Hi Nona,
I've got a few days I'll be offline, family matters, but I'll keep doing the exercises and reading the Gateless Gate. I'll have time to reflect and post (which takes quite long because I type SLOWLY) on Wednesday. I'll keep some notes to myself every day though as the momentum seems important.
best
Phil
Ready to go
Re: Ready to go
Dear Phil,
As you deal with the family, notice the Stories you have about them. Notice the difference between what mind tells you and what is actually happening in the moment (man speaking, woman sitting, child running, etc.) The question "Is is true?" is of enormous help when faced with the stories we all believe without questioning.
I await your return.
love
Nona
As you deal with the family, notice the Stories you have about them. Notice the difference between what mind tells you and what is actually happening in the moment (man speaking, woman sitting, child running, etc.) The question "Is is true?" is of enormous help when faced with the stories we all believe without questioning.
I await your return.
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Re: Ready to go
Hi Phil,
How did the family matters go without a "you" to deal with them?
love
Nona
How did the family matters go without a "you" to deal with them?
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
-
philkingston
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 pm
Re: Ready to go
I am sitting in front of my computer and the keys are under my fingers my back hurts slightly and I am aware of my arse on the seat I’m worrying about having had a break from this process and what you will be thinking but am reassured by your message thinking how she didn’t admonish me but simply asked about my family was impressed by that. I have wiped my nose and am continuing to type < I am aware ten minutes will feel like a long tme and that there’s often a nagging voice saying you could be doing something much more worthwhile than whatever it is you’re doing. And I continue to type, this ‘I’ what is it like how can I do this exercise emphasising the ‘I’? An I continue to type this is the sort of exercise I do some mornings to sort out or think through a problem, just writing about it for a page of A4 it nearly always works the hard drive or maybe its the fan in the computer has started to whirr. I rub my eyes anxiety that the pollen cont is high and I’m gong to be bothered by it all day long. Reminds me we had an air test tin work recently because people had been complaining about sick building syndrome. The air was fine but then we can talk ourselves into just about anything. And my fingers keep clicking at the keys. I rub my eyes and rub my hands together. Saw a thriller last night ‘The Fall’ and was wondering this morning about the short term gain of excitement balanced against the long term pollution of one’s sensibility. Is that really the last thing I want to be thinking about at night? And I keep going in this freeform ‘I’ based bit of writing. Rub hands together again. And so what is the ’I’? Doing? I am writing I am writing a screed of what is happening for Nona as part of getting back into the process of examining the reality of ‘I’. The last week and a half have been around my father having an operation. But it hasn’t been the sole reason I haven’t been engaged in this. After the first few days when I had to travel abroad and knew I’d have little time for reflection of exercises there was also the reluctance to get back into the process. Laziness I see in the rest of my life when it comes to heaving myself out of the slough of indolence. I can’t be bothered, there’s something more interesting on TV, I just ant to go to bed. Agh the recognition that I am giving up on life is grim, especially as I notice my partner is more and more engaged with what she is doing. I am rubbing my eyes again, damn this pollen, and am typing
Hand finger on the hard keys the eyes give way beneath the pressure of the fingers the keys are pressed there is an impulse there is a decision somewhere and the leys are pressed there is a sequence to which the keys are pressed and there is a deciding a deliberating going on as the keys and a sense of a watcher looking at the keys and being careful about how they are pressed, a desire now to explain this. There is an awareness that typing is slow and inaccurate so there is the colours and shapes of fingers above black keys the keys are lit by a desk lamp t the left of the viewing, to the left of and the bum shifts on the chair they keys are lit and the keys on the right are darker it is hard t see clearly and there I a watching of the typing to it isn’t as inaccurate as the last piece. Scratch face. Rub stubble on chin. Cars outside rushing by. Sound of the computer humming. Tickle on left leg, is it an n insect? Rub left eye with side of left hand. Straighten the back. And there is typing shoulders are hard. And there is thinking about what is going to happen after this. And the wrists are resting on the laptop. And there is a dull ache in the bowels. The computer makes a skittering sound. Rub right eye with right hand the small sense of damp around the eye is wiped into dryness. Wipe both eyes with fingers of both hands fore fingers. Typing slowly so the words come out right. Touch press rub eyes with left hand. The screen at the top of eye level is blue and white and black the letters appear as the keys are typed. There is someone, there is a watching happening, who is watching what is watching? What is the being careful the being slows about the typing? What is doing that? Shoulders are lowered as they were riding up and tense. Anxiety about time now. There is typing the feel of the keys giving way under the pressure of the fingers. Rubbing the nose with the thumb and forefinger of the left hand. Press the phone beside the laptop to check the time. Scratch neck. Roll shoulders. Rub stubble with left hand scratch head with right. Wetness at the corners of eyes. Sound of cars going by. The sitting bones press onto the chair. Scratch back of neck with right hand. Fingernails are sharp can hear the rasp of them against skin
Just carving out the time to do this again. The above is my first offering. Thanks for your patience.
