Yes sure, I'll answer them.
Thanks :-)
Guide Looking for A Client Who Wants to Work
-
The-Song-Of-Me
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 12:35 pm
- Location: London
Re: Guide Looking for A Client Who Wants to Work
The play of shine and shade on the trees as the supple boughs wag,
The delight alone or in the rush of the streets, or along the fields
and hill-sides,
The feeling of health, the full-noon trill, the song of me rising
from bed and meeting the sun.
W W
The delight alone or in the rush of the streets, or along the fields
and hill-sides,
The feeling of health, the full-noon trill, the song of me rising
from bed and meeting the sun.
W W
Re: Guide Looking for A Client Who Wants to Work
Very good. Here we go!
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?
I'd wish you luck, but feel you're certain in your findings. Let's see whether there is anything else we might help with.
Delma
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?
I'd wish you luck, but feel you're certain in your findings. Let's see whether there is anything else we might help with.
Delma
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".
Delma
tabulrasablog.com
seeingnoself.com
Delma
tabulrasablog.com
seeingnoself.com
-
The-Song-Of-Me
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 12:35 pm
- Location: London
Re: Guide Looking for A Client Who Wants to Work
Here it is!
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no self that exists as a separate entity, neither is there a self controlling living, choice, thoughts, feelings.. Talking of "you", "I", self.. is a way of referring to existence appearing as a body/mind, it simplifies communication and refers to the relative reality of a body/mind existing. In the same way that people will continue to call me Silvia and I will continue to answer to that name. But there is no fixed separate entity called Silvia. Silvia is a name for this apparent ever changing flow, part of existence and existence itself.
The funny thing is that it has never existed! Even though intellectually I thought I understood non-self, I was always trying to get rid of the self! How can something that doesn't exist get rid of itself?! hilarious.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I don't think I fully know how this works, but this is more or less my experience;
The existence of a separate self is a thought. Sensory experience happens; hearing, seeing, tasting... the mind labels all of this, categorises it, puts experiences into words (more or less), learns spatial awareness so we can put food in our mouths and don't run into walls or cars. Thanks to the mind we can say pass me that orange or don't eat that, it's poison. This is extremely useful to survive as a body/mind. The mind is an amazingly effective tool. It's also incredibly fast. So fast that unless we really look, we don't see the labelling, the categorising as it happens, the thought process that the mind is constantly churning out. This in itself is not a problem but at some point a thought arises that all this is happening separately and independently from everything else. Then there is the thought that there is an entity running all this. It seems like I am doing the thinking, the living, the choices. We probably learn this from language and society, but perhaps it is also an inherent part of being human, I don't know. For some reason (genetic, social conditioning..) the mind remembers some things and not others, thinks some emotions or thoughts are more important than others and identifies with them and a picture of reality begins to be created, patterns of thought and emotion that we call personality inform experience which in turn re-enforce these patterns and soon there is the Story of Me. This is Who I Am. But the strange thing is this image is at odds with reality, but instead of just dropping it or seeing through it, we become even more attached to it, no matter how painful or exhausting it is. It's as if whenever this story gets threatened all our survival instincts rush to defending the story as if our very life depended on it. We even think that that feeling of anxiety in the body is the I and we'll say, that's the I feeling threatened, when it's just anxiety.
I know this is a very rough and ready way of putting what happens, but I hope it makes some sense.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels bloody brilliant! But also incredibly obvious and ordinary. A bit embarrassing too. It reminds me of 100 Years of Solitude when Jose Arcadio Buendia recovers his memory after drinking a potion from Melquíades, "His eyes became moist from weeping even before he noticed himself in an absurd living room where objects were labelled and before he was ashamed of the solemn nonsense written on the walls, and even before he recognized the newcomer with a dazzling glow of joy."
Or like somebody who's been living their whole lives crammed inside a tiny cupboard, only to realise one day that there was no cupboard!
Or like a country that just got rid of its dictator.
The main difference is a bit difficult to put into words, saying that if feels like time has stopped sounds too grand, but there is a definite feeling that this is it, here, now, just like this. This.
