The Gate

Hi Metta

Gosh this is all so interesting - I'm finding it hard to grapple with as though being asked to look just beyond my peripheral vision at what is there but just out of view - but at the same time I'm really curious so I'm enjoying it.

The film seems to allude to our subconsciousness - the oneness I guess (?) being there functioning and even making decisions but out of view of our consciousness so that our consciousness has the illusion that it's in charge and responsible. That sits okay. It sounds like my 'I' ness is a like the child in the novel "The Room" who is born and lives in a tiny windowless room and finds it impossible to grasp that a world exists beyond those walls because he hasn't seen it yet.

"A baby having no self until 18 to 22 months of age would indicate what?" That we don't need one in order to function and interact I guess.

"Could it be it happens as it happens, life living itself" the film suggests that's the case. So how do our choices and actions fit in? If we are making karma with our volitons where are they coming from?

With love Ellie May

Hi Ellie May,

[quote"A baby having no self until 18 to 22 months of age would indicate what?" That we don't need one in order to function and interact I guess.][/quote]

Could it be that identity is a verb and also a fabrication of the mind, a conceptual overlay on experience?

"Could it be it happens as it happens, life living itself" the film suggests that's the case. So how do our choices and actions fit in? If we are making karma with our volitons where are they coming from?

That is assuming there is karma. But would cause and effect be good words? An action causing ripples in energy, like a stone thrown in water causing ripples that spread outward thereby causing something else? Could karma be another word for life living itself and cause and effect causing ripples or events to happen?

What if there was no identity for anyone, it just appeared that way and events just keep happening and there is awareness of them. does awareness have an end or edge to it?

Love, metta

I think I can grasp identity as a "fabrication of the mind, a conceptual overlay on experience" but I'm not sure I follow "identity as a verb". Does that mean our mind identity-izing experience in order to try and and fix it and own it somehow?

As for the rest of what you said I can see how that makes sense though I don't know if awareness has an edge to it - probably not but I fear that may be my mind speaking rather than experience - hmmmmm, actually now I really think about it I don't think I have experienced an edge to it, perhaps I just assumed there was one within which I was contained but I have no sense of an edge but more of a comfortable vastness ...

Love Ellie May

Hi Ellie May,

I think I can grasp identity as a "fabrication of the mind, a conceptual overlay on experience" but I'm not sure I follow "identity as a verb". Does that mean our mind identity-izing experience in order to try and and fix it and own it somehow?

Yes, exactly. The mind confuses a process of thoughts and Direct Experience with a self and ownership. How can an experience be owned? or a thought ? We say, * MY* self.

As for the rest of what you said I can see how that makes sense though I don't know if awareness has an edge to it -

When aware of something, does it stop at the immediate surroundings or the sky or the stars? Can there be an edge or stopping point with awareness that is perceivable by your eyes? Can a thought think itself?

Love, metta

So how might one refer to direct experience - not by prefixing it with 'my' I guess. I am thinking of on a mundane day to day level. I guess it's okay to say 'my' and 'I' whilst knowing that there's no such thing in a fixed owning sort of way? Just an awareness that appears personal but isn't really ...

I've been mulling it over a little over the last two days and I can't really conceive of an end to awareness, which feels very freeing - it's not something I had thought about before. As for "Can a thought think itself?" I imagine a thought doesn't really have a self but is a result of conditions ...

With love Ellie May

Hi Ellie May,

So is there a self or just the story of Ellie May as a conceptual overlay on thoughts? Love, metta

Just the story ...

With love Ellen

Hi Ellie May,


Do you feel you are ready for the final questions? Are there any areas that are confusing ? love, Metta

Hello Metta

I feel ready though whether I'm able remains to be seen ... I'm not feeling confused at the moment.

With love Ellie May

Hi Ellie May,
Final questions....


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?




Just do the best you can, there is no pass or fail. Thank you, Love, Metta

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There doesn't seem to be, it just appears that way – an illusion, a conceptual overlay.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

It's as though there is a foot, my foot I used to to think, but it's just a foot, a collection of gross matter that has coalesced in this moment as a result of conditions. As it touches the ground there is the sensation of grass between the toes and perhaps that sensation leads to a feeling of pleasure but I guess it's not my foot's pleasure it's just pleasure. I don't remember when the illusion of separate self began – pretty young I should think – at some point I accumulated a sense that I could/should control my environment. Sometimes that gave me an illusion of power at others a sense of shame at my failure and inadequacy to make things the way I wanted or imagined they should be.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

I have had an inkling for three or four years that there was a way in which I could surrender myself that would allow for a more helpful way of being – I glimpsed it briefly but couldn't quite make it out. I wouldn't necessarily say I have it at the centre of my vision now but in the last few days, since writing to you, I have had a tremendous sense of a weight lifting, a door opening so that I am starting to see what I knew was there. It's as though the door was being nudged open and closed by the wind but now someone has got hold of the handle and is slowly pulling it open.

It feels as though my perspective has altered, like a camera zooming out from the detail. In my daily life I continue to function much as I did but with an altered sense of emphasis. It's not that decisions made or actions taken don't matter it's more that they are just decisions and actions with consequences not part of a master plan to shore up or improve or educate or illuminate Ellie May.