Hand finger on the hard keys the eyes give way beneath the pressure of the fingers the keys are pressed there is an impulse there is a decision somewhere and the leys are pressed there is a sequence to which the keys are pressed and there is a deciding a deliberating going on as the keys and a sense of a watcher looking at the keys and being careful about how they are pressed, a desire now to explain this. There is an awareness that typing is slow and inaccurate so there is the colours and shapes of fingers above black keys the keys are lit by a desk lamp t the left of the viewing, to the left of and the bum shifts on the chair they keys are lit and the keys on the right are darker it is hard t see clearly and there I a watching of the typing to it isn’t as inaccurate as the last piece. Scratch face. Rub stubble on chin. Cars outside rushing by. Sound of the computer humming. Tickle on left leg, is it an n insect? Rub left eye with side of left hand. Straighten the back. And there is typing shoulders are hard. And there is thinking about what is going to happen after this. And the wrists are resting on the laptop. And there is a dull ache in the bowels. The computer makes a skittering sound. Rub right eye with right hand the small sense of damp around the eye is wiped into dryness. Wipe both eyes with fingers of both hands fore fingers. Typing slowly so the words come out right. Touch press rub eyes with left hand. The screen at the top of eye level is blue and white and black the letters appear as the keys are typed. There is someone, there is a watching happening, who is watching what is watching? What is the being careful the being slows about the typing? What is doing that? Shoulders are lowered as they were riding up and tense. Anxiety about time now. There is typing the feel of the keys giving way under the pressure of the fingers. Rubbing the nose with the thumb and forefinger of the left hand. Press the phone beside the laptop to check the time. Scratch neck. Roll shoulders. Rub stubble with left hand scratch head with right. Wetness at the corners of eyes. Sound of cars going by. The sitting bones press onto the chair. Scratch back of neck with right hand. Fingernails are sharp can hear the rasp of them against skin
Just carving out the time to do this again. The above is my first offering. Thanks for your patience.
Re: Ready to go
Hi Phil,
Nice to see you back again!
My job is to Point, not to Judge. If you are going to see through the illusion of a separate self, you are going to have to do the work, with or without indolence. Because seeing it occurs in Direct Experience, no one can give it to you—it has to be experienced.
In the writing exercise, what was watching the happening? What was being careful and slowing the typing? What was doing that? Think back, or recreate the situation, and check: is there some Thing DO-ing the watching, DO-ing the careful typing, DO-ing that? Or were watching and typing simply happening as Life lives itself through the experience of Phil?
Read what you wrote; do you notice a difference in how you experience the two paragraphs? Do they "feel" different?
During your time with your family, did you notice the difference between what mind told you and what was actually happening in the moment (man speaking, woman sitting, child running, etc.)?
looking forward to your reply,
love
Nona
Nice to see you back again!
My job is to Point, not to Judge. If you are going to see through the illusion of a separate self, you are going to have to do the work, with or without indolence. Because seeing it occurs in Direct Experience, no one can give it to you—it has to be experienced.
In the writing exercise, what was watching the happening? What was being careful and slowing the typing? What was doing that? Think back, or recreate the situation, and check: is there some Thing DO-ing the watching, DO-ing the careful typing, DO-ing that? Or were watching and typing simply happening as Life lives itself through the experience of Phil?
