Anxiety, Doubt and Excitement, but I'd like to try

[nonaparry]

Very nice, Martin!!!

During the day in the office it seems to be a different world, little awareness, much on auto-pilot without being aware of the auto-pilot.

Excellent. Isn't that how all of Life operates? On auto-pilot without there even being an auto-pilot present? When you can, get out of doors into Nature. Look at the birds and plants living Life automatically without a pilot. This is your Life as well—only when an event happens "to you", mind slaps on an "I did it" after the fact. Check it! Walking happens: then "I did it". Working happens: then "I did it".

Right now when looking at the text, the I mentioned in there seems to be another I than the one sitting here, only a memory I that would take energy to reconstruct.

Yes; good noticing!! The "I" that wrote that is present NOW in memory.
Time is a funny thing; we experience a present moment which we call memory and then assume it was Real in some past. But in reality, we are experiencing the memory NOW. And what is a memory? A thought with an image. Here and now, your memory of the "I" that wrote is thoughts + images of writing. Check it! Take any memory you experience: what is it in the present moment but thoughts + images?

This time the experience felt much more direct.

Yes; you've reported Life happening as it occurred, without taking it to the realm of thinking, judging, adding an "I did it". This ability to experience sensations directly will come in handy in our investigations.

Without labeling the individual moments feel less connected or entangled.

Very nicely noticed! Without labeling the experience appears less smooth; there are gaps in the sensory experience which are not reflected when thinking about the experience. It's as if thinking plasters over the gaps to present a flawlessly smooth experience to cover up the lie that experience is continuous.

Labels cannot effect the original experience as they're already too late.

Exactly! Really good noticing here!

But they are experiences themselves that sometimes also trigger additional thoughts.

Yes; thoughts are experiences too. But notice that while the thought is a real sensory experience, the content of a thought is not real.
For example, think of a cup. See the cup clearly in your mind's eye: the shape, size, colour, what it's made of, any decoration, its capacity... The thought is real: you experience it. The content of the thought is a picture in your mind. The cup image is imaginary; you cannot drink from it.

Some thoughts point to objects in reality; others do not. If you think of a specific cup in your cupboard, that thought points to something real. If you think of a cup that you have not yet seen, perhaps a heart-shaped cup with two handles, that thought points to something imaginary.

Do this exercise: close your eyes, and with the finger of one hand, point to "I", "me", "self". When you're pointing, open your eyes and describe exactly what you see.

love
Nona

[Blacklight]

Hi Nona!

Excellent. Isn't that how all of Life operates? On auto-pilot without there even being an auto-pilot present? When you can, get out of doors into Nature. Look at the birds and plants living Life automatically without a pilot. This is your Life as well—only when an event happens "to you", mind slaps on an "I did it" after the fact. Check it! Walking happens: then "I did it". Working happens: then "I did it".

I didn't have the time to get out into nature yet, but I just did some walking meditation in my room. The walking really happened by itself, thoughts did not control it. There didn't even seem to be an effort to patch an "I did it" label on it. Awareness of the bodily sensations of walking was quite good, but somehow the legs felt a little strange, as if they weren't entirely part of my body. They also seemed to feel hollow although there were sensations from the inner muscles... There were a lot of thoughts of "my voice" telling Nona what's just happening and internal arguing about if this is real experience or if "I'm just imagining things that I'm expecting to occur".

Some thoughts point to objects in reality; others do not. If you think of a specific cup in your cupboard, that thought points to something real. If you think of a cup that you have not yet seen, perhaps a heart-shaped cup with two handles, that thought points to something imaginary.

This distinction between thoughts that point to something real and thoughts pointing to something imaginary seems to riddle the mind. Isn't the cup that I have seen in the cupboard yesterday about as real in this moment (only thought + image) as the imagined cup? Right now there's mental images of going into the kitchen and having a look if a cup that should be there is still there. I mean, it might have been broken by flat mate in which case it's now as unreal (only a mental image) as the heart-shaped cup. Is the distinction between real and imaginary only a matter of probabilities?
Confusion... Head buzzing...