If feels like the end of searching, but the beginning of a wonderful adventure. Still lots "to do", plenty of habits, conditioning to see through. Irritation still arises when I see that my flatmate hasn't done the dishes and anxiety when I think of having to find a new job. The story comes back for a bit and then goes away again.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
It's a bit difficult to pinpoint. I had already seen through the fact that I'm not doing my thoughts or emotions nor could I possibly be them. BUT there was still an unshakeable believe that there was a me witnessing and to whom things were happening to. Reading Gateless Gatecrashers made me really look into that belief. I'd assumed it would be really difficult, but when Ilona said to someone on the book to imagine they were holding and imaginary melon and then to get rid of it, I think that's when the other shoe dropped. I realised I didn't have to get rid of anything because there was no me! nothing was going to change because there had never been a "me" in the first place! There was nothing to get rid of! Simple! Then going through the dialogues gave me enough momentum and focus to really see it. Or not see it. In many ways it was nothing new, but it had never been recognised with enough clarity before.
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
There is no-one to decide, intend or any of the above. No-one to make anything happen. Intentions arise out of infinite conditions, and depending on present conditions decisions and actions happen. . There is nobody to control and nothing to be controlled. It just is. Who's deciding to tap their fingers impatiently on the desk? Who's feeling impatience? There is presence and there are shifts within the presence. Wanting to answer this questions arises from somewhere, but then wanting to get up and get something to eat arises too, and tension between the two, there's a thought " that I should be concentrating more", there is noticing a pain in the neck and behind it a feeling of unease and another thought "what if the pain becomes permanent. I'm getting old" and the fingers start tap, tap, tapping on the desk. Nobody is doing any of these. Feelings, thoughts, intentions, actions, feelings... they just keep happening one after the other, one giving rise to the other.
6) Anything to add?
Just my many thanks for the conditions that made crossing the gate happen! And hoping one day I can help too.
Silvia x
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there is no self that exists as a separate entity, neither is there a self controlling living, choice, thoughts, feelings.. Talking of "you", "I", self.. is a way of referring to existence appearing as a body/mind, it simplifies communication and refers to the relative reality of a body/mind existing. In the same way that people will continue to call me Silvia and I will continue to answer to that name. But there is no fixed separate entity called Silvia. Silvia is a name for this apparent ever changing flow, part of existence and existence itself.
The funny thing is that it has never existed! Even though intellectually I thought I understood non-self, I was always trying to get rid of the self! How can something that doesn't exist get rid of itself?! hilarious.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
I don't think I fully know how this works, but this is more or less my experience;
The existence of a separate self is a thought. Sensory experience happens; hearing, seeing, tasting... the mind labels all of this, categorises it, puts experiences into words (more or less), learns spatial awareness so we can put food in our mouths and don't run into walls or cars. Thanks to the mind we can say pass me that orange or don't eat that, it's poison. This is extremely useful to survive as a body/mind. The mind is an amazingly effective tool. It's also incredibly fast. So fast that unless we really look, we don't see the labelling, the categorising as it happens, the thought process that the mind is constantly churning out. This in itself is not a problem but at some point a thought arises that all this is happening separately and independently from everything else. Then there is the thought that there is an entity running all this. It seems like I am doing the thinking, the living, the choices. We probably learn this from language and society, but perhaps it is also an inherent part of being human, I don't know. For some reason (genetic, social conditioning..) the mind remembers some things and not others, thinks some emotions or thoughts are more important than others and identifies with them and a picture of reality begins to be created, patterns of thought and emotion that we call personality inform experience which in turn re-enforce these patterns and soon there is the Story of Me. This is Who I Am. But the strange thing is this image is at odds with reality, but instead of just dropping it or seeing through it, we become even more attached to it, no matter how painful or exhausting it is. It's as if whenever this story gets threatened all our survival instincts rush to defending the story as if our very life depended on it. We even think that that feeling of anxiety in the body is the I and we'll say, that's the I feeling threatened, when it's just anxiety.
I know this is a very rough and ready way of putting what happens, but I hope it makes some sense.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels bloody brilliant! But also incredibly obvious and ordinary. A bit embarrassing too. It reminds me of 100 Years of Solitude when Jose Arcadio Buendia recovers his memory after drinking a potion from Melquíades, "His eyes became moist from weeping even before he noticed himself in an absurd living room where objects were labelled and before he was ashamed of the solemn nonsense written on the walls, and even before he recognized the newcomer with a dazzling glow of joy."
Or like somebody who's been living their whole lives crammed inside a tiny cupboard, only to realise one day that there was no cupboard!