Read what you wrote; do you notice a difference in how you experience the two paragraphs? Do they "feel" different?
During your time with your family, did you notice the difference between what mind told you and what was actually happening in the moment (man speaking, woman sitting, child running, etc.)?
looking forward to your reply,
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
-
philkingston
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 pm
Re: Ready to go
Just up...
There is sitting at the desk but surely I have decide to do this. That deciding was an experience of reviewing options and picking one. Who picked? What picked? Something was chosen, who chose? There were the sensations of moving downstairs, noticing the grey outside, wondering if it will be cold when I go running, there was the option of stretching but it was later than normal so 'I' chose to go straight into writing this. A path of action was taken. This doesn't need a self to explain it but its hard to shake off the conviction something was choosing. But I can't capture a thing that chose. The truth of my memory is that a path was taken.
As I sit here noticing a reflection of m y body in the screen of the laptop where is the 'I'? There is the habitual imagining that something is sitting literally in the middle of the body, suspended like a small pilot in the middle of the sensation of consciousness whose basis is the body, and this is the self, the driver of the van. If there is looking that is only slightly more attentive than usual it is clear this is a construction, a convenience, a habit which doesn't reflect what's actually there, which is nothing, or at least nothing so substantial. What is there is a collection of sensations, changing. Fingers on the ipad keys, pressure in the chest that gets labelled indigestion, bum on seat, intent to type, yawning, sound of car.
That was the warm up to answer your questions, to recreate the experience of yesterday. My concern was reproducing something would take me away from Direct Experience.
Looking back at the writing...
First thing, I am attached to having interesting ideas and don't believe these will come if I attend to Direct Experience. So reading through the first I think this is the ONLY way towards saying anything interesting.
The memories are precious because they imply my life is richer because I have summoned back sensations which would be lost- there are a number of stories emerging as I view this- and I want a prize for being honest.
So there are feelings of possession, acquisition, affirmation that come with the first.
There is frustration reading the second that it isn't 'taking off' that it is anchored in a predictable set of sensations. The feel of that world is raw , unadorned, there is no identity in it. Yes, I am scared of the obliteration of what makes me 'me' in it.
I am working in this with staying honest, resisting the urge to say the thing that's expected.
The first feels rich with detail and colour but it is also complicated , layered, potentially chaotic in all the different stories it could spiral into. But I notice a strong attachment to it as the only way to 'sell' what's individual about me, what's unique and different and worth paying attention to.
The second has no stories, no way to be more than it is. There is no option in it to be original or different and therefore worth noticing. There is a mild panic to the idea of living here.
The more I can chase into these sensations the more I see a fear of dying, of oblivion. But it has to be chased down, stayed with until the raw emotions reveal themselves.
Have to go now.
Best
Phil
There is sitting at the desk but surely I have decide to do this. That deciding was an experience of reviewing options and picking one. Who picked? What picked? Something was chosen, who chose? There were the sensations of moving downstairs, noticing the grey outside, wondering if it will be cold when I go running, there was the option of stretching but it was later than normal so 'I' chose to go straight into writing this. A path of action was taken. This doesn't need a self to explain it but its hard to shake off the conviction something was choosing. But I can't capture a thing that chose. The truth of my memory is that a path was taken.
As I sit here noticing a reflection of m y body in the screen of the laptop where is the 'I'? There is the habitual imagining that something is sitting literally in the middle of the body, suspended like a small pilot in the middle of the sensation of consciousness whose basis is the body, and this is the self, the driver of the van. If there is looking that is only slightly more attentive than usual it is clear this is a construction, a convenience, a habit which doesn't reflect what's actually there, which is nothing, or at least nothing so substantial. What is there is a collection of sensations, changing. Fingers on the ipad keys, pressure in the chest that gets labelled indigestion, bum on seat, intent to type, yawning, sound of car.
That was the warm up to answer your questions, to recreate the experience of yesterday. My concern was reproducing something would take me away from Direct Experience.
