For Yellow

[perrym]

Hi Yellow,

Thanks for the update, and apologies that I could not get back to you sooner.

There are a standard set of questions that are very helpful in getting an overview of where things stand - please could you answer each of them in some detail? Give this some space - you might find it more convenient to answer them one or two at a time.

very best wishes,

Perry

_______________________________________________________________________

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

[yellow]

Thanks Perry - will do, will start on them tomorrow and see where I get to...
Have a lovely evening,
All the best,
Yellow

[yellow]

Morning to you Perry.

Thanks for the set of questions – they seem very comprehensive so I will work my way through them and hopefully I can be clear.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No – in direct experience there is no separate entity self, me or I at all, anywhere in any shape or form, and there never was. It’s still all rather bizarre  but I see that the self has really only ever been a thought construct which forms itself in relation to thoughts of fixed essence of self or other of which in direct experience there isn’t any – in direct experience it’s all just arising and passing away. Since so much attention and energy has gone into the thoughts over the years belief has formed as to their validity about reality but in direct experience reality is completely different – arising, passing…without beginning or end (because beginning or end that would imply essence and there aren’t any ‘essences’ anywhere to be found). ‘I’ no longer believe in the thought constructs that fabricate the self out of ‘no’ things.

In direct experience there was never a self, and there never will be a self though there is still the arising of I/other thought constructs which once seen are understood immediately as only thought constructs and not pertaining to reality of direct experience whatsoever.

The illusion of a past self are only thought constructs that arise in relation to images in the mind (colours, shapes, sounds) which form into falsely believed permanent existing realities – mother, countryside, last week. The illusion of future self are also thought constructs which seem to be based on a habit of planning (!) and associated feelings to do with desire for happiness, safety, survival for a falsely believed existing entity of ‘self’.

Direct experience which has no self, has neither past, present or future – ‘it’ can’t be grasped, caught or labled in any way.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now

I may end up repeating some of the above…

I understand now that the illusion of a separate self is falsely believed thoughts about falsely believed permanent entities. It begins on the basis (or condition) of raw experience which comes into consciousness/awareness and as it is recognised and labelled there comes a misinterpretation/an illusion of a fixed ‘it’ which also gives rise to an illusion of ‘I’ in relation to ‘it’ – thus separation/division occurs. So as much as anything ‘I’ is a relational illusion.

So an example ‘I hear car noise’ –raw experience of noise, recognised as noise and labelled as car noise, misinterpreted as a car noise as a solid fixed entity (this happens with lack of attention to or awareness of direct experience which actually is in constant arising, passing) and from which the final thought arises ‘I’ hear ‘car noise’ (fits into car noise categories of recognition rather than rain noise - based on an accumulation of ‘previous’ experiences, recognised, misinterpreted!).

Phew...interesting to try and articulate these new understandings, quite intense...so I will stop there for a little while and return later.

Gratefully...
Yellow

[yellow]

Hi Perry -

Another two questions answered -

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

(please assume that every I in the below has inverted comma’s around it!)

So how does it feel – it’s been quite an intense week since we started this dialogue on Monday – pretty much from the moment we kicked off (perhaps also just before with some fear arising), the intensity (felt physically / energetically) continues, not always pleasant and sometimes getting stuck, which has been unpleasant, and I also feel very tired (though that could also be a combination of other life factors) unless I can stay very present – so most at ease with this intense energy in meditation where it collects/aligns itself in some way when I can just rest peacefully…

Some unusual experiences since Thursday’s realisation – yesterday, at one point, disturbed by a question from someone while mediating I had what I can only describe as complete dissolution of everything except complete presence, and when spoken to had to really search (rather inadequately) for a ‘who’ and a ‘what’ and a ‘where’ in order to be able to respond and then getting very confused I couldn’t even remember enough to be able to reply to the question, until eventually all I could come out with was 'I dont remember'.

Also a sense of playing a game of life at the level of self /other – like watching a film but also participating in it as I get on with daily life (though generally with awareness of this) – sometimes there is a very strong sense of the ‘game’ and while it all feels rather absurd, it also feels light/freeing, though still deeply mysterious.

Definitely more presence in on-going direct experience and also before sleeping a wide-open very, peaceful calm awareness.

Overall it feels like a coming home, a sense of arrival at an understanding of what was mainly theoretical before (when I am reading about no-self now I nod in fundamental agreement). I have no doubt of the unreality of self – and that I can say that with conviction is what feels to be the most different from before the dialogue started.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

It was a brief experience that arose reading your sentence – “'I' is meaningless in the light of direct experience”. In fact I noticed the experience but had continued reading, and then I realised that that brief experience was in fact important and on returning to the sentence it dawned on me in a new way (not rationally based – an ah-ha moment) that direct experience and thinking about direct experience were in-fact two very different processes (I am not sure how to describe them)… I knew immediately that in direct experience I could completely trust that there was no self, only in direct experience was there no doubt. It is the thought process that doubts – like a circular / even self-enclosed system and is thus limited as well as deluded. So I can now say in full confidence in my direct experience there is no self.

It’s quite hard to describe, but now that I reflect on it, it feels related to an experience I had a long time ago and which in fact started me on the path of awareness/meditation when I realised that ‘I wasn’t aware of myself’- there was something so profound in that experience that at that point I knew the rest of my life was going to turn on this axis of becoming ‘aware of myself’

So Thursday it was like I was presented in a new way, beyond rational understanding with two options – the open-ended direct experience process or the limiting and deluded thought process and direct experience won :) Seemed like a no-brainer!

And now I understand there is no longer a ‘my-self’ to become ‘aware of’, there is just the flow of aware arising and passing experiences – without beginning, without end…though still coloured by habitual patterns…

More later...
Thanks
Yellow

[perrym]

Hi Yellow,

beautiful!

Thanks for taking the time to write with such clarity, I look forward to the next installment!

Very best wishes,

Perry

[yellow]

Hi Perry –

Thanks :) Final installment so…

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

No – from the perspective of direct experience I don’t decide, intend, choose, control events in life. From the perspective of direct experience there is no permanently existing ‘I’ to decide, intend etc. just the thought construct of and ‘I’ which can’t make any ‘thing’ happen, since there are no things.

Which leaves the mysterious process of experiences - though to call them ‘experiences’ in direct experience even that is too definite – all language must be used very provisionally. Even to call them conditioned, or arising and passing is too definite.

The immediate experience is altogether undefinable, ungraspable and unknowable…it’s empty of all concepts, pure. Also without beginning and without end which seems really relevant something to do with ‘everything’ existing always, completely…though this needs deeper investigation.

6) Anything to add?

As I said before the thoughts keep asking ‘why’ as perhaps they are want to do…and at times there is a sense of bamboozlement by this altogether undefinable selfless reality – a habitual attempt to grasp the graspless perhaps…a tension of sorts, despite the new understandings.

All the very best,
Yellow

[perrym]

Hi Yellow,

Very clear, thanks for that.

I don't think I have anything further to clarify, so I'll let some other guides take a look, they might have some more questions,

Best wishes

Perry

[perrym]

Hello again Yellow,

No questions from any other guides either,

It has been a privilege working with you, thank you!

The admins should be in touch with you in case you are interested in the various 'after care' groups that LU provides.

Very best wishes,

Perry