Ready to let go. Requesting a guide.

[Gomi]

Dearest Benny,

The beginning and the end of the post are crying to be heard. What is this crying out? Could it be 'feelings' are arising? Wonderful. Nothing to hide from or push away. Glad they show themselves. What IS houses all, because it is all!

Feeling bewildered' at the beginning and feeling like 'this is an awesome process' at the end.

Let's look at this very simply.

Write down feelings as they come up during the day. Make 3 columns. One column write 'my feelings', next column just 'the feeling'. ie I feel bewildered..., bewilderment is appearing. Make the list until you have enough to go into inquiry about. The third column write what you notice about the difference in experiencing vs. as thought comes in with 'it is my feeling'. What happens?

Notice: When you stay with your immediate, direct experience, do you perceive only sights, sounds, smells, taste, sensations, thoughts, and emotions? Did you experience that they start belonging to you only when a “my” or “mine” arise. Is a feeling a just a thought believed? Is there just an emotional overlay over the thought? As you write down feelings that arise, check this out.

I couldn’t see that there was any control over thoughts whatsoever

Exactly!!! Thoughts cannot be controlled! Nice observation. Could frustration come from believing you needed to find an answer to where the thoughts came from? :-) Is there an 'I" that is present to even control anything? Does life-ing just arise on its own?

The more I try to look with direct experience, the harder the mind tries to figure out how. The mind is trying to have direct experience, that’s the baffling bit.

Direct Experience is when one uses the 5 senses. There is RECEPTIVITY in SEEing what appears. TRYING to figure things out clogs up the damn. Simply go back to using the 5 senses. Frustration, confusion, etc arise? Are they coming from past experiences? Projections of future experiences? Can they have strength if you simply return to seeing what is appearing in the moment as: tasting what is, smelling what is, hearing sounds?

I certainly see that thoughts that create the ‘I’ are appearing all of the time. It's what seems to keep ‘me’ here in the world.

OOOOO KKKKKK.... Want to test this statement? Imagine every part of your body disappearing. Start with your arms, your legs, etc. Is there a you inside of any part of your body? When the parts of you are removed, what is still, and ALWAYS there? Close your eyes. Can you find a presence that is always here- the being, amness, aliveness? Can you notice the labelling process,? How thoughts come up after experience and the feeling of self can be seen as impersonal feeling + labelling 'me', 'mine'? I breathe or breathing happens.

It’s what seems to keep ‘me’ here in the world.

Benny, that too is a thought! One huge storyline!. My-oh-my, the mind seems to have it all figured out, even tho it claims to be confused! Nothing needs to be done with this story BUT recognize it for what is is. It is an old friend. Do you still want to set the table and have nice dinner conversations with him (Mr. Con-dish-yawning) about how life is? Are you fed up yet? haha. This one still has these 'con' friends come over for dinner too. Only, they don't stay too long. The chairs they sit in aren't so comfortable any longer. :-)
Want to play? How bout opening the doors and seeing what shows up? Open windows, feel the fresh air upon your check and the breath of life giving rise to new forms!! The living moment!!! STAYING WITH DIRECT EXPERIENCE opens the doors!!! (After you continue with DE we will see if your inquiry of thoughts is living in the present moment. If it is, it will be addressed later. For now, let's put that inquiry aside.) Focus on the experiences of the 5 senses. Can you notice an aliveness when it is presenced?

There is an out of town family function this weekend, so i will not be posting till Monday. Please stay with your commitment to post. You said you wanted to redo the previous exercise. Great idea. I will read your posts but just not reply. There are 2 youtube videos you could check out. One by Richard Spira called Emptiness Dancing. It is a 6 minute tape.http://youtu.be/uM8mc0CLm5g . The other is about an hour. BBC The Secret You http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E.

Love,
Gomi

[Tao]

There is an out of town family function this weekend, so i will not be posting till Monday. Please stay with your commitment to post.