Do this exercise: close your eyes, and with the finger of one hand, point to "I", "me", "self". When you're pointing, open your eyes and describe exactly what you see.

At first after closing the eyes the finger pointed at the upper chest. But awareness jumped from the chest to the head and "I moved" (it felt like an I) the finger to the chest. This was repeated with different body parts. Awareness jumped to the belly and the finger followed, to the shoulders and the finger followed. When I opened my eyes, the finger was pointing to my throat. This seemed to surprise the mind because the I at that moment felt located in the head and it seemed strange to presume it's in the throat.
Confusion...

Martin

[Blacklight]

Hi Nona,
I've just been for a long walk but today the mind seems foggy and awareness had a hard time keeping track of sensations. Walking happening without control is becoming clearer but thoughts containing I had a certain hang to them and caused a solid bodily feeling.

I'll keep on observing...
Martin

[nonaparry]

Hi Martin,

I was just replying when your last post came in.

The walking really happened by itself, thoughts did not control it.

Yes. As does breathing, seeing, driving, communicating, and even working at a job. If you stop to notice, there is no "self" present DOing any of this; it all just happens by itself as Life.

Awareness of the bodily sensations of walking was quite good, but somehow the legs felt a little strange, as if they weren't entirely part of my body.

Interestingly, our perception of our sensations is coloured by memory and by sight. We imagine we know the boundaries and placement of our bodies based on our memory of where we last saw it, and on present sight of it. But with eyes closed, and without reference to memory, the "boundaries" of our bodies become rather lost in a haze.
Close your eyes, and without referring to a memory of how tall you are, how big around, what the distance is from your neck to your ankles, check if through direct experience alone you can know your age, your height, your size and shape. Can you find a boundary between your skin and your clothes without looking or remembering?

There were a lot of thoughts of "my voice" telling Nona what's just happening and internal arguing about if this is real experience or if "I'm just imagining things that I'm expecting to occur".

Interesting. What do you mean by "real experience"?
By Direct Experience, I mean sensing, touching, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting. We can argue whether anything can be directly sensed before perception kicks in, but it's not necessary to this process. I am describing 'conventional reality' here, and am comfortable with knowing that it doesn't exist inherently.

Isn't the cup that I have seen in the cupboard yesterday about as real in this moment (only thought + image) as the imagined cup?

Which one can you fill and drink out of? That would be the one that is Real in conventional reality.

Is the distinction between real and imaginary only a matter of probabilities?

Probably.

At first after closing the eyes the finger pointed at the upper chest. But awareness jumped from the chest to the head and "I moved" (it felt like an I) the finger to the chest. This was repeated with different body parts. Awareness jumped to the belly and the finger followed, to the shoulders and the finger followed. When I opened my eyes, the finger was pointing to my throat. This seemed to surprise the mind because the I at that moment felt located in the head and it seemed strange to presume it's in the throat. Confusion...

Excellent. So this "I" that is so easy to believe one is, isn't 'fixed' at all. Yet we imagine that "I" is unchanging, inherent!
If "I" is not a fixed entity, and you can't even point to it successfully, what exactly is it?

I've just been for a long walk but today the mind seems foggy and awareness had a hard time keeping track of sensations.

Mind tends to be very I-dentified, and will play tricks to keep us from directly seeing the truth. Keep at it. Staying in direct experience is the shortest route to seeing through the illusion.

Walking happening without control is becoming clearer

Good.

but thoughts containing I had a certain hang to them and caused a solid bodily feeling.

Please list some of these "thoughts containing I" that cause "a solid bodily feeling." How does that work, in your experience?

Do keep observing. Especially, when there is a thought that "I" am being or doing something, Check whether there is an entity "I" present actually being or doing what is happening. LOOK around with the eyes in your head to catch "I" in the act!

love
Nona

[Blacklight]

Hi Nona,

I had a longer train ride today and did the exercise checking the volume and height of the body. With eyes closed it's hard to answer any of these questions. I couldn't feel head and feet at the same time and the rest of the body seemed missing completely. I also looked for a self whenever there was awareness of an I thought but there were only thoughts, sensations from the body and a feeling of solidity which probably is also just a bodily sensation. I couldn't detect the aliveness you mentioned in an earlier post, maybe it's more subtle than the other feelings.
When there is no awareness, life seems pretty normal, although in retrospect normality seems to be the autopilot...

