The Gate

Hi Behzad,
been doing a lot more looking, and can now see more clearly:

Can you ever be pulled in to thoughts? Is it really you that goes in and out of thoughts?
When there is identification with thoughts, is there really anyone that gets identified? Where is that one that gets identifeid? Can you show him/her to me? If you stand in front of the mirror, will you be able to see that one that moves in and out of thoughts when thats happening?
Or
Is I were lost in thoughts just another thought, story happening about you?

Yes, of course, how can ‘I’ get pulled into thoughts when the ‘I’ is just a thought itself. So there isn’t anybody to get identified with thought. What a dingbat, ha, I have already seen that the ‘I’ is a thought only, and that it doesn’t exist in reality, so the thoughts about being pulled into thoughts is just another story about the fictional ‘Me’. Why didn’t I see this before, ha.

Can there just be lostness in thoughts and when that ends then there is just thoughts flowing through and maybe lostness again and then just thoughts flowing through again and so forth, whitout there being an I involved? Is there really an actual I/Me that moves in and out all the time?

Answer as above, yes, there is just lostness in thought happening in the moment, until it changes to thoughts just flowing through again. There isn’t an actual me that moves in and out all the time.

Keep seeing the fact that there is no self, then see the doubts, truly see them. Now look at reality again, direct experience. Wich one is true. that wich is seen in direct experiecne or the doubts?

Only that which is seen in direct experience is the truth, that which is tangible. Thoughts are also experienced in direct experience, some thoughts may be about doubt while others are not. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the content is truth. The thoughts harbouring doubt tend to create distraction/resistance to what is, and maybe arise as a defence mechanism as protection of the Self/I.

"oh I have been lost in thoughts for the lat 20 secounds" <----- This is a after thought happening after the direcct experience of lostness in thoughts. So there has never been anyone in or out of the thoughts, are you with me on this? Can this be seen in direct experience? Check this out and see if its true....

Checked this out and can now see how there is just awareness of having been lost in thought, then the awareness of the afterthought describing this. In both instances there was no I or Me present whatsoever, just awareness.

I

t’s like a camera, zooming in (focus on the thougths) and zooming out (thoughts flowing by). No I there doing it. Just the way life wants to play and move : )
Can all this be seen?

This can clearly be seen now, it was just a case of looking again at direct experience. Yes the camera thing describes it perfectly, nice one!

Thanking you,
Su

Beautiful Su, you are doing great : )

Could you please answer these questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything
happen? Give examples from your experience.
6) Anything to add?

Take youre time to answer these questions. Thanks...

Hi Behzad,

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No, I can clearly see now that there is no separate ‘I’ or ‘Me’, as this is just a fictitious creation from thought.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it
works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self starts from a young age when we are conditioned by parents/society to believe that there is a separate self. One of the strongest factors that help to create separate self is our name/label. From a young age we are taught that this name/label is who we are, we then have to use this name/label all our life, to reference our character. We need it for passports, Schools, Jobs, etc. Our name/label is also used alongside our image which reinforces the sense of a separate self.
Now the separate self is seen as nothing more than a thought based illusion, a fictional character without substance. It doesn’t exist in reality, but only as a thought/image within the mind.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this
dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

Seeing this provides a sense of freedom, but on the whole there isn’t a great deal of difference in the way I feel now from the way I felt before. There was some expectation that there would be awareness of a very noticeable shift of some sort, but the shift, if any, is very subtle.
Over the past few days there were moments of clarity, when I was 110% certain of what was reality, followed by moments of doubt, arising from questioning thoughts which tended to pull me in. It was a bit of a struggle to work through these doubts, which warranted further looking into direct experience. I then saw through how this mechanism created distraction, probably arising from resistance, but nevertheless, there was no self/I present no matter what.

What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It was realising the truth about something that had stopped me in my tracks:
I had seen clearly that the I/Self didn’t exist in any way, shape or form, but there was an expectation that If I was seeing clearly, then I wouldn’t be pulled in by thoughts anymore, and if this was still happening then I am not there yet. I now understand that this isn’t the case, and being pulled in by thoughts would still continue to happen. Then I realised that the important thing here is that there is no ‘I ‘to get pulled into thought, because the ‘I’ is also only a thought.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

I cannot decide, intend, choose, or control events in life as ‘I’ exist only as thought. In my experience a decision is made following an agreement arrived at from both thought and circumstance: Wondering what to wear one day, the weather was looked at, suitable clothing available, then an agreement in thought as to what to wear.
Often I have intended something to happen, when it has turned out quite the opposite: I intended to watch a movie, when I was asked to give somebody a lift to a party, thus quashing my plans entirely. No matter what we intend to do, we are governed by circumstance, whatever happens at the time. There is no ‘I’ that can control events in life.
Driving the car, I was lost in thought, when I suddenly realised I had driven for a short period of time without any input into the mechanics of driving. The body had literally driven the car itself, without the need of an ‘I’ or Self whatsoever.

6) Anything to add?

The only thing that has changed here, is that I know something now for certain, that I didn’t know before: The ‘I’ definitely does not exist.


Many thanks,
Su

Good Su,

I am going to let some other guides go through youre answers to see if they have any questions for you : )
I will let you know as soon as I know anything.

Take care

Hello again,

One of our guides have a question for you : )

In the beginning you said "I hope to feel joy, happiness, freedom, with a release from the suffering caused from the attachment of feeling that there exists a self." Do you still experience that suffering?

Hi Behzad,

In the beginning you said "I hope to feel joy, happiness, freedom, with a release from the suffering caused from the attachment of feeling that there exists a self." Do you still experience that suffering?

It was the drawing in/identification with negative/emotional thoughts that previously caused the suffering. These thoughts still arise, but I can now see these thoughts for what they are, whilst at the same time quickly realise that there is no 'I' there to be affected by them.


Su

Thank you Su,

Our guides really like you so they have another question for you : )

Do you "understand" the illusion intellectually or have you actually experienced it physically?

Do you "understand" the illusion intellectually or have you actually experienced it physically?

I understand the illusion intellectually, and am experiencing the physicality of illusion continuously through awareness. The self arises within the illusion, but as a thought only. There is a slight difference of how I feel now to what I did before this dialogue, but no big wow moment or transformation.


Su

and am experiencing the physicality of illusion continuously through awareness.

Dear Su, could you elaborate this sentence. There is experiencing the physicality through awareness.

Is there anyone that is Awareness? That is aware?
Is there anyone that is seeing life happening, seeing the illusion?

Just want to make sure that all the puzzles is on right place : )

Hi Behzad,

Dear Su, could you elaborate this sentence. There is experiencing the physicality through awareness.

What I meant by this sentence is that there is experiencing through physical senses: seeing,feeling, smelling, hearing, and tasting. The physical body is required in order to have direct experience, through the use of the 5 senses.

Is there anyone that is Awareness? That is aware?
Is there anyone that is seeing life happening, seeing the illusion?

I understand that awareness just is. There have been moments when this has been seen, but only moments. At times there is still sense of some kind of identification with separation here, with a self. Does this need to be looked at further, in direct experience, until there is just a knowing of what is?
I also understand that there isn't anyone that is seeing life happening, there is just seeing. When the senses being utilised are focused upon, there are no thoughts, just sensory experience. other times there is a sense of a person here. Its like a to and fro situation, and nothing is stable as yet.
I hope this answers your questions.

Su

I understand that awareness just is. There have been moments when this has been seen, but only moments. At times there is still sense of some kind of identification with separation here, with a self. Does this need to be looked at further, in direct experience, until there is just a knowing of what is?

This is totally find. The sense of I/Me will come and go as it has done before. But the belief that is belongs to someone is not there any more. So everything is welcomed here but there is a deep knowing that all this is life happening. It doesnt belong to anyone anymore and has never done. And you need a sense of self to function in the world : )

Thank you for answering the questions Su.

Do you have facebook?

We have a facebook group specifically created for those who have newly crossed the gate and if you have questions or doubts, or just want to share your experience of seeing through the illusion of self with others, this is a place to connect and discuss all that comes up for you. Its a nice thing and also very helpful.

Let me know if you are intrested so we can add you there if you want, send me a private message here and we will add you : )

Take care
Behzad

Hi Behzad,
Thankyou for your kind invitation, I am interested in joining the group, and have sent you a private message.


Thanks,
Su