Thank you Gomi, that will give me a chance to really look. I'll continue to post.

Peace and love
Benny

[Gomi]

:-)

[Tao]

I can see that there is mind content, the story. This seems to be playing all of the time, it is difficult to watch it without getting lost in it, but it is possible. There is also an emotional feeling tone that flavours the mind content. The two, emotional feeling tone, and mind content, seem to be connected and feed off each other. Both just are as they are. They are there of their own arising. There is a belief that emotions can be changed if thoughts can be changed. In other words, if I think more positively, I will experience an improvement in my emotional well being. I suppose that too is just mind content.

I have noted today that mental confusion, fear and hatred has arisen. Also a desire to return to comfort zones/safety has arisen too. Identification with thoughts is being deeply challenged and it feels like a step into unknown territory. It is SO unknown that it is baffling. I guess confusion is arising because I can't find a 'me' anywhere. I can't find a 'me' that can control anything, yet I can't figure out who 'I' am. I thought thoughts were who 'I' am, or more accurately, thoughts thought thoughts was who I am. Thoughts are creating the 'I' all the time.

Even if fear, or confusion, or whatever is arising, it still feels like it is 'my' fear or confusion. When I look, I see that it is a thought afterwards that makes it mine.

[Tao]

None the less, there seems to be an automatic assumption that it is mine.

[Tao]

The mind seems to go round and around in circles. It is addicted to sensory pleasures and habits and certain behaviours, so it repeats them over and over but it is getting nowhere in doing this. As a result life appears to go round in unfulfilling circles with no lasting satisfaction found.

I didn't post yesterday evening as I was at a party. I noticed on my drive home that I went through a speed camera at nearly 40mph and the speed limit was 30. It's hard to explain, but I had seen the speed camera in the distance, I had noticed that I was going too fast and still I forgot to slow down. There was no 'me' that seemed to have any control over the situation. My mind was filled with all kinds of thoughts and the thought to slow down seemed not to be there at the right time. I regret breaking the speed limit, and even more so if the camera got me, but it seemed almost that it just happened that way. I felt the urge to beat myself up over the situation, but I could find a 'me' to blame, I couldn't find a 'me' that actually had any control over the situation, which all seemed rather automatic.

[Gomi]

Keep looking, party animal! Can still do this as life appears....cutie. Mind is going nowhere with a camera watching. Great analogy!!!
xoxo.
:-)

[Gomi]

Hi Benny!

I can see that there is mind content, the story. This seems to be playing all of the time, it is difficult to watch it without getting lost in it, but it is possible. There is also an emotional feeling tone that flavours the mind content. The two, emotional feeling tone, and mind content, seem to be connected and feed off each other. Both just are as they are. They are there of their own arising.

Yes, wonderful! It does arise on its own. The watching lessens the identification. For how many years has it lived identifying with story? Thoughts, emotions are real, just not personal.The watching seems like a 'watcher and a watchee'. All is one. No separation. Life's manifestations occuring spontaneously.

There is a belief that emotions can be changed if thoughts can be changed. In other words, if I think more positively, I will experience an improvement in my emotional well being. I suppose that too is just mind content.

What can be improved upon? What can control what? :-) Doesn't it get draining TRYing hard to think positive? Nice noticing that it is just mind content too! (And the mind is...?)

I have noted today that mental confusion, fear and hatred has arisen. Also a desire to return to comfort zones/safety has arisen too.

All emotions coming up, showing itself for what it is. ...and beautiful how the noticing is in place AS it appears. Nothing to change. Nothing to control.

I guess confusion is arising because I can't find a 'me' anywhere. I can't find a 'me' that can control anything, yet I can't figure out who 'I' am. I thought thoughts were who 'I' am, or more accurately, thoughts thought thoughts was who I am. Thoughts are creating the 'I' all the time.