I'm at a birthday party now but I'll try to find more time for reflection on Monday.

With warmth
Martin

[Blacklight]

Hi Nona,

the auto-pilot while talking is becoming clearer. Otherwise there was a lot of fear yesterday night. I woke up several times during the night with a shivering body. There still were no obvious insights into what fear the fear is of or what it is protecting. While walking home from the train station there were some moments when there was seeing without an I thought attaching to it immediately afterwards. Time seems less continuous which triggers more fear and unwell-being.

Martin

[nonaparry]

Dearest Martin,

Otherwise there was a lot of fear yesterday night. I woke up several times during the night with a shivering body. There still were no obvious insights into what fear the fear is of or what it is protecting. While walking home from the train station there were some moments when there was seeing without an I thought attaching to it immediately afterwards. Time seems less continuous which triggers more fear and unwell-being.

As much as possible, try not to fear Fear. Fear is our friend; it is a Protective device that aids us in many ways. It keeps us from inadvertently walking off precipices or petting a hungry lion.
But Fear also "protects" us from what is not dangerous; we get "protected" from our vision of a future, from making fools of ourselves, and from loss of love, approval and appreciation, all courtesy of Fear. And because there is an underlying belief that life without a Self is dangerous, Fear steps in to save "you" from it. But you never had a Self, ever; you've lived your entire life without one. Here is Fear protecting "you" from a thought. Silly old Fear!!

The insights of what Fear is "protecting" you from are not going to be "obvious" as in "on the surface". If you are a meditator, you might ask the question and then wait for an answer from within. Fear obscures what it is protecting us from so that we don't notice how foolish it is.

Check whether Fear is just a bodily sensation + a label "fear". We have sensations all the time, and immediately we judge them and label them, both positive and negative. How can you tell one sensation from another without their labels?? Check it.

If fear seems overwhelming, shift to direct experience and check the volume and height of the body. Check if you can identify the place where skin stops and clothing begins. If you are in direct experience, there are no thoughts. If there are thoughts, move back into sensation. In direct experience there is peace.

Let me know how this goes for you.
love
Nona

[Blacklight]

Hi Nona,

As much as possible, try not to fear Fear. Fear is our friend; it is a Protective device that aids us in many ways. It keeps us from inadvertently walking off precipices or petting a hungry lion.

Fear has been the main "theme" of my last meditation retreat. I started with a fear of fear, now I'm down to only fear and sometimes an aversion against it or its bodily signature.

But Fear also "protects" us from what is not dangerous; we get "protected" from our vision of a future, from making fools of ourselves, and from loss of love, approval and appreciation, all courtesy of Fear.
...
The insights of what Fear is "protecting" you from are not going to be "obvious" as in "on the surface". If you are a meditator, you might ask the question and then wait for an answer from within. Fear obscures what it is protecting us from so that we don't notice how foolish it is.

Yes, images of rejection of "me" or "my ideas" seem to come up rather frequently and solidify a sense of self. There were also some thoughts about "being alone" on this trip and "nobody understanding me".

But you never had a Self, ever; you've lived your entire life without one. Here is Fear protecting "you" from a thought. Silly old Fear!!

Silly old Fear :D Makes me smile every time I read it :D
Also, whenever I read "you never had a Self" there is an inner joy coming up which then turns into anticipation and then into craving.

Check whether Fear is just a bodily sensation + a label "fear".

I notice fear by several bodily sensations that occur together, the label "fear" and a predisposition towards "fearful" thoughts (mostly images in which someone is talking to me and spoken thoughts where someone is telling the future me off or rejecting it).

We have sensations all the time, and immediately we judge them and label them, both positive and negative. How can you tell one sensation from another without their labels?? Check it.

Ok, I checked it. Without labels sensations just appear and disappear. They have different "colors" or "textures" and tend to trigger automatic reactions if there is no/little awareness. Even without spoken labels there are often images arising with or shortly after bodily sensations, sometimes images of the body surface, sometimes like little fireworks that have about the felt volume of the sensations.