Looking back at the writing...
First thing, I am attached to having interesting ideas and don't believe these will come if I attend to Direct Experience. So reading through the first I think this is the ONLY way towards saying anything interesting.
The memories are precious because they imply my life is richer because I have summoned back sensations which would be lost- there are a number of stories emerging as I view this- and I want a prize for being honest.
So there are feelings of possession, acquisition, affirmation that come with the first.
There is frustration reading the second that it isn't 'taking off' that it is anchored in a predictable set of sensations. The feel of that world is raw , unadorned, there is no identity in it. Yes, I am scared of the obliteration of what makes me 'me' in it.
I am working in this with staying honest, resisting the urge to say the thing that's expected.
The first feels rich with detail and colour but it is also complicated , layered, potentially chaotic in all the different stories it could spiral into. But I notice a strong attachment to it as the only way to 'sell' what's individual about me, what's unique and different and worth paying attention to.
The second has no stories, no way to be more than it is. There is no option in it to be original or different and therefore worth noticing. There is a mild panic to the idea of living here.
The more I can chase into these sensations the more I see a fear of dying, of oblivion. But it has to be chased down, stayed with until the raw emotions reveal themselves.
Have to go now.
Best
Phil
Re: Ready to go
WOW, Phil!!
What do you fear will happen if you let yourself SEE that "me, I, self" is a thought that doesn't refer to an entity in reality? What could happen if there is no "me"?
Check it!
Let's get these fears out in the open and ask them to reveal their stories!
love
Nona
Yes indeed. That's it. "Self" is pure thought, pure imagination; a construction, a label, a construct of language that refers not to an entity in reality, but to more thoughts about a Phil.There is the habitual imagining that something is sitting literally in the middle of the body, suspended like a small pilot in the middle of the sensation of consciousness whose basis is the body, and this is the self, the driver of the van. If there is looking that is only slightly more attentive than usual it is clear this is a construction, a convenience, a habit which doesn't reflect what's actually there, which is nothing, or at least nothing so substantial. What is there is a collection of sensations, changing. Fingers on the ipad keys, pressure in the chest that gets labelled indigestion, bum on seat, intent to type, yawning, sound of car.
Exactly. And yet it's a world that functions perfectly, without an "I, me, or self" anywhere!! And it has done for all the years of Phil's life.There is frustration reading the second that it isn't 'taking off' that it is anchored in a predictable set of sensations. The feel of that world is raw, unadorned, there is no identity in it.
Sweetheart, "me" has always been just a label. There has never been an entity "me"; it cannot be obliterated because it does not exist.Yes, I am scared of the obliteration of what makes me 'me' in it.
What do you fear will happen if you let yourself SEE that "me, I, self" is a thought that doesn't refer to an entity in reality? What could happen if there is no "me"?
Good; that's the contract we made!I am working in this with staying honest, resisting the urge to say the thing that's expected.
And this is all Thoughts. Direct experience is not "complicated, layered, potentially chaotic in all the different stories it could spiral into". Direct experience is simple, unambiguous, prior to story. Like the second paragraph.The first feels rich with detail and colour but it is also complicated, layered, potentially chaotic in all the different stories it could spiral into. But I notice a strong attachment to it as the only way to 'sell' what's individual about me, what's unique and different and worth paying attention to.
When you go out into Nature, and see the grass, the trees, the birds, the clouds... is it only the "original or different" that is "worth" noticing? Or does every aspect of Nature have its part to play as Life lives itself? What do you fear would happen if you noticed what is "unoriginal and ordinary"? Would it take anything away from what is original or different? At all?The second has no stories, no way to be more than it is. There is no option in it to be original or different and therefore worth noticing.
Check it!
"I, me, self" is a thought. A label. A construct of language. "You" are not going to die from SEEing this. "You" has never existed as a separate entity in reality! Yet you've manage to live thus far!The more I can chase into these sensations the more I see a fear of dying, of oblivion.
Let's get these fears out in the open and ask them to reveal their stories!