FANTASTIC!!!!! REAL BIG SMILE HERE!!! Happy feet are up and dancing!
Thoughts 'appear' to create the 'I' yet awareness of the process is in place. The only comment is confusion comes only when mind appears. As DE arises everything is lived in the moment. Confusion comes when out of the moment. This is already known by 'you', 'i'm' just re-presencing it.

Even if fear, or confusion, or whatever is arising, it still feels like it is 'my' fear or confusion. When I look, I see that it is a thought afterwards that makes it mine.

Yes! Thoughts are real but not personal. :-)

The mind seems to go round and around in circles. It is addicted to sensory pleasures and habits and certain behaviours, so it repeats them over and over but it is getting nowhere in doing this. As a result life appears to go round in unfulfilling circles with no lasting satisfaction found.

Nice noticing. Can mental and emotional chatter ever be fulfilling? Actually, what can be fulfilling? That statement implies that there is something that can be filled and unfulfilled. Upon taking this inside, when SEEing is occurring and life-ing is life-ing, what is missing? What is able to receive satisfaction? What does DE open up in this inquiry?

I noticed on my drive home that I went through a speed camera at nearly 40mph and the speed limit was 30. It's hard to explain, but I had seen the speed camera in the distance, I had noticed that I was going too fast and still I forgot to slow down. There was no 'me' that seemed to have any control over the situation. My mind was filled with all kinds of thoughts and the thought to slow down seemed not to be there at the right time. I regret breaking the speed limit, and even more so if the camera got me, but it seemed almost that it just happened that way. I felt the urge to beat myself up over the situation, but I could find a 'me' to blame, I couldn't find a 'me' that actually had any control over the situation, which all seemed rather automatic.

Sometimes it is easy to use 'spiritual' concepts to 'our' worldly advantage. The above statement could actually come out of DE or a way of allowing manipulation to make something acceptable. It actually doesn't matter how it happened in this incident. Just something to be aware of. Real Direct Experience or going through life using concepts to act out what the mind wants to do? Ever hear of cases where people ended up in jail saying: 'God spoke to me and told me I should do it.' :-)

Did you watch the videos?

Love,
Gomi

[Tao]

Hi Gomi, great to have you back :)

Thoughts 'appear' to create the 'I' yet awareness of the process is in place. The only comment is confusion comes only when mind appears. As DE arises everything is lived in the moment. Confusion comes when out of the moment. This is already known by 'you', 'i'm' just re-presencing it.

I guess what is most confusing, is where does DE come from? If there is no 'me' that can control anything, then that implies that, even the meditation that I do, or exercises in 'looking', watching the mind etc, are just all part of the story. In other words, there is nothing 'I' can do to wake up, it is a process that is just happening, and there is an assumption that there is an 'I' that can do something, like sit down to meditate. It implies that all choice is an illusion, (as did the 'secret you' video)

I understand that confusion arises where there is mind activity, but surely contemplation plays a part in wisdom and insight, does it not?

Write down feelings as they come up during the day. Make 3 columns. One column write 'my feelings', next column just 'the feeling'. ie I feel bewildered..., bewilderment is appearing. Make the list until you have enough to go into inquiry about. The third column write what you notice about the difference in experiencing vs. as thought comes in with 'it is my feeling'. What happens?

Notice: When you stay with your immediate, direct experience, do you perceive only sights, sounds, smells, taste, sensations, thoughts, and emotions? Did you experience that they start belonging to you only when a “my” or “mine” arise. Is a feeling a just a thought believed? Is there just an emotional overlay over the thought? As you write down feelings that arise, check this out.

This was an interesting experiment. The feeling does become mine when the thought that it belongs to me is believed. A great weight is lifted when the feeling is just arising and there is no 'I' to attach it to. It is such a habit to assume it is personal which makes it feel almost automatically my feeling.

Exactly!!! Thoughts cannot be controlled! Nice observation. Could frustration come from believing you needed to find an answer to where the thoughts came from? :-) Is there an 'I" that is present to even control anything? Does life-ing just arise on its own?