If fear seems overwhelming, shift to direct experience and check the volume and height of the body. Check if you can identify the place where skin stops and clothing begins. If you are in direct experience, there are no thoughts. If there are thoughts, move back into sensation. In direct experience there is peace.

Doubt, "Aren't thoughts a part of direct experience?", "But I can't turn off my thoughts", "But it's true, when I focus on the body, there's less thoughts".

I've been out in nature a little today and while sitting on a bench there was again this feeling/perception that the individual moments are rather fragmented and non-continuous. Awareness was quite high and thoughts about future and past were mostly seen as thoughts and vanished. Doubt, "life seems less real like that, like a daydream". It's quite a strange feeling...

There were also thoughts "if I could stop this process if I wanted" but it seems that this is on auto-pilot, too.

Dizziness, slight headache...

Nona, there is much gratitude for your patience and kind words!

Martin

[nonaparry]

Hi Martin!

I started with a fear of fear, now I'm down to only fear and sometimes an aversion against it or its bodily signature.

Why aversion? Fear is a label we slap on the experience of a sensation that we decide we don't want to have. It's only a sensation, and as I pointed out earlier, it can come in handy. What I recommend is sitting with any fear, looking at it clearly, and asking it what message it has for you.
Hi fear, old friend! Come on in and have a cuppa! What's the story? What are you doing lurking around mind today?

Yes, images of rejection of "me" or "my ideas" seem to come up rather frequently and solidify a sense of self.

They are only images; check it! An image is a picture inside a thought; it has no basis in reality. So you use your imagination to solidify a sense of something else imaginary. Why bother? None of it exists in reality; not the picture of rejection, and not the "self" you sense.

I notice fear by several bodily sensations that occur together, the label "fear" and a predisposition towards "fearful" thoughts (mostly images in which someone is talking to me and spoken thoughts where someone is telling the future me off or rejecting it).

I want you to pay close attention to these images you experience. They are pictures of something that is not happening in reality in this moment now. They are in your imagination.
Every time an image of them and you comes to mind, I want you to notice whether the action is actually happening Now in reality. Or is it just a movie playing in the mind?

"Aren't thoughts a part of direct experience?", "But I can't turn off my thoughts", "But it's true, when I focus on the body, there's less thoughts".

Sensing a thought IS part of direct experience; but the content of the thought is not!
You have a thought of rejection; the thought is real, but the rejection is only in your imagination.
It's true you cannot turn off thoughts; what you can do is shift focus away from the obsession with thought to what is being directly experienced NOW. If you are fully focused on sensation, there will be no thought. It takes practice to truly focus on physical sensation; have you done this in meditation?

while sitting on a bench there was again this feeling/perception that the individual moments are rather fragmented and non-continuous.

YES. And when you notice this, you can also notice that the function of thought is partly to smooth over the fragmented non-continuous experience to make it look flawless. But it's smoke and mirrors; it's a lie. Pay attention; notice the holes in experience. Notice that the thoughts that experience is seamless are lies.

There were also thoughts "if I could stop this process if I wanted" but it seems that this is on auto-pilot, too.

You and I have no control over the process, or any part of life. Check your day to day experience: is there anything that is not on auto-pilot?

love
Nona

[Blacklight]

Hello Nona,

in meditation I tried to especially integrate thought in order to become more aware of it. In some cases there is awareness of the content of thought being only a movie, but the cases when awareness is low seems to be sufficient to keep up the illusion of a self.
I'll try to shift the focus back into the body and see how it goes. Thoughts will come up anyway ;)

Have a good night!
Martin

[Blacklight]

Hi Nona,

things seem to be shifting slowly. The auto-pilot is observed in more occasions, when brushing teeth, when typing, when walking, mostly for simple bodily movements. But although those activities keep running by themselves, it feels as if the I has to initiate them. I think on a theoretical level I understand how the illusion of control works: There often is a visual thought picturing "me" doing something. This makes the body/unconscious try to fulfill this image. But before body/unconscious can react there is already a "I thought this" thought. So it seems as if the "I" that thought the thought also indirectly triggered the real movement/action although it just claimed the already existing thought.
Unfortunately I still haven't seen thoughts arise so the illusion stays intact.
You mentioned I should try to follow thoughts back from where they arise. Can you elaborate this a little further?
It seems that awareness already has to be "at the place" where the next thought arises in order to catch it arising?