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
-
philkingston
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 pm
Re: Ready to go
What do you fear will happen if you let yourself SEE that "me, I, self" is a thought that doesn't refer to an entity in reality? What could happen if there is no "me"?
- Odd question, when I sit here and look at my responses, as part of me wants to see this or I wouldn't be pursuing this process. But then emotionally there must be resistance because I keep ' not finding the time' and the feeling when I start digging into my answer IS one of fear, trepidation. Fear that some sense of order in the world will fall apart, that the distinctions between you and me will vanish (why this should be bad I don't know but it plainly bugs me), fear of loss of my ability to control the world. You can tell me over and over again that I don't control the world but I'm yet to be convinced deep down.
When you go out into Nature, and see the grass, the trees, the birds, the clouds... is it only the "original or different" that is "worth" noticing? Or does every aspect of Nature have its part to play as Life lives itself? What do you fear would happen if you noticed what is "unoriginal and ordinary"? Would it take anything away from what is original or different? At all?
- I fear I'd become boring and not worth taking seriously, not given the status of being interesting, not escape mediocrity.
This candour may be a bit self-flagellating but I'm trying to get to the root of why there's such resistance to what you're pointing to.
Best
Phil
- Odd question, when I sit here and look at my responses, as part of me wants to see this or I wouldn't be pursuing this process. But then emotionally there must be resistance because I keep ' not finding the time' and the feeling when I start digging into my answer IS one of fear, trepidation. Fear that some sense of order in the world will fall apart, that the distinctions between you and me will vanish (why this should be bad I don't know but it plainly bugs me), fear of loss of my ability to control the world. You can tell me over and over again that I don't control the world but I'm yet to be convinced deep down.
When you go out into Nature, and see the grass, the trees, the birds, the clouds... is it only the "original or different" that is "worth" noticing? Or does every aspect of Nature have its part to play as Life lives itself? What do you fear would happen if you noticed what is "unoriginal and ordinary"? Would it take anything away from what is original or different? At all?
- I fear I'd become boring and not worth taking seriously, not given the status of being interesting, not escape mediocrity.
This candour may be a bit self-flagellating but I'm trying to get to the root of why there's such resistance to what you're pointing to.
Best
Phil
Re: Ready to go
Hi Phil,
I thank you for your candour!! Honesty makes it easier to see the sticking points!
Let's look at these.
1. "some sense of order in the world will fall apart". Is some sense of order in the world a Real order? Or is it just a thought about how the world is ordered? Do you have a physical sensation that actually literally holds this world together? Which sense does it belong to? How does it operate when you are asleep?
The world has kept on going without a separate entity "me" for more years than either of us has been alive. And it will continue to do so. The constructs "me, I, self" are linguistic constructs only; they do not exist in our physical experience. They are words, labels for our thoughts about how we imagine we live in the world.
2. "the distinctions between you and me will vanish (why this should be bad I don't know but it plainly bugs me)". What exactly are "the distinctions" between you and me? Are you okay with our having distinct bodies? And different professions? Are you okay with Life living itself through many many bodies, including this one and that one?
What would happen if it turned out that "distinctions" between you and me are just as unfindable as the distinction between your liver and your stomach. Can you feel the difference between your internal organs? Directly? What if the "you" and "me" you imagine are just as much parts of one Life as your liver and stomach are parts of one body?
Is the fear that without the "distinctions" between you and me that you will not be Special? If so, how would that actually be a problem for Life? What would it mean if you were no more original than anyone else?
3. "loss of my ability to control the world". No worries about that one: you already don't control the world. And you don't need me to convince you of that!!
If you can control the world, stop the war in Turkey.
Stop the earthquakes in New Zealand.
Stop climate change.
Feed the starving.
Too big? How about something on a smaller scale.
Win the lottery. Make the traffic jam you're sitting in disappear. Un-burn something on the stove.
We don't actually control anything. Events happen that we are a part of, and then mind adds an "I did it" after the fact. The idea that "you" control anything is a story, an explanation that makes you feel secure. But it's not a fact. Check it!!
Does the presence in this world of the unoriginal and the ordinary decrease in any way the value of what you judge as original and extraordinary?