Again this implies that all choice is an illusion? I guess this is hard to accept, but I cannot find who makes decisions. Also, the 'I' that I feel I am, does not appear to have any choice about thoughts making decisions. So how is it ‘I’ choose to look at my experience?

There are 2 youtube videos you could check out. One by Richard Spira called Emptiness Dancing. It is a 6 minute tape.http://youtu.be/uM8mc0CLm5g . The other is about an hour. BBC The Secret You http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Biv_8xjj8E.

I have watched both the videos and they are amazing! Consciousness it seems is very illusive. At the end of 'the secret you' Marcus discovers that his brain has already made the decision before 'he' was aware of his decision. Again, the choice being the illusion. Could it be another thought that makes us feel like we had a choice and made a decision?

Peace and love
Benny

[Gomi]

Thanks, good to be back and in communication!

I guess what is most confusing, is where does DE come from? If there is no 'me' that can control anything, then that implies that, even the meditation that I do, or exercises in 'looking', watching the mind etc, are just all part of the story. In other words, there is nothing 'I' can do to wake up, it is a process that is just happening, and there is an assumption that there is an 'I' that can do something, like sit down to meditate. It implies that all choice is an illusion, (as did the 'secret you' video)

Confusion is a very good sign because what happens is that your findings on reality are contradicting what has been taught by everyone, EVERYWHERE, *all the time*. Labels have lead to the recurring "I" thought being attached to all action.We learn it at an early age. Life is living itself spontaneously, is it not?
Any exercise implies a beginning and an end..including meditation sittings.Through meditation and even LOOKing exercises, awareness appears to be occurring in a concentrated form for a certain time. AND having said that, is there any time other than the present moment? Does life-ing only go on when the sense of self is focused and not at other times? Might not it all be a 'mind bypass' surgery. Does choice as an illusion 'blow your mind'? Busted? Without seeking an answer to "Where does DE come from", possibly just experience DE as it lives itself! (Even saying just experience DE implies a separation. Words can be tricky here.) Look not at the content but the presence that is 'present'. What needs to wake up? What is there that hasn't been forever present?! With an illusory sense of self, or without! :-)

A great weight is lifted when the feeling is just arising and there is no 'I' to attach it to. It is such a habit to assume it is personal which makes it feel almost automatically my feeling.

Yup!

It is such a habit to assume it is personal which makes it feel almost automatically my feeling.

Yup!

Again this implies that all choice is an illusion? I guess this is hard to accept, but I cannot find who makes decisions. Also, the 'I' that I feel I am, does not appear to have any choice about thoughts making decisions. So how is it ‘I’ choose to look at my experience?

Great question! (Didn't expect an answer from anything outside of your experience, huh?)
(soft smile)
Do 'you' choose to do anything? Watch it during the day. What happens?

Could it be another thought that makes us feel like we had a choice and made a decision?

Laughing is occurring over here. What does experience say? (not logic or past conditioning)

Could you please answer:

Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Love,
Gomi

[Tao]

Hi Gomi :)

Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

It is a constant stream of thoughts, however subtle, that keeps the illusion of self going, and it is identification with these thoughts, believing these thoughts, that makes ‘me’ believe I am ‘me’.

And these thoughts can be subtle. When I listen to sounds around me, I notice my mind assuming where/what the sound is coming from. If I hear a bird in a tree for example, there is a very subtle, outwardly projecting thought that places what it is and where it is coming from, in relation to ‘me’. ‘Me’ being the centre point. Maybe a thought appears like a flash of an image of a bird sitting on a branch just above my head in my mind.

There has already been a realization that thoughts arise of their own arising. It is unknown where they come from, but there is no I that brings these thoughts into being. Thoughts can control other thoughts, but even the initial thought arose by itself. The self is created by thoughts, yet there is no self that has any control over thoughts. Therefore there is no ‘I’, except in thoughts.