I have also found that I feel more connected to and less responsible for the environment. As though this mind can initiate an action by this body but it's just a mind and just a body – something about making a choice in the moment based on the present conditions whilst being unattached to the outcome – so not without thought or concern but without the illusion of a score sheet with my name or anyone else’s on.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

I think the film you sent of the brain doctor gave me some sort of handle – I had struggled to grasp how the illusion of self sat in front of our oneness. I think I recognized what she was saying rather than just understanding it – as though she was articulating something that was there – known - but difficult to pull to the forefront of this mind – to the part where conscious thoughts and language emerge.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

I don't it just feels like I do – this morning as I meditated a thought arose that I might switch on my computer and see what you had written. From that thought followed an action and another thought and another action but at any point, had the conditions been different, had the phone rung for example, this body might have stopped what it was doing and a thought might have arisen to go and pick up the phone. I guess there appears to be choice but really it's just conditions leading to thoughts which might appear as personal preferences or habits or any other of the things that help create the illusion of fixed identity. That the thoughts and the conditions might perpetuate a pattern in an unwholesome cycle I can see but I guess it's an illusion that these patterns are more that a transitory coalescence of thoughts and actions.

6) Anything to add?

Not at the moment ….

With love Ellie May

Hi Ellie May,

Let's break this down and go over it.
Number one. You don't sound sure if there is a self or not, perhaps there are still some doubts.
Two.... Is your body or your thoughts a self? Do you have a separate stable or existent identity? Make a list of things that are considered your qualities and what was given to you by others as well. Shoulds, shouldn't's. Things that you identify as being a self. We will examine that.

I have had an inkling for three or four years that there was a way in which I could surrender myself that would allow for a more helpful way of being – I glimpsed it briefly but couldn't quite make it out.

Who would be surrendering? is there anyone to surrender? What was trying to be made out?

I had struggled to grasp how the illusion of self sat in front of our oneness.

Is there an " our oneness" or Just an awareness without an edge to it? When looking at the environment surrounding the body, you can see physically the separation between the two. Can you see an ending to the consciousness of the surroundings or an edge between the body and other things?


The body acts on auto-pilot doesn't it, from conditioning and memory, something happens and then the reaction that has worked in the past is pulled up?

Love, Metta

Hi Metta

Thanks for your detailed reply – I'll try and respond a point at a time.

“Number one. You don't sound sure if there is a self or not, perhaps there are still some doubts.”

No doubts just a tendency to say things provisionally … e.g. 'it seems' or 'it appears' rather than 'there isn't' or 'there is'. What I mean is it appears clear to me that there is not a self - there was the illusion of one – a mirage – but that has dissolved during the last fortnight.

“Two.... Is your body or your thoughts a self? Do you have a separate stable or existent identity? Make a list of things that are considered your qualities and what was given to you by others as well. Shoulds, shouldn't's. Things that you identify as being a self. We will examine that.”

Well no this body and this thought are not my own and there is no separate stable or existent Ellie May. I am happy to make a list of things that were considered Ellie May's qualities etc and the shoulds and shouln'ts but these things no longer feel relevent – I can't feel any shoulds or shouldn'ts so it would be retrospective … have I misunderstood? I'm happy to answer whatever you ask but I don't think I've quite grasped what you're asking here.
“Who would be surrendering? is there anyone to surrender? What was trying to be made out?”

Well there isn't anyone to surrender but there is a thought now that there is a memory of a thought that Ellie May might surrender the illusion of control. The thought now is that there was a thought before that by letting go of the illusion of control it something known but somehow veiled would be seen.

I'm afraid I'm about to serve up supper! I'm sorry I didn't allow enough time to reply to you but I will carry on in the morning so that it's there for you on Monday.

Thank you again for all your time and effort. Wishing you a peaceful Sunday.

With love Ellie May

Hi Metta

Sorry for the break …

“Is there an " our oneness" or Just an awareness without an edge to it? When looking at the environment surrounding the body, you can see physically the separation between the two. Can you see an ending to the consciousness of the surroundings or an edge between the body and other things? “

I guess there is just an awareness without an edge, as for the body appearing to have edges I guess as an acupuncturist I have grown accustomed to understanding that apparent difference as a temporary arrangement of energy – something along the lines of infinite space without edges in which energy ebbs and flows and coalesces and dissolves as conditions alter. The same with consciousness of self I suppose – a sort of functional illusion that arises and disappears …

“The body acts on auto-pilot doesn't it, from conditioning and memory, something happens and then the reaction that has worked in the past is pulled up?”

Yes, I suppose so … trying to find the words to articulate clearly feels like a challenge but I guess I am now seeing conditioning and memory as chains or perhaps threads of cause and effect … to say that this body is real or unreal feels irrelevant – it appears, is all I can think of to say – there is a perceiving of this form – this apparent conglomeration of gross matter which for the purpose of communication could be referred to as my body, but it's not mine because there is no mine so it's just a phenomena ...

I'm not sure what I'm trying to say … so I'll stop.

With love Ellie May