Doubt, confusion...
Martin

[nonaparry]

Hi Martin,

it feels as if the I has to initiate them.

It feels as if. This "feels as if" is a clue that you are not directly experiencing this. Although because you use the word "feels" you make it sound like a sensation, in reality this is thought. "Feeling as if" happens in mind, not in direct experience. I urge you, as much as possible, to refer to your direct experience when inquiring into the truth of a "you".

I think on a theoretical level I understand how the illusion of control works: There often is a visual thought picturing "me" doing something. This makes the body/unconscious try to fulfill this image. But before body/unconscious can react there is already a "I thought this" thought. So it seems as if the "I" that thought the thought also indirectly triggered the real movement/action although it just claimed the already existing thought.

In my direct experience, reality is actually the opposite: Life just happens, and then mind attaches an "I did it" to the event, after the fact. The illusion of control is in thought, not in activity. Check it! As you go through your day, notice the sequence as it occurs.

Unfortunately I still haven't seen thoughts arise so the illusion stays intact.
You mentioned I should try to follow thoughts back from where they arise. Can you elaborate this a little further?
It seems that awareness already has to be "at the place" where the next thought arises in order to catch it arising?

You're not actually going to see where thoughts arise. I asked you so that you might notice that thoughts just arrive, and we don't know from where. Thoughts are mind-weather. Like clouds, they show up or they don't.

If you will respond to my post of 10 April, I will have a better idea of where you are now.

love
Nona

[Blacklight]

Hi Nona,

It feels as if. This "feels as if" is a clue that you are not directly experiencing this. Although because you use the word "feels" you make it sound like a sensation, in reality this is thought. "Feeling as if" happens in mind, not in direct experience. I urge you, as much as possible, to refer to your direct experience when inquiring into the truth of a "you".

Thinking "what shall I respond", embarassment, short pictures of teachers from primary school, an image of a situation where a small me looks up to the teacher, feeling insufficient, "I just want to do it right", confusion, internal arguing how to best get back on track, thinking "do I translate correctly what I want to say", fingers touching the keyboard, typing automatically, thinking "there is a base level of awareness with most of what I'm doing now. This was not the case before.", rembering the work day, "Hmm, during the day there were quite many situations where there was not even a base level of awareness", fine shaking running from the belly into the arms and back, pressure on the teeth, an image of teeth clenched, fingers touching the keyboard, typing autonomously, only short spoken thoughts and the fingers go off to type them. A feeling of contraction in the belly, fine shaking, thinking "something wants out", half-spoken thoughts that don't get finished, confusion, fingers resting on the keyboard, slight headache, "I need to direct my attention in the right way", fingers resting, fine shaking, thinking "it feels like something wants out", "Nona said when I say feel that's not direct experience", fear, "I don't understand what I should do exactly", "I can't do anything because it all runs on autopilot", "Nona said I shouldn't focus on thought so much. But thought is what is happening right now", pictures of what Nona might look like, Nona becoming angry, images of my dad getting angry because I didn't understand and do what he wants, dad shouting at me, seeing laptop screen, thinking "shouldn't I try to see behind the I? I'm just writing down what's happening, not doing any looking behind any curtains or anything. Is this right?", fingers resting on the keyboard, "still no deep insights or anything", image of angry Nona, "she will be quite annoyed by me", "annoyed by whom?", feeling skin in the face, watching breathing happen automatically, "is there an I?", doubt, "I should stop writing now, Nona won't be keen on reading every little thing that's happening. She wants to see that I am seeing behind the illusion.", "is there an I?", fingers resting on keyboard, sensations from the body surface, quick mental images of the body surface, mental image of body being black inside, "vacuum", "does emptiness have something to do with the body feeling empty?", doubt, "should I delete all that blabber?", feeling facial skin, image of a head, feeling lips, image of lips, feeling arms, image of arms, stretching the spine, "that happened automatically", "when shall I stop writing?", "maybe it is helpful", seeing, "Hmm, is there an I claiming the seeing?", pressure, image of clenched teeth, image of taking another sitting position, "no automatic movement now", "this doesn't seem at all like seeing through any illusion.", thinking "should I ask Nona if it makes sense to try questioning via chat so I can't chase down the wrong path so easily?"