A thought is an ‘imagining’. Therefore, the ‘I’ in thought is also imagined. Self is imagined. There is no ‘I’ that exists outside of thoughts. There has never been a self that existed outside of thoughts.

Thoughts appear to have an electro-magnetic ‘pull’ to them, making them believable, making awareness fall into the illusion, pulling away from direct experience into dualism. Thoughts are by their very nature dualistic. Dualism creates the 3 dimensional world and thoughts place an ‘I’ as the central focus point. Thoughts are fast paced and constant most of the time, moving so quickly the electro-magnetic pull is strong.

There is no ‘I’ that makes a decision. Thoughts make decisions but thoughts arise on their own so there is no ‘I’ making the decisions. Perception of time passing too is created by thought. The whole story is imagined, and believed to be real, whatever real is.

I cannot find a ‘me’ that exists or ever existed, except within thoughts that imagine a ‘me’. There is still a strong identification with thoughts most of the time, although disidentification is happening more and more.

Benny

[Gomi]

Benny,

This one has a story that you are getting close to being at the gate and not entering because the ole standby, logical mind is analyzing.

REALLY LOOK-NOT WITH THE MIND BUT WITH DIRECT EXPERIENCE!!!!!
LOOK! LOOK! LOOK! WITH DIRECT EXPERIENCE!!!

identification with these thoughts, believing these thoughts, that makes ‘me’ believe I am ‘me’.

Where is this statement coming from Direct Experience or mind? Jump in the water and swim! Direct Experience is the living water! Everything is conceptual except direct experience. When i ask if you can make a true statement solely based on direct experience, i am trying to get you to question the reliability and credibility of the content of thoughts.
If direct experience is the only real thing, what does that tell you about the contents of thoughts? Observe thoughts. Just close your eyes for a moment and notice.

There is no ‘I’, except in thoughts

Yes. And are thoughts 'personally' REAL? Is the "I" REAL? Do they deconstruct in the light of DE?

I cannot find a ‘me’ that exists or ever existed, except within thoughts that imagine a ‘me’. There is still a strong identification with thoughts most of the time, although disidentification is happening more and more.

Fantastic! DE will speed this up. Also, it is easy to mistake conditioning/habitual thoughts as the critical judge. Conditioning will continue to appear for some time. Most people who have 'gone through the gate' still notice conditioning. It still is over here. It just doesn't last as long after the illusory self is SEEn.

What is a thought? Where do thoughts go when they disappear? If one identifies with a thought and the thought leaves, what are you? What is there? Please take these questions into DE during the day. What appears?

Life isn't really all that complicated, it's all too easy to go down the rabbit hole of thought and get lost. Let me give you a lifeline here, and perhaps it will open things up.

Think of what you had for dinner yesterday. What was it? rice, chips, any meat or vegtables? Recreate that past experience as vividly as you can in your thoughts.

When did that memory of the past event occur? Past, present, or future?

Imagine what you might have tomorrow for breakfast. Some juice, cereal, toast? Again, imagine that experience as vividly as you can in your thoughts.

When did that future imagining occur? Past, present, or future?


Now look very closely at your ongoing experience right now - is there anything at all outside the now, outside the present moment?

Take some time and just look, no theory, no speculation, just look and see, and let me know what you find.

Rupert Spira has a fantastic you tube video called Time and Death. Maybe this will make things clearer http://youtu.be/PNdjzm8dKOc

Love,
Gomi

[Tao]

Hi Gomi,

I need a bit longer with this one.

benny

[Gomi]

OK, thanks for the heads up. Expecting tornados and horrible storms here. i will be shutting the computers down anyway.

Love,
Gomi

[Gomi]

Hi Benny,
You haven't been posting for a couple of days. Wondering what's up? Feel free to private message if you want.
What time zone do you live in?
Love,
Gomi