Or like a country that just got rid of its dictator.
The main difference is a bit difficult to put into words, saying that if feels like time has stopped sounds too grand, but there is a definite feeling that this is it, here, now, just like this. This.
If feels like the end of searching, but the beginning of a wonderful adventure. Still lots "to do", plenty of habits, conditioning to see through. Irritation still arises when I see that my flatmate hasn't done the dishes and anxiety when I think of having to find a new job. The story comes back for a bit and then goes away again.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
It's a bit difficult to pinpoint. I had already seen through the fact that I'm not doing my thoughts or emotions nor could I possibly be them. BUT there was still an unshakeable believe that there was a me witnessing and to whom things were happening to. Reading Gateless Gatecrashers made me really look into that belief. I'd assumed it would be really difficult, but when Ilona said to someone on the book to imagine they were holding and imaginary melon and then to get rid of it, I think that's when the other shoe dropped. I realised I didn't have to get rid of anything because there was no me! nothing was going to change because there had never been a "me" in the first place! There was nothing to get rid of! Simple! Then going through the dialogues gave me enough momentum and focus to really see it. Or not see it. In many ways it was nothing new, but it had never been recognised with enough clarity before.
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.
There is no-one to decide, intend or any of the above. No-one to make anything happen. Intentions arise out of infinite conditions, and depending on present conditions decisions and actions happen. . There is nobody to control and nothing to be controlled. It just is. Who's deciding to tap their fingers impatiently on the desk? Who's feeling impatience? There is presence and there are shifts within the presence. Wanting to answer this questions arises from somewhere, but then wanting to get up and get something to eat arises too, and tension between the two, there's a thought " that I should be concentrating more", there is noticing a pain in the neck and behind it a feeling of unease and another thought "what if the pain becomes permanent. I'm getting old" and the fingers start tap, tap, tapping on the desk. Nobody is doing any of these. Feelings, thoughts, intentions, actions, feelings... they just keep happening one after the other, one giving rise to the other.
6) Anything to add?
Just my many thanks for the conditions that made crossing the gate happen! And hoping one day I can help too.
Silvia x
The play of shine and shade on the trees as the supple boughs wag,
The delight alone or in the rush of the streets, or along the fields
and hill-sides,
The feeling of health, the full-noon trill, the song of me rising
from bed and meeting the sun.
W W
The delight alone or in the rush of the streets, or along the fields
and hill-sides,
The feeling of health, the full-noon trill, the song of me rising
from bed and meeting the sun.
W W
Re: Guide Looking for A Client Who Wants to Work
Love this. I don't have any questions for you, but do you have any for me? Meanwhile, I will post this thread for others to take a look. Let's see whether they have anything to add...
And thanks so much for your thorough reply. It's so helpful to really get all of this out. In the weeks, months, and years to come, you may find yourself referring back to this thread, and to your description of the 'seeing'.
Thanks again!
Delma
And thanks so much for your thorough reply. It's so helpful to really get all of this out. In the weeks, months, and years to come, you may find yourself referring back to this thread, and to your description of the 'seeing'.
Thanks again!
Delma
There is no "I" doing this inquiry. There is no "I" looking for the "I".
Delma
tabulrasablog.com
seeingnoself.com
Delma
tabulrasablog.com
seeingnoself.com
-
The-Song-Of-Me
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Thu May 09, 2013 12:35 pm
- Location: London
Re: Guide Looking for A Client Who Wants to Work
No, thank you for your time Delma! I'm also enjoying browsing your blog. Lots of great stuff in there.
I'm in awe of what you guys are doing in here. I haven't got words.
I don't seem to have any questions, actually I do. But they don't seem to want to come out. There's a sense of wait and see, so.. we'll see!
Thanks again
Silvia x
I'm in awe of what you guys are doing in here. I haven't got words.
I don't seem to have any questions, actually I do. But they don't seem to want to come out. There's a sense of wait and see, so.. we'll see!
Thanks again
Silvia x
The play of shine and shade on the trees as the supple boughs wag,
The delight alone or in the rush of the streets, or along the fields
and hill-sides,
The feeling of health, the full-noon trill, the song of me rising
from bed and meeting the sun.
W W
The delight alone or in the rush of the streets, or along the fields
and hill-sides,
The feeling of health, the full-noon trill, the song of me rising
from bed and meeting the sun.
W W
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