I want you to pay close attention to these images you experience. They are pictures of something that is not happening in reality in this moment now. They are in your imagination.
Every time an image of them and you comes to mind, I want you to notice whether the action is actually happening Now in reality. Or is it just a movie playing in the mind?

Most of the time when mental images come up they're seen as thoughts. Some thoughts return more often. Looking at those thoughts, they seem to be the ones that are "believed". Thought "Is believing maybe nothing more than just repeating images? What else constitutes believing?". Right now I can't find anything else that makes a thought being believed than the frequency with which it occurs and maybe the intensity (volume for spoken, colors and size for images). Thinking "what implications would this have if believing just is thoughts that occur more often?".
Dizziness, head pulsating, seeing looked strange for a moment, same image but a slight distortion in the 3-dimensionality, seen image looks 'flat', headache, tension in the neck, teeth clenched slightly. Despite that a little feeling of peacefulness. Watching the body do some things automatically. Started a program for work that needs to run for a while. Thoughts drifted off to work stuff. "It all happened automatically".
Some emotional mental images leave a bodily trace (adrenaline, tension) even after the image itself is gone. Sometimes the image cannot even be recalled but the body is still reacting. Often images of Nona reading what I am writing and judging it, becoming angry with the writer. "Am I a little hyper-sensitive?".
Re-reading what you asked. I haven't really answered your question. Yes, the images are just mind movies. This is seen most of the time.

Sensing a thought IS part of direct experience; but the content of the thought is not!
You have a thought of rejection; the thought is real, but the rejection is only in your imagination.
It's true you cannot turn off thoughts; what you can do is shift focus away from the obsession with thought to what is being directly experienced NOW. If you are fully focused on sensation, there will be no thought. It takes practice to truly focus on physical sensation; have you done this in meditation?

I have done this on retreat but never got so focused on sensation that thoughts fell away for longer than maybe 10 seconds. I will keep on trying.

You and I have no control over the process, or any part of life. Check your day to day experience: is there anything that is not on auto-pilot?

There was no perception of something that did not happen automatically. What changes is awareness of the auto-pilot. When there is awareness the auto-pilot is quite clear, when there is none then everything runs "as usual" and only in hindsight it is seen that there was no controlling of anything.

I'm off to sleep, have a good night!
Martin

[nonaparry]

Dearest Martin,

A feeling of contraction in the belly, fine shaking, thinking, half-spoken thoughts that don't get finished, confusion, fingers resting on the keyboard, slight headache, fingers resting, fine shaking, thinking

These ARE direct experience. They are sensation, something experienced directly rather than thought about.

"Nona said when I say feel that's not direct experience"

No, sweetheart. That is not what Nona wrote. Please read my words more carefully; I am VERY careful in what I write, and hope you will read the actual words.
You wrote "it feels as if the I has to initiate them" and I took exception to "feels as if". That is not happening in sensation; it is happening in thought. I invite you to check it! Compare this "feeling" with those listed above. What does "as if" feel like? Does "as if" feel like a contraction? shaking? the touch of a keyboard? No, "as if" isn't a sensation at all; it is a metaphor, a linguistic device, meant to suggest that one thing is LIKE another. But it is not a feeling at all.

Notice how easily language trips us up! We say "I drove to the store", but is that what happened? No. What happened is body got into the car and buckled up, key was put into the ignition, car was started, driving happened. At no point did body move out of the driver's seat to give way to an "I" that did the driving. We say "I am breathing", but is it true? Is there an "I" that is somehow attached to this physical body that pumps the lungs, pulling air in and then expressing it, directing the bloodstream to take up oxygen and distribute it around the body? No; breathing happens automatically, SO automatically, as a matter of fact, that it happens even after one holds his breath long enough to faint, and even when "I" is asleep.

