

[vinceschubert]

I immediately give it a label

Great. Notice now... Is there a you that gives it a label or is it just thoughts giving it a label ?

[Robin.]

Is there a you that gives it a label or is it just thoughts giving it a label ?

There is no I giving anything a label. Its all thoughts.

[vinceschubert]

There is no I giving anything a label. Its all thoughts.

Excellent. Now describe your experience of this.

[Robin.]

Excellent. Now describe your experience of this.

This is a weird one. I am aware that there is the body mind taking notice and attaching labels to every thing, object, unless it is an un known object. Having a very enquiring mind I always have the need to identify everything I see, especially in nature. But since I set out on this track of enquiry into non duality, I know there is another awareness that seems to be present. I cannot find an Origin from where this awareness is. And I can't find what prompts the body mind to take notice either. Everything seems to happen at the speed of light, or faster. Most of my noticing is involuntary like breathing. That is unless I set out to take notice consciously. I hope this makes sense. I say this because I am constantly watching what my mind is up to these days, unless I am distracted, in which case everything just ticks along without any input from me anyway.

[vinceschubert]

I am aware that there is the body mind taking notice and attaching labels

No you ? just body/mind ?

Everything seems to happen

i call this "life-ing"

So, is it possible that thoughts just arise, things just happen, without a YOU to make the world go around ?