Notice that "unoriginal", "ordinary", "boring", "interesting", "mediocrity" are simply Labels you attach to an experience after you have judged it as insufficient. It doesn't measure up, so you brand it with a label.
But the experience itself is not ordinary, boring, interesting or mediocre; only your thoughts about the experience are.
The other day I rode through the deer park at Richmond-upon-Thames. To me, seeing the hundreds of fawns along the road was very exciting! To someone who cycles there twice a day or more, this would be an "ordinary" experience.
Labels are just words; they are not Truth. Check it!
love
Nona
I thank you for your candour!! Honesty makes it easier to see the sticking points!
Excellent!!some sense of order in the world will fall apart, that the distinctions between you and me will vanish (why this should be bad I don't know but it plainly bugs me), fear of loss of my ability to control the world.What do you fear will happen if you let yourself SEE that "me, I, self" is a thought that doesn't refer to an entity in reality? What could happen if there is no "me"?
Let's look at these.
1. "some sense of order in the world will fall apart". Is some sense of order in the world a Real order? Or is it just a thought about how the world is ordered? Do you have a physical sensation that actually literally holds this world together? Which sense does it belong to? How does it operate when you are asleep?
The world has kept on going without a separate entity "me" for more years than either of us has been alive. And it will continue to do so. The constructs "me, I, self" are linguistic constructs only; they do not exist in our physical experience. They are words, labels for our thoughts about how we imagine we live in the world.
2. "the distinctions between you and me will vanish (why this should be bad I don't know but it plainly bugs me)". What exactly are "the distinctions" between you and me? Are you okay with our having distinct bodies? And different professions? Are you okay with Life living itself through many many bodies, including this one and that one?
What would happen if it turned out that "distinctions" between you and me are just as unfindable as the distinction between your liver and your stomach. Can you feel the difference between your internal organs? Directly? What if the "you" and "me" you imagine are just as much parts of one Life as your liver and stomach are parts of one body?
Is the fear that without the "distinctions" between you and me that you will not be Special? If so, how would that actually be a problem for Life? What would it mean if you were no more original than anyone else?
3. "loss of my ability to control the world". No worries about that one: you already don't control the world. And you don't need me to convince you of that!!
If you can control the world, stop the war in Turkey.
Stop the earthquakes in New Zealand.
Stop climate change.
Feed the starving.
Too big? How about something on a smaller scale.
Win the lottery. Make the traffic jam you're sitting in disappear. Un-burn something on the stove.
We don't actually control anything. Events happen that we are a part of, and then mind adds an "I did it" after the fact. The idea that "you" control anything is a story, an explanation that makes you feel secure. But it's not a fact. Check it!!
You didn't answer the questions as written, so I invite you to go back and do that. Read the questions and then answer each one with the same honesty you're showing here.- I fear I'd become boring and not worth taking seriously, not given the status of being interesting, not escape mediocrity.When you go out into Nature, and see the grass, the trees, the birds, the clouds... is it only the "original or different" that is "worth" noticing? Or does every aspect of Nature have its part to play as Life lives itself? What do you fear would happen if you noticed what is "unoriginal and ordinary"? Would it take anything away from what is original or different? At all?
Does the presence in this world of the unoriginal and the ordinary decrease in any way the value of what you judge as original and extraordinary?
Notice that "unoriginal", "ordinary", "boring", "interesting", "mediocrity" are simply Labels you attach to an experience after you have judged it as insufficient. It doesn't measure up, so you brand it with a label.
But the experience itself is not ordinary, boring, interesting or mediocre; only your thoughts about the experience are.
The other day I rode through the deer park at Richmond-upon-Thames. To me, seeing the hundreds of fawns along the road was very exciting! To someone who cycles there twice a day or more, this would be an "ordinary" experience.
Labels are just words; they are not Truth. Check it!
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Re: Ready to go
Hi Phil,
I'm wondering if you would like to continue with this?
love
Nona
I'm wondering if you would like to continue with this?
love
Nona
"When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains—however improbable—must be the truth." ~ Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
-
philkingston
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 pm
Looking for an OM guide from Triratna
Hi, I tried this a year ago and wasn't ready. But today I met another friend who has broken through and it's convinced me that this is the journey I need to take. I'm interested in working with Order Members form the Triratna Buddhist Order.
I'll engage with this whole-heartedly and honestly if you have the time to guide me.
Lalitavira
I'll engage with this whole-heartedly and honestly if you have the time to guide me.
Lalitavira
Re: Looking for an OM guide from Triratna
Hi Lalitavira,
I'm happy to be your guide and am a Triratna OM. If you agree we can begin :-)
Vajradakini
I'm happy to be your guide and am a Triratna OM. If you agree we can begin :-)
Vajradakini
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philkingston
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 pm
Re: Looking for an OM guide from Triratna
Okay Vajradakini,
I have limited access to the site due to work and a young family but I will definitely check in once a day. Long exercises will have to be done first thing in the morning and then reported on later.
so, let's begin.
LV
I have limited access to the site due to work and a young family but I will definitely check in once a day. Long exercises will have to be done first thing in the morning and then reported on later.
so, let's begin.
LV
Re: Looking for an OM guide from Triratna
Ok Great.
It sounds like you can post once a day, which is fine and works best. I will do the same. If you need more time at some point to reply just check in to let me know.
If you click on 'subscribe topic' at the bottom of this page you will receive email notifications of replies.
Let's start by looking at expectations. We are going to be investigating experience to see if there is any 'self' or 'person' behind, living or directing it. How do you expect experience to change once it is seen that there is no such self, nor has there ever been?
V x
It sounds like you can post once a day, which is fine and works best. I will do the same. If you need more time at some point to reply just check in to let me know.
If you click on 'subscribe topic' at the bottom of this page you will receive email notifications of replies.
Let's start by looking at expectations. We are going to be investigating experience to see if there is any 'self' or 'person' behind, living or directing it. How do you expect experience to change once it is seen that there is no such self, nor has there ever been?
V x
-
philkingston
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 pm
Re: Looking for an OM guide from Triratna
How do I expect experience to change?
I expect to feel freer of the assumption there is a self to protect and therefore a bit happier.
I expect to realise there is more space in which to choose response because the automatic defense/assertion of this self has been seen to be an illusion.
I expect a felt understanding that experience arises and diminishes which is beyond the intellectual understanding I have ( though I have no idea what this will feel like)
I expect the possibility of more piece of mind from experiencing all the above, certainly less angst, tightness, anxiety
I expect the habits of my mind, or just the mind, to continue and therefore no big change but I expect to see this process as opposed, as now, to being subsumed in these habits
I expect never being able to forget that the self is an assumption
I expect to have to work to deepen this insight
I expect to want to do this work
I expect to see this not as work but as, to quote a friend, an expression of the insight
I don't know what will happen but in the few days since I decided to pursue this I have had an instinct of its worth - as if the experience reached back from the future, or that something deeper in me does know its value and has given me a foretaste. This leads me to expect something that will feel true, clear, beautiful.
That's an honest account from now.
Best
LV
I expect to feel freer of the assumption there is a self to protect and therefore a bit happier.
I expect to realise there is more space in which to choose response because the automatic defense/assertion of this self has been seen to be an illusion.
I expect a felt understanding that experience arises and diminishes which is beyond the intellectual understanding I have ( though I have no idea what this will feel like)
I expect the possibility of more piece of mind from experiencing all the above, certainly less angst, tightness, anxiety
I expect the habits of my mind, or just the mind, to continue and therefore no big change but I expect to see this process as opposed, as now, to being subsumed in these habits
I expect never being able to forget that the self is an assumption
I expect to have to work to deepen this insight
I expect to want to do this work
I expect to see this not as work but as, to quote a friend, an expression of the insight
I don't know what will happen but in the few days since I decided to pursue this I have had an instinct of its worth - as if the experience reached back from the future, or that something deeper in me does know its value and has given me a foretaste. This leads me to expect something that will feel true, clear, beautiful.
That's an honest account from now.
Best
LV
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