Life happens. Driving happens, walking happens, working happens, and then mind attaches an "I did it" to the events. But that doesn't make it so. Language is not as concrete as we pretend it is.

"Nona said I shouldn't focus on thought so much. But thought is what is happening right now"

Thinking IS happening right now. And we directly experience thinking. You can indicate this by writing "thinking is happening". The content of the thought is not directly experienced. When I ask you to think of a cup, you cannot pour tea into that imaginary cup, nor can you drink from it. An image is imaginary.
I want you to shift your focus away from thought because you will never think your way to seeing through the illusion of a separate self, and I am assuming that because you are here, that is what you want.
It can't be done in thought; you will have to directly experience that there is no entity "self" in reality. So I urge you to focus on sensation, so keenly, that thoughts don't penetrate. And when a thought is noticed, ignore it and bring focus back to the physical.

I suggest you get out of doors into nature. Feel the sun on your skin, the contact of feet on the ground. Notice walking, seeing, hearing happening without a walker, a hearer, a see-er anywhere. Look at the birds, notice whether they have an "I" attached to them as they go about their business. And LOOK! Look everywhere for this elusive "I" that you think has to initiate anything. Do you see an Initiator anywhere at all?

She wants to see that I am seeing behind the illusion.

No; she wants to see what is really going on in your direct experience in the moment. You won't see behind the illusion in thought.

"this doesn't seem at all like seeing through any illusion."

No; there is no seeing through the illusion in thought. It has to be seen through in direct experience.

"should I ask Nona if it makes sense to try questioning via chat so I can't chase down the wrong path so easily?"

There is no wrong path. Just, please, focus on direct experience and do the exercises I set you. Do them more than once, even.

Watching the body do some things automatically.

What things does body not do automatically? In your direct experience?

images of Nona reading what I am writing and judging it, becoming angry with the writer.

I am here to point, not to judge. Please notice what exactly is doing the judging.

Re-reading what you asked. I haven't really answered your question.

Good. Notice when this happens. Mind leads you a merry chase to distract you from really LOOKing, in your direct experience, at the fact that there is no separate entity "you".

Yes, the images are just mind movies.

Indeed. What happens in thought is mind movies. This is why it is necessary to focus somewhere else to see behind the movie screen. The somewhere else is direct experience.

I have done this on retreat but never got so focused on sensation that thoughts fell away for longer than maybe 10 seconds. I will keep on trying.

Good. The key is not focusing on "thoughts falling away", because that is focusing on thought. Instead, focus on the sensation of bum on chair, feet on floor; focus with eyes closed on finding the exact boundary between skin and clothes. Without reference to memory, can you tell from sensation alone how tall the body is, what is its volume, what is the exact distance from jaw to ankles? Then move focus to sensations of touching and being touched. If you have a pet, focus on sensations of stroking it. Get familiar with sensation, with direct experience, so that when a thought comes you notice it is a thought.

There was no perception of something that did not happen automatically. What changes is awareness of the auto-pilot. When there is awareness the auto-pilot is quite clear, when there is none then everything runs "as usual" and only in hindsight it is seen that there was no controlling of anything.

Excellent. Keep noticing!

love
Nona

[Blacklight]

Hi Nona,

today while on the train I did the exercise of checking the body with eyes closed. In some occasions the images that usually follow a bodily sensation were not there and there was little/no spatial orientation in the sensations themselves. After having watched this for a while, there was more and more inner flickering and the tendency of the mind to wander increased. There were also thoughts that "something wants to hide something".
After the exercise awareness of the auto-pilot was quite present for maybe half an hour. Everything seemed a little strange and detached in that time and there were relatively few thoughts. At some point awareness subsided and the mind started going into the busy loop and there was a lot of monkey mind future thought.

If that's OK I'd like to stick with the body check exercise for a while, it feels simple and direct and keeps the mind from spinning too much.

Good night!
Martin