looking for a guide

[pop]

Hmmm. It could be a surface registering of something deeper that already happened.
I'll need to check this further.

[Xain]

The more i look at thoughts the less thoughts appear.

Yes.
The mind cannot operate in the immediate moment. This is a good observation as shows that you are indeed looking at Direct Experience. As soon as thoughts are noticed, you are no-longer doing this, and mind has asserted itself.

The next one is impossible to predict.
After it appears (from nowhere ) it is possible to see a link.

Ok, so where is the 'I', the 'me' that controls thoughts? Is there one? Or is there no controller?
Is there an 'I', a 'me' who has the thoughts? Do the thoughts belong to an 'I' or a 'me?
Do the thoughts appear in an 'I', 'me'? Is there an experiencer of thoughts?
Or are they not experienced 'by' anything?

Xain ♥

[pop]

Ok they arise seemingly randomly but must be based on what went before.
So no controller - that is no I controlling.
Just results of previous events determining. I can see how thoughts aren't me.
But if I direct them to solve a problem it is different.
Then "I" am directing them.
Experiencer - more difficult.
Experienced by the 'being'. By the presence of aliveness. The sense of being.
Ehm... Me. I can use thinking to solve things. Even tho mostly it is just mindless arising. Like body sensations.

[pop]

Actually looking again they're very habitual.
Same thoughts generally. So not totally random.
The experiencer tho is still harder to let go off than the controller.

[Xain]

Ok they arise seemingly randomly but must be based on what went before.

Sure - All thoughts are based on language, coupled with experiences, teaching, training, concepts etc
But that's the content of the thought - Examine the experience of the thought itself when it appears.

But if I direct them to solve a problem it is different.

Ok, think a thought that is specific to solve a problem.
Look and see if you can find an 'I', a 'me' that created it.
Look and see if this thought is owned by, or appears in anything.

You seem to be saying that some thoughts are created by you, and some thoughts are not created by you.
Surely either all thoughts are controlled and have an owner, or all are not controlled and have no owner.

Don't assume anything - Let go of all preconceptions.
If a thought has an owner, and a controller, 'I', 'me' then you should be able to find it - LOOK!
Can you find one?

Experienced by the 'being'. By the presence of aliveness. The sense of being.

Then take a look in your Direct Experience.
Does this 'presence of aliveness' experience things.
Or is there just 'experience', with nothing found that does the experiencing?

Xain ♥

[pop]

So the thoughts just appear relentlessly.
Ignoring the content now.
Trying to see where or in what they appear.
Seem to just appear in and from nowhere.
The experiencer is just experience.

Yet I still identify with all this somewhere along the line of experience.

[Xain]

The experiencer is just experience.

Is there an 'experiencer' of any kind to be found?

Yet I still identify with all this somewhere along the line of experience.

Don't be too concerned about this thought at the moment.
Experience is always here. We would be foolish to deny it.
We just simply need to examine what, if anything, that this is experience is happening 'to'.

Try a simple experiment with sound. I particularly like this one.
In standard conversation we say, 'I' hear, 'I' am hearing.
Let's look and find this 'I', the hearer of sounds.

Just for a moment, listen.
Let hearing happen. Hear the flow of sound available in the immediate experience.
Now really LOOK and examine in your Direct Experience, where is this sound being 'heard'.
Whereabouts is hearing 'happening'?
Is there a hearer to be found in any way, shape or form. Or is there just 'hearing'.

Xain ♥

[pop]

There's just hearing followed by thoughts about sound.
The thoughts create the sense of "l".
I enjoy noticing the coming and passing of sound and sensation when i sit.
And seeing how there is no controller.
Maybe i could see this more deeply tho.

Ok then for the senses and thought. ...
However when it comes to walking, jumping, baking...doing physical things it is hard to accept that it just happens.
Maybe im jumping ahead.

[Xain]

There's just hearing followed by thoughts about sound.
The thoughts create the sense of "l".

Indeed, but you raced ahead here.
Just simply look if there is a hearer. Is there anything doing the hearing?
You said 'There's just hearing' - But is this clear?
Don't bumble through this - Actually LOOK. Be certain.
Is there an 'I', 'me' that hears?

However when it comes to walking, jumping, baking...doing physical things it is hard to accept that it just happens.

I'm not asking you to accept anything. Take a LOOK! :-)
Do any of these activities and look to see what is in control. Is there anything controlling this?
Don't think and analyse - Look - Examine what is here. Can anything be found?

Xain ♥

[pop]

Ok so I'll keep looking.
It's hard to keep the book learnt concepts at bay.

[Xain]

Ok so I'll keep looking.
It's hard to keep the book learnt concepts at bay.

Yes. Examining Direct Experience is one of the most difficult things to do as we are so conditioned to go to mind/thought answers. This is the only key to getting this.
'I'll keep on looking' Sounds a little like you need time to answer.
You don't. You know the answer immediately. Direct Experience is here right now.

When examining Direct Experience, the mind switches off. It is like a cat at a mouse hole. Intensely looking.
Answer what you feel is right in the immediate moment.

What is doing the hearing? In there an 'experiencer' - LOOK! Is there one? Or is there just 'hearing'?

Xain ♥

[pop]

I feel I'm not looking directly.
That I'm not staying in direct experience long enough.
It's like my thoughts hear the sound.

[Xain]

That I'm not staying in direct experience long enough.

No time is needed. Direct experience is immediate.

Do you need time to feel the clothes on the body?
Do you need time to see light entering the eyes from the computer screen in front of you?

No. It's just there. Immediate. No thought is needed whatsoever.

So listen! Right now!
Is there a hearer of sounds? Where are sounds 'heard'? Or is there just hearing? No 'hearer' to be found.

Xain ♥

[pop]

Right now. Just sounds being heard.
Just hearing.
Ordinary awareness.

I might have been looking for some "breakthrough" or special awareness.
This is hard to maintain when busy.
For example even in stillness when i focus on sound i dont feel the clothes.
So remaining with ordinary awareness of direct experience off the cushion is difficult with so much stimuli.

[Xain]

I might have been looking for some "breakthrough" or special awareness.

You'll need to tell me exactly what this 'I' is that's looking. Is there one?
Is there even an 'I', a 'me' doing any of this investigation? Don't think - LOOK!

I dont feel the clothes

Is there a feeler of clothes? What is this 'I', this 'me' that feels clothes?
Or is there just the feeling of them? The pure experience only.

